I found it very interesting short speech.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9031181739160070561
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam
the Maulana is on dope.
According to him the only thing that nullifies one's Islam is rejecting the Prophethood of Muhammad (sas), and he ignored the tonnes of other AYAAS OF THE QURAN, which explain how a muslim can become a kaafir, even though he acknowledges Muhammad (sas) as a Messenger and Prophet.
This why you shouldnt go around listening to every other desi scholar...
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam
whatever,
But I liked his sense of tolerating other sects in islam.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam
I think people who spend their life trying to DEFINE people as Muslim or otherwise are going against the spirit of Islam itself. Islam isnt about kicking people out, its about bringing people together.
Your right we shouldnt listen to every scholar, but the ones we shouldnt be listening to are the ones that seek to divide people.
This scholar seems to me to be very much a positive influence in a sea of idiots and hate mongerers.
People seem to find it easier to ignore people with positive messages because its simply easier to seperate people then actually respect them and their differences.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam
Yep… Very good thing.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam
One thing I agreed with him was that whatever belief one has about Ashabas 
, the main factor is what does one think about the Holy Prophet :saw:…He says that despite Shias hating and cursing the Ashabas is concerned, it does not in any way annulls their faith or puts them outside the fold of Islam…
Their may be other beliefs of theirs which may nullify their faith (according to our beliefs) but the Moulana didn’t go there…The topic was the belief in the Prophethood of the Holy Prophet :saw: and all Shias do believe that, and strictly speaking, that in no way excludes them Islam…
He also emphasizes the fact that they are trapped by their beliefs just as we are…Their scholars have written books which they are bound to follow just as we are bound to follow ours…One thing which he says is that them cursing and abusing the Sahaba may fall under ill manners amd ignorance, but it in no way makes them a Kafir…Speaking on this point only, I agree with him…They may curse the people I love but I can in no way call them Kafirs…
The moulana preached a lot of tolerance, a little too much…He advocated even ignoring many Barelvi rites and rituals on the basis that they too are trapped by their own books and that they consider many Bidaats to be good Bidaats…However, if going by this moulana sahib’s view is concerned, then one would be forced to abandon the Quran and Sunnah for the sake of tolerance…And I as a Muslim, am not comfortable in the slightest of straying from the Quran and Sunnah and accepting that which is not in the Quran or Sunnah…
Moulana sahib tried his best to preach tolerance and I agree with a majority of his points…However, when it comes to abandoning Quran or Sunnah anyplace for the sake of tolerance, then I cease to agree with him…
Moulana sahib was unanimous in dissing the Ahmadis in not so many words and plainly called them Kaffirs because of their beliefs…
A agree with him on many points which he makes very clear and without disagreeing hold back on many…Unlike you brother, I do not consider elderly people to be on dope for their beliefs, specially if they hold as much knowledge as this Moulana sahib did and expressed…
Purely for reasons of my own lack of knowledge…Maybe you had a valid reason for calling him to be on dope…Wallahoalam…
Overall, the whole speech was based on general knowledge of Islam over which one cannot form an opinion about someone’s views…
Maybe if we heard more of his speeches regarding specific Aqaaids, he would have something else to say…This speech alone, though being generally informative, was not specific to certaon points…Maybe if we listen to more of what he has to say we’ll know…
A Must watch for all shia/sunni(barelvis, deobandis, ahl-e-hadiths)
AsSalam o Alaykum,
Please watch Moulana Ishaq's video on Google's video
(video(dot)google(dot)com, the system doesn't let me put the link).
Just search "Moulana Ishaq" and watch the smaller of the two videos (28 mins.)
It's really a blessing to have people like him in this era when everyone is trying to create disunity among the Ummah and it's only because of people like him that we have some hope of peace in our part of the world.......................................please spare some time to watch this video and spread the word around..............................you would be fascinated to hear the views on the unity among shias/sunnis/hanafi/deobandi/ahl-e-hadith ............................................................I guarantee you that you would have never listened anything of such a great quality. If you don't trust me then just watch first 5-8 minutes of the video and judge by yourself
WaSalam,
Re: A Must watch for all shia/sunni(barelvis, deobandis, ahl-e-hadiths)
Very interesting! Especially when he mentions about the mullahs. 
Reminds me of Kable Sadiq’s lectures. Was worth my 28 minutes. Thanks a lot for sharing. Just one question, would you be aware where this is taking place?
This is one lecture guppies here should listen to.
