A little question for everyone ... and a tad more ...

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
1

Assalaamu 'alaikum bhaio aur behaano,

I see that there are many people here with a good command of the Urdu language Mash’Allaah. This is most noticeable for someone like myself who’s Urdu is not so good.

I was therefore wondering, does the fluency and understanding of the language come as a result of spending more time in Pakistan, or can it be as influential if you’re living abroad?

Also, just to get an idea, how long has everyone spent in Pakistan?

As for me, although i love Pakistan ever so much (the country; the language; the culture), i’ve lived all my years in Europe. I’m arguably the most fond of Pakistan out of all the Pakistanis i know who were born and raised in England. Yet i’ve only visited Pakistan once (as a 6 year old), and due to some unfortunate situations and scenarios i have been unable to since. The emotions sometimes filter through, as i find the heart sometimes crying out, while longing to visit that land, Pakistan.

… but Insha’Allaah, some day soon.

Any comments are more than welocome and highly appreciated.

wassalaam,
kindest regards

[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited May 20, 1999).]

2

Dear Hasnain,

Urdu is the second language of England. What are you complaining about ma' man? One out of 4 physicians in England is of Indian Sub-Continent decent. England's healthcare system will collapse if it were not for Desi Doctors.

I know 3rd generation Gujrati Indians who were brought into the Caribbean by the English in the 19th century. They still speak Gujrati as their 2nd language. Some also speak Hindi, but not a great majority. Language is passed on from generation to generation whether one lives in Pakistan or England.

I can understand and appreciate your longing for Pakistan, your homeland. Many of us share your sentiments. I live in New York, and there is a big Pakistani community that keeps my interest current. One good thing about living away from Pakistan is that you get to appreciate it more than if you lived there. In Pakistan, things can get to you after a while.

I would strongly recommend that you take a trip to Pakistan. If you don't take a trip there at least once every other year, you will not go to Paradise (if you believe in Janat and Dozak). I have learnt from my interaction with English Pakistanis how much they are different from Pakistani Pakistanis. It is natural that Pakistanis born and raised in other countries will adopt some of the local customs and cultures, but hopefully retain some of the values passed on to them by their parents. In turn, they will pass those on to their kids.

Good luck with your quest to learn Urdu (don't worry if you don't become fluent. Not many Pakistani are fluent in Urdu either. It just happens to be the official language and is not spoken popularly outside of Karachi and other big cities. It is however, a wonderful language, rich in literature both prose and poetry). Even "tutee bhanee" (broken) Urdu is not bad. Trust me. It sounds "beautiful" even when not spoken correctly. Just a word of advise, please don't learn Urdu from a Pathan, or you will be calling you Mother a Father and vice versa. For example: Oye Abba Jee, Tum yay kiya KARTEE ho?

Cheers. Give my love to English Girls. I miss English Pubs!! And English Rock. And English Fish and Chips.

3

Hasnain

Like yourself, I was born in the UK and lived abroad almost all my life. I only lived in Pakistan from 84-86, although we visited frequently. But I had a good command of urdu before ever going moving to Pakistan. I learnt urdu because my parents insisted that we speak urdu at home. Even though the siblings mostly communicated in english, our parents almost always spoke in urdu. We used to have good family discussions and then my parents gave us urdu children’s magazines, books and all. Consequently, my command of urdu was better than kids who grew up in Pakistan.

I used to like to go to Pakistan, but recently each trip there saddens me more. I recall it as it was when I lived there and miss it. I wonder sometimes what has changed more, myself or the country. My desire to visit Pakistan has been decreasing with each trip and was it not for family there, I would probably go less frequently. My parents are moving back to the UK soon, and after that, I doubt that I will visit Pakistan except every 5-6 years. I love our language and our culture and enjoy spending time with other Pakistanis, which I am able to do here. I cant explain the strange sense of loss I feel when I see some of the familiar places deteriorate day by day...

4

Problems and frustrations aside, Pakistan is the best country to live in. It just a place that you could goto and say, "This is my country" "This is my land."

