A fantasy of freedom

If Bush wanted to tackle tyranny, he could start with regimes under US control. But liberty clearly has limits, says Gary Younge.

Monday January 24, 2005
The Guardian

There is one tiny corner of Cuba that will forever America be. It is a place where innocent people are held without charge for years, beyond international law, human decency and the mythical glow of Lady Liberty’s torch. It is a place where torture is common, beating is ritual and humiliation is routine. They call it Guantánamo Bay.

Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, listed Cuba, among others, as “an outpost of tyranny”. A few days later President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash “the force of freedom” on the entire world. “The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world,” he said

You would think that if the Americans are