Re: A Must watch for all shia/sunni(barelvis, deobandis, ahl-e-hadiths)
I watched one of them a few days ago and in my opinion, Maulana Ishaq is one learned scholar who we could learn alot from. He is very confident and secure enough in his own beliefs, to be able to have such a positive attitude and see beyond the differences. There is none of the usual insecurity or narrow mindedness about him, he is able to see from a different points view. We definately need more scholars like him.
Re: A Must watch for all shia/sunni(barelvis, deobandis, ahl-e-hadiths)
It has been posted before…This should be merged…
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam
According to him the only thing that nullifies one's Islam is rejecting the Prophethood of Muhammad (sas), and he ignored the tonnes of other AYAAS OF THE QURAN, which explain how a Muslim can become a kaafir, even though he acknowledges Muhammad (sas) as a Messenger and Prophet.
This why you shouldnt go around listening to every other desi scholar...
Molana is on dope or not that yet to be determined but you are for sure.
I have been reading the same Quran for years (Alhumdulilah) and I am aware which Ayaas you might refer to, but oh You Doffs! Quran has Text with spirit and both can not be seen, seek, understand or judged in isolation from one or the other. One can read the "Text" with little effort by learning Arabic but understanding the "Spirit" of the "Kalaam-Allah (SWT)" part comes only from Allah in terms of "hadaya" and can take years of "Zuhud" and NO one can claim to be on "hadaya" more then any other and only Allah (SWT) knows the best.
Today "Umah" is divided and suffering in shame because Doffs like you just read the "Text" and start follow the line which understanding have you forgotten Quran directly ask every one of us to do the "Tafakroon" and "Tadaberoon" have you done that if you would have you would have not commented as you did.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance… It is the illusion of Knowledge”
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
With all the Zuhud that's being exhibited in this thread...has anyone even bothered checking what the early generation scholars had to say about the Shias?
Surely they must have more 'Ilm and Zuhud than this dude over here...
[quote]
What Scholars Say About Shi'a Sect?
Early Scholars
- Imaam ash-Shaafi`ee
On one occasion ash-Shaafiee said concerning the Shiites, "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidite Shiites." [Ibn Taymeeyah, Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah, 1/39]ites, because they invent Hadeeths and adopt them as part of their religion." [Ibid, p. 38]
On another occasion he said, "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except the Raafidite Shi
*Imaam Abu Haneefah
*
It was reported that often Abu Haneefah used to repeat the following statement about the Shi`ites, "Whoever doubts whether they are disbelievers has himself committed disbelief."Imaam Maalik
Once Maalik was asked about them and he replied, "Do not speak to them nor narrate from them, for surely they are liars." [Minhaaj as-Sunnah, 1/37] During a class of Imaam Maalik, it was mentioned that the Raafidite Shi`ites curse the Sahaabah. In reply, he quoted the Quranic verse, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gentle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged with them." He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the Sahaabah are mentioned is one about whom the verse speaks." [Tafseeer al-Qurtubee, Soorah al-Fath; Editors note: That is, anyone who is enraged by the mention of the Sahaabah is a disbeliever, because the verse says, "the disbelievers may become enraged with them (Sahaabah)."]
- Ibn al-Mubaarak
Ibn al-Mubaarak was reported to have said, "Religion is gained from Ahl al-Hadeeth, scholastic theology and crafty exemptions from religious
ordinances of Ahl ar-Ray and lies from the Raafidite Shiites." [Adh-Dhahabee, al Muntaqaa min Minhaaj al-Itidaal, p. 48
- Abu Zur`ah ar-Raazee
This great scholar was quoted as saying, "If you see someone degrade any of the companions of the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, know that he is a disbeliever. Because the Prophet, sallallaahualayhi wa sallam, was real, what he brought was the truth and all of it was conveyed to us by the way of the Sahaabah. What those disbelievers wish to do is to cast doubt on the reliability of our narrators in order to invalidate the Quraan and the Sunnah. Thus the
disbelievers are the ones most deserving defamation."
- Al-Qaadee Abu Ya`laa
It was reported that Abu Ya`laa said, "The position of jurists concerning one who curses the Sahaabah, believing that such an act is permissible, is that he
has committed an act of disbelief. If he curses them but does not believe that cursing them is permissible, then he is guilty of immorality, and not disbelief."