I plan to retire in Pakistan, if I get to live that long! :)

5

Salam Hasnain bhai

Interesting question. Well I was born in England and have lived here all my life. I have never really lived in Pakistan but go there every year for a holiday. However I will say that my urdu is good because my parents don't let me speak to them in english and after a fairly good grounding from them I furthered my interest in urdu by reading papers and magazines and writing letters and now my urdu is very good. What I learnt form my frequent visits to Pakistan (where in my area urdu is not spoken that much) was how to speak Hindko which is a form of Punjabi. And that I owe to my visits to Pkaistan as i have become very fluent in Hindko over the last few years

Anyway I hope I have at least partly answered your question

Take Care Ciau

S

6

Salaam Hasnain

Main bhi bataooN????

Lekin wait Ghalib jee bohut khoob Allah aap ko laaambii zindagi de aur aap ke pote potiyaan aap ke paas Pakistan visit ke liya aaein, aur Dada jaan se maze maze ki kahaniyaan sunein Amen :)

To Hasnain jee ham born to DK mein hue the but zindagi ke chand saal Pakistan bhi guzaar chuke hain :)I think meri Urdu theek thaak hai, reason yeh hai ke ham urdu books bohut paRhte hain, pehle home work etc. ki wajah se sirf summer main paRhne ki ijaazat thi ab khuli chuti hai :)
Wise to meri punjabi bhi bohut achi hai - aur honi bhi chahiye ghar mein bolte jo punjabi hi hain, but siblings danish mein baat kerte hain matlab aapis mein.

7

Salaam,

NY Ahmadi,

I'm sorry if i didn't make myself clear. I do speak Urdu, as i've also been bought up with the language and Pakistani customs Alhamdulillaah. It's just that my Urdu is not as good as some of the people on this site, particularly when it comes to some more difficult words.

Oh, and not all Pathaans speak the way you say they do ... a lot of it is a stereo type.

Dozak and Janat? Forgive me, but what has that to do with Pakistan? You make Pakistan sound like Stonehenge, a place of pilgrimage!

Fraudz bhai,

It was nice to read your response. Similarly as yourself, my parents insisted that we speak in Urdu, and my brother and myself communicate in English with one another. Incidentally, my parents between themselves speak in Punjabi.

Yes, i have also heard that Pakistan is not what it used to be, although for me it's difficult to analyse.

By the way, where in England did you live, might i ask?

Ghalib bhai,

I'm not sure if it is the best country to live in, although i can imagine it would be rather nice, and i would also consider it strongly, but before i retire, at a younger age. There are also other Muslim countries i feel the same about.

There is always that danger of becoming nationalist for all the wrong and unIslamic reasons, from which i seek refuge in Allaah.

Wassalaam
kind regards

[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited May 21, 1999).]

8

Well Thankyou for completely ignoring mine and Sabah's reply

No problem...Khush rahein Allah aap ko bhi hum sab ke saath apni amaan mein rakhe

khudaHafiz

S

9

Salaam

Shabnam ghusa nako jee, acha bacha hai, jab ham likh rahe honge na tab woh bhi likh rahe honge is liye dekha nahin hoga, aur phir waqt ki kammi..samjha karo na :)

Waise main ne aap ki post paRhi hai, to aap hindko bol leti hain, main ne Maree ein logon ko bolte suna tha..cute zuban hai, agar waqt ijaazat de hammein bhi sikha dein :)

Hasnain Pakistan is the best country to live in, simply b`cuz woh hammara mulq hai, duniya mein one and only jee, aur sab muslim counties ki ahmeiyat apni jagah, lekin apni cheez apni hoti hai :)

W'salaam
Saba

[This message has been edited by sabah (edited May 21, 1999).]

10

Sabah jee Assalamoalaikum

Kesi Hain Aap

Vese jo hindko maree mein bolee jaati hai vo to meri samajh mein bhi nahin aati. Hindko ki bhi bohat si variations hain na jee

Aap kyaa seekhna chaahein gi. Vese aap punjabi bolti hain is liye Hindko bolna aap ke liya koi khaas masla nahi hoga. Bas Aap bags pack karein aur aa jaein mere saath. Shaid summer mein main Pakistan ka chakkar lagaoon gi is lye aap bhi saath chalein. A month or so in the NWFP aur hamaare ilaqay ki hava lage gi to khud bakhud hinko far far bolne lagein gi

