Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Dude, nothings been proven until i see the Arabic text from where you're translating. Up untill now the status of this issue, is nothign more than a slander, the one job that you guys know very well.
Your statements totally contradict that aqeedah of the Ahle Sunnah, and somethign that's totally foreign to our teachings..so enough with your BS, until i get my hands on the arabic text.
What we know for sure, is that its the Shias who bad mouth the Companions, the friends of the Prophet (sas).
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Your statements totally contradict that aqeedah of the Ahle Sunnah, and somethign that's totally foreign to our teachings..so enough with your BS, until i get my hands on the arabic text.
What we know for sure, is that its the Shias who bad mouth the Companions, the friends of the Prophet (sas).
Come out of day dreaming dude, i have provided complete references as well as direct link to the online library, so no need to make claims which might humiliate you later on. And if an individual (you) could not verify the text i have quoted for months/years that wont change the reallity. So i woud suggest not to make any claim untill you verify what I have written and understand how your ulema have been keeping you in dark.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
I read post #18, but I didn't see a direct hadith or quote or someone using or propagating to use inappropriate language against Ali (RA) and his family members.
I could've missed it. Could someone please bold it in case I've missed it?
In addition, even if an individual did stoop to such a level, I'd really wonder if they would still would be within the fold of Islam. I don't ever recall anyone ever propagating or condoning such behaviour.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
sis, it was the Rijal entry (you can say biography) of a pioneer Sunni jurist Abdullah bin Zaid bin Umro with the testimonies of other Sunni Imams about him. It is said about him that "He used to hate Ali" . This is just one example of pioneer Sunni scholars/imams/narrators who hated Ali [as] as i said there are many more.
As for your concern about the status of the Iman of such a person, then the very paragraph i had quoted answers to your question that he was not considered Non-Muslim even on such basis rather you can find hadiths narrated from him in all 6 principle books of Ahle Sunnah.
The point I was trying to make was not to attack such pioneer Sunni scholars rather I have been trying to say that we have problems at both side so there are possibilites of reconciliation.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Sis, What I had quoted was the Rijal entry (say a biography) of Sunni jurist Abdullah bin Zaid bin Umro alongwith the testimonies of other Sunni ulema about him and among those testimonies you can read that "He used to hate Ali" .
As for you conrcen about the status of the Iman of such an individual, so you can clearly see in the very paragraph that he was not regarded as nonmuslim due to his pathetic belief rather he was exalted to the level where he had been deemed an authority to take hadith in all 6 principle books of ahle sunnah.
My point was not to attack that person rather to show that we have (what we can say) "problems" in both of the sects so reconciliation isnt impossible, just intention shud be there.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
BOY-NICE, that's what I said. I couldn't find the part quoted he or others hated Ali (RA). Hence, the reason why I asked you to bold/highlight them, so that I could see. I tried going over it twice, but I think I somehow missed it.
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
This isnt an issue which i am particularly knowledgable about so can anyone help me...
I take my evidences from the four scholars and if they agree on it then i take it on board...
So based on what Sharaabi has said i should accept the shia as Kaffir...
Heres the confusion however...many shias i know make a distinction between the rafidite shias that the four imams mentioned and a conventional shia...the shias i have spoken to see them as extremists...
So to shias is that the case?...and to Sharaabi do the imams create a distinction?...
Im not sure if they are being genuine or just acting apologetic so educated responses would be much appreciated...
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Just a question to both Sharaabi and the Shias on this thread...
Im not particularly sure about the matter so if both of you can clear up a few things...
I follow whatever the four scholars say...if they all agree on an issue than i agree with it...so based on what Sharaabis raised in my eyes that would make shias kaffir...
Heres the question...Shias i know say that the four imams refer to Rafidite shias who the shias i know claim are extreme...and they claim that these four imams created a distinction between conventional and extreme shias...are they being apologists or is that actually the case?...
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
although i have mentioned that sentence in bold in my last post but for your easiness, let me quote the whole para again:
[QUOTE]
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ...
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
although i have mentioned that sentence in bold in my last post but for your easiness, let me quote the whole para again:
[QUOTE]
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ...
[/QUOTE]
although i have mentioned that sentence in bold in my last post but for your easiness, let me quote the whole para again:
[QUOTE]
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ...
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
although i have mentioned that sentence in bold in my last post but for your easiness, let me quote the whole para again:
[quote]
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ...
[/quote]
Re: A Fascinating Speech on different sects of Islam [Merged]
Sis, Its strange that you cudnt find the sentence, anyhow, here i requote it for your easiness.
[QUOTE]
"Abdullah bin Zaid bin Amro or as other said Amer bin Nabel bin Malik bin Ubaid bin Alqamah bin Sad Abu Qulabah Al-Jurmi Al-Basri narrated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawood, Sunan Al-Termidhi, Sunan Al-Nesa'i, Sunan Ibn Majah…Ibn Sad mentioned him in the second generation (Tabaqah) of the people of Basra and said about him: ‘Thiqah and narrated a lot of traditions’…Ibn Aun narrates that Ayoub narrates a tradition about Abu Qulabah to Muhammad, so he said about Abu Qulabah: ‘Insha Allah he is Thiqah and pious’…Ayoub said: ‘He is a jurist (Faqih) and intelligent, I never met some one in this country more knowledgeable than Abu Qulabah in judgments’…Al-Ejeli said: ‘He is Tab`ee from Basra, thiqah and he used to hate Ali’…Umar ibn Abdulaziz said: ‘Oh people of Sham!, as long this one (Abdullah bin Zaid) lives among you, you all are fine’…Ibn Kharash said: ‘Thiqah’.”
Tahdeeb al Tahdeeb, Volume 5 No. 388