[Ibn Taymeeyah, as-Sawaarim al-Maslool, p. 569]
- At-Tahaawee
In his book on the Islamic creed, al-Aqeedah at-Tahaawiyyah, the author states, "We love the companions of Allaahs Prophet, sallallaahualayhi
wa sallam, without going overboard in our love of anyone of them or remaining aloof (tabarra) from any of them. We hate those who hate them or speak ill
of them and we only speak well of them. Loving them is a religious act, and an expression of faith and righteousness while hating them is an act of
disbelief, hypocrisy and transgression." [Sharh al-`Aqeedah at-Tahaawiyyah,
p. 528]
- Ibn Hazm al-Andaloosee
One day during the period of Muslim rule in Spain, Imaam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm was having a debate with some Spanish Catholic priests about their
religious texts. He brought before them evidence of textual distortions in the Bible and the loss of original manuscripts. When they replied by pointing
out to him Shiite claims also being distorted, Ibn Hazm informed them that "Shiite could not be used as evidence against the Quraan or against Muslims
because they are not themselves Muslims." [Ibn Hazm, al-Fisaal fee al-Milal wa an-Nihal, 2/78 and 4/182]
Their claims have been rebutted by numerous other early scholars like Ibn Taymeeyah in Minhaaj as-Sunnah, adh-Dhahabee in Muntaqaa min Minhaaj al-Itidaal, Ibn Katheer in his history book [al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihaayah],Arabee in al-`Awwaasim min al-Qawaasim.
Ibn al-Jawzee in Talbees Iblees, and al-Qaadee ibn al-
Contemporary Scholars
- Imaam al-Aloosee
He declared the Raafidite Shi'ites disbelievers because of their defamation of the Sahaabah. His position was based on the rulings of Imam Malik and other scholars who were in agreement with him. In reply to their claim to be Ahl Bayt (the Prophet's sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam family), al-Aloosee said, "No, they are really followers of the Devils and Ahl Bayt are innocent of them."
[/quote]
His basic argument that they are stuck to their beliefs dude to what is written in their books is the biggest peice of BS i have ever heard or read.
According to this belief, all Christains and Jews are innocent too cause they're confined to their beliefs too, cause of what's written in their books.
Cussing the Sahabas or calling them Kafirs or even Sinners...DOES take one outside the fold of Islam, and the scholars of Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah agree on this.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Didnt want to disturb the good intention behind this thread but since sharaabi has brought some disturbing elements in the thread thus i have to get invovled.
[quote]
Cussing the Sahabas or calling them Kafirs or even Sinners...DOES take one outside the fold of Islam, and the scholars of Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah agree on this.
[/quote]
The same (earlier) ulema of ahle sunnah seemed to have been very cautious when it came people abusing their beloved ones but when it came the abusers of Ahlulbayt [as] they did not continue same stance rather they rewarded such impudent people by giving them special and exalted place in their madhab i.e deeming them authority to derive their religious teachings from (in the form of hadeeth).
It is commonly known that the abusers of Ahlulbayt [as] are munafiqs (hypocrites) means those who profess something contrary as to what is kept/believed by them in their heart, so how can such person by reliable for wordly affairs let alone for religious affairs!
Double Standards!
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Great video, thanks for posting this. It's good to see even Lajawab making a good point on this issue away from extremist views.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Double Standards!
Name me one scholar from Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah who abused the Ahle Bait.
The only people who cuss and swear at the Ahle Bait are the Shias themselves, when they attack the Umahaat al Mo'mineen, the Prophet's wives. Surey the Mothers come before Ali's family in the Ahle Bait.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
[QUOTE]
Name me one scholar from Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah who abused the Ahle Bait.
[/QUOTE]
Whenever I met any sunni by face or any other source sunnies starts stupid talks about shia sect.That are thier stupid Mullas told them.
The hate in your hearts is real cursing that we see in your diffrent actions.
For example Saudi have demolished Masjid e Al-Fadheekh (also known as Masjid Al-shams). This mosque was built on the place famous for the miracle of returning of the sun for Imam Ali (AS).The mosque was visited by Shias and Sunnis alike. They have destoyed this mosque to show their hatred towards Imam Ali (AS) and to stop the Shia and the Sunni believers from visiting the place.
Is this action show your love for Ahl-e-bait?
Or ............
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
This example doesn't carry weight for various reasons.
- I asked for a scholar who swore at the Ahle Bait.
- The Saudi government has absolutely nothing to do with the Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah; puppets in the hands of the West, they act out of their own whims and desires.
- The Saudi govt. has even destroyed the Prophet's house and many other historical sites, and replaced them with 5 star hotels. That's proof that they do not discriminate between the Ahle Bait and other. The issue here is really about money, more than anything else.