Aur sunaein kese mizaaj hain

Ijaazat

Shabnam

11

Ufff mujhe maloom hota ke aap itne kaam ki ‘cheez’ hoo to aap se pehle hi baat ker leti :slight_smile:
Summer mein main bhi ja rahi hoon, and Abbu jee pe zoor bhi dal rahi hoon ke aap ka ilagah dikhne ka waqt nikaalna hai, but apni daal galti hui nazar nahin aa rahi

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

lagta hai saari duniya ki shadiyan is summer mein ho jaein gi :slight_smile:

Yoon karein aik thread open karein mein achi student hooN, roz waqt pe aaya karooN gi :slight_smile:

W’salaam
Saba

12

What do you mean lagta hain sab logon ki shaadian is summer mein ho jaengi? I have no such plans.....are u getting married this summer?????????????

I will open a thread but I am leaving this job next friday so I won't be on the web any longer after that - not for a while anyway.

Okay chat to you in a bit

Shabnam

13

Shabnam behaan,

I'm dreadfully sorry for not replying earlier, that's because i only just read your responses.

As Saba jee said, i was in the middle of typing, and something came up so i had to dissapear. Also i'm a little slow at typing right now - subhaan'allaah, can only use one hand, as the other is out of action for a while.

Saba jee aur Shabnam jee,

mei Insha'Allaah phir sai jawaab dhoun gah, phaoran jab waqt mile.

uh oh! Boss aa rahai hain, mujhe ijaazat dhejeeyei gah ...

wassalaam,
kind regards

14

Hasnain jee

Sorry . It's my fult I should have thought and waited. Sorry to hear that your other hand is out of action hope it gets better soon

Boss Aagayee hai aap ki - don't worry I have that problem too

Take Care

Ciau

Shabnam

15

Assalaamu 'alaikum,

Omeed hai ke sab khariat sei hain. Aap sab ke sawaal mujhe khushi hooe par kar aur bohot dilchaspee ke saath parhai.

Shabnam jee,

It's neat that you read Urdu newspapers and magazines. Although at a young age mam'aa encouraged us (even forced sometimes) to do the same, when i grew up i began slacking in learning the language. Now i find that my Urdu is a little weak, but i love watching Pakistani dramas. Although my parents are Punjabi (although my mother's background is from Makbouza), i hadn't heard of Hindko until you mentioned it. Is it widely spoken?

And Jazaak'Allaah khair for wishing my hand better.

** sabah jee **,

kya mei waaquei acha 'bacha' houn? Khair, meri oumar tho aap sab loghon se barri ho ghee ... na jaanei kya keeya jae agar abi thak bacha houn.

Aap ko ijazat tho naheen chaeye is guftagoo mei daakhil honai kee. Aap kyoun naheen bathain? Waise be mujhe kouch aas tha, ke jo logh is dahagei ko respond karein gae, oun mei se theen, aap aur Fraudia bhai aur iqrabahabi hon gae.

Saba jee aap bilqul sahee ka raheen hain, ke sab musalmaan molquon ki ahmeiyat apni jagah, aur apni cheez apni hoti hai. Leiken mere khwaash aur du'aa hai, kisi din, jon se be Muslim country mei jaen, aise masoos ho ga jaisey apne hai ... sab ral mil kar rahain gae, jahan se be hon aur jis rang ke be hon. Aakhir, hum sab Baba Aadam (alayhi salaam) ke oulaad ke hain. Aik baath hai, jo arraam aur sakoon Madeenah mai miltha hai, wo kahain be naheen ... Pakistan mei be naheen.

Maghar mai maantha houn, yakeenan, Pakistan sei pyaar aur mohabat karnee chaeyei, kyoun keh isi Mulaq kee waja sei bohot se Musalmaan, since 1947, doushmanon se bachey howai hain Alhamdulillaah. Aur hamara mohal, zabaan, libaas, aur culture is the most respectable, when compared to many around the globe.

Shabnam jee aur Saba jee, take care ...

wassalaam,
kindest regards

[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited May 21, 1999).]

16

Hasnain Jee

Yes Hindko is a widely spoken language in the North West Frontier Region of Pakistan along with Pashto. I wish I could speak Pashto as well. My mother speaks pashto but never taught us how to speak the language and to this day I still have a go at her for not teaching us. But InshAllah when I go to settle down in Pakistan I wil definitely try and learn it

Okay Then

Nice Talking to you

Shabnam

Sabah aap kaha chali gayee hain? You Haven't answered my question Summer mein kis ki shaadi hai???????????

17

Shabnam jee yahein par hoon, posts paRh rahi thi, Aji shaadi kis ki to aik meri behen ki, aik mere cuzin ki aik meri female cuzin ki, aik mere mamoun ki, aik meri behen ke dewar ki, aik meri Ammi ki cuzin ki beti ki aur aik cuzin ki cuzin ke bete ki

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif

Ab gino kul mila ke kitne ghar aabaad hone jaa rahe hain :slight_smile:

Hasnain jee
Dekh lein aap ki umeed pe poore utre hain na ham :)Yeh mera fav. forum hai, lekin yahan itni chelal pehel nahin hoti to age peeche bhi chale jaate hain :slight_smile:

Ahem to aap ki umer ham sab se baRi ho gi jee jee aur mujhe to aap ke angootha choosne ki awaaz yahan tak aa rahi hai :slight_smile:

Aap ka Dream khoobsoorat hai, lekin kya kijiye…Mujhe Pakistan se jitni muhabat hai, shayed kisi bhi aur jagah se nahin :slight_smile:

Aur haan aap agar urdu post likhte rahe na to aap ki urdu bhi insha allah improve ho jae gi

W’salaam
Saba

18

Masha allah Saba jee

Yahan to Shaadian hi shaadian hain. Lagta hai aap ka trip to bare hi mazey ka guzre ga

Yaar humare mamoo ki bhi shaid shadi hogi lekin filhaal mera jaan confirm nahi hua hai
Kuch masroofiat yahaan par bhi sambhaalni hain

You're really lucky it will be loads of fun attending so many weddings in one go- btw are u really serious? Kyaa waqai mein ek saath itni shaadian ho rahi hain aap ke gharane mein

Acha je better get back to work

Shabnam

19

Hasnain

Assalam Alaikum.

I lived in London, actually the family home is still there and my brothers are still in london.
Parents moved to Pakistan since dad is working on some world bank contracts there and
plans on moving to UK in the next few years.

My home is in southeast London, and back when I was at uni, I used to come back quiet often 2-3 times a year, now with work and all it is limited to once a year.

20

Salaam,

saba jee,

Ye mera be favourite forum hei. Religious forum be acha hai, leiken wahan kabi kouch zyada jagra hota hai. Agar Qur'aan ya Sunnat kee baath be kar jaen aur sabooth be pesh karaen, koi logh thayaar be naheen hothey baath maan ne ke leeyai.

Ab hum bohot burrey ho chukai hain. Humarey mai himat naheen rahee jagar ne ke leeyei. smile

Acha, tho wahan tak angoota choosne kee awaaz aa rahee hai ... angoota hai, ya haathi ka trunk hai?

Mujhe be bohot mohabat hei Pakistan sei ... aap ko mei kya kya bathaon? maghar is england kee 'backward society' mei passa hoowa houn.

Aap ko bohot mubarak ho ithnee khandaani shadiyon ka. Allaah mia sab shadiyon ko kaamyaab kare, aur aap sab ko khush rakhain.

Shabnam jee,

Merbani shukriya roshni dawanei kee. Humarai be nazdeekee dhost Pathaan hain ... bohot Azeez hain, but thanks for letting me know about Hindko. I've actually chosen my nick, 'Hasnain' after their adorable son Masha'allaah.

I think it's always an advantage to learn as many languages as one can. My uncle was just about to teach me Pushto, but then had to return to Peshawar.

Mene Ammi jaan se kaafi marthaba kaha hai, ke mujhe lagtha hai mere khoon mai be kisi pataan ke nasal hai (umm ... not sure if i said that right), maghar Ammi jaan haans thee hain.

Mr Fraudi bhai

May i ask where in south east London you lived? And whereabouts do your brothers reside?

Are you planning to visit London in the near Future yourself?

Acha phir, mei chaltha houn. Aap logh apna khyaal rakyeh gah, and have a pleasant weekend ... wherever you are.

Wassalaam,
kind regards

[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited May 21, 1999).]