- Whats that miracle you talk about...that's news to me.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
I can name almost 30 of Nawasib and Khawarij narrators of principle Sunni hadith works who besides their being Khariji or Nasibi (abusers/opponents of Ahlulbayt [as]) they have been widely praised by the ulema of Ahle Sunnah and not only that but have been declared “Thiqa” i.e most authentic/reliable ones to derive their religion (hadeeths) from. Rite now take one example, its Abdullah bin Zaid bin Umro:
We read about the Nasb (Nasibism) of this Sunni Faqih (jurist) in ‘Taqreeb al-Tahdeeb’:
عبدالله ابن زيد ابن عمرو أو عامر الجرمي أبو قلابة البصري ثقة فاضل كثير الإرسال قال العجلي فيه نصب يسير من الثالثة مات بالشام هاربا من القضاء سنة أربع ومائة وقيل بعدها
“Abdullah ibn Zaid ibn Amro or Amer Al-Jurmi Abu Qulabah Al-Basri, Thiqah, pious narrated a lot of Mursal traditions, Al-Ejli said about him: he had little bit of Nasb, he belongs to third generation (Tabaqah), he ran away from law and died in “Sham” year 104 or after it “
Online Taqreeb al Tahdeeb, page 305 No.3333 (http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=402&CID=19)
Imam of Ahle Sunnah Ibn Hajar Asqalani informs about him being praised by the Imams of Ahle Sunnah for being a Nasibi:
الستة عبد الله بن زيد بن عمرو ويقال عامر بن نابل بن مالك بن عبيد بن علقمة بن سعد أبو قلابة الجرمي البصري أحد الأعلام روى ذكره بن سعد في الطبقة الثانية من أهل البصرة وقال كان ثقة كثير الحديث قال بن عون ذكر أيوب لمحمد حديثا عن أبي قلابة فقال أبو قلابة إن شاء الله ثقة رجل صالح وقال أيوب كان والله من الفقهاء ذوي الألباب ما أدركت بهذا المصر رجلا كان أعلم بالقضاء من أبي قلابة وقال العجلي بصري تابعي ثقة وكان يحمل على علي وقال عمر بن عبد العزيز لن تزالوا بخير يا أهل الشام ما دام فيكم هذا
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ‘Thiqah’.”
Tahdeeb al Tahdeeb, Volume 5 No. 388
In order to know more about this beloved Nasibi of Sunni Imams one can also see Tahdeeb al Kamal, Volume 14 No. 3283 by Imam Jamauddin al-Mizzi.
That is your point of view, the Ahlulbayt [as] for Shias refers to the pure pregoney of Holy Prophet [s] starting from Ahl Kisa. But anyhow, there are clear cut traditions where we have been told that the abusers and enemies of Ahlulbayt [as] are open Munafiqs and Kaafir specially the enemies of Ali bin Abi Talib [as] but what we see (as above) that Sunni Imams not only praised such enemies of Ali [as] but they narrated hadeeths from such filthy people in their 'Principle" hadeeth books and declared them as “most reliable” ones. Now i dont know how can a Munafiq be a “reliable source of religion” !
So double standards!
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
We have absolutely nothing to do with those who cuss the Ahle Bait, and we call them Kafirs...just like those who cuss Abu Bakr and Umar.
[quote]
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ‘Thiqah’.”Tahdeeb al Tahdeeb, Volume 5 No. 388
[/quote]
Where did you get this bit of information from? I need the exact link, if its taken of some website..if not i'll have it checked and then get back to you.
Whatever is the case, let it be known that Shias are as bad as, if not worse, than these Nasibis that you talk about.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Where did you get this bit of information from? I need the exact link, if its taken of some website..if not i'll have it checked and then get back to you.
Your use of "We" here does not help you in anyway since your Ulema and Imams of madhab had always been with the very people , praising them and deriving the teachings of your madhab from the very people.
As for the information, i have mentioned complete references for both of the quotations. These are amongst the prominent Rijal books of Ahle Sunnah and can be found easily in markets or with the rapid change in technology, they can be found in various sunni/wahabi online libraries too like almeshkat. saaid, al-eman etc.
Remember, the foundation of your madhab is based on these Nasibies (scholars) so it is not appropriate and rational to read such words from you.
You see, that hadith is the 2nd most important way to understand and derive one's madhab but that is not an easy task rather the narrators have to be considered reliable/truthful/honest/pious/knowledgable and authority. Your Imams like Bukhari, Muslim, Nasai and other 3 had been going to these very Nasibies to take hadeth from them for you people, so it is not really decent & rational from you to denounce *these Nasibis :) *
I will say that, when we can 'try' to overlook such a big flaw in your madhab i.e your madhab is based on those who were all time enemies of our most belvoed Ahlulbayt [as] and even then we extend our hand towards Sunnies just for the sake of Islam and the challenges it is facing today, then why cant extremist elements among sunnies (like you) can also do the same. Yes we have this thins in both of our madhabs which is a 'problem' to eachother but what can we do about it, this is based on the incidents of past, cant change it !
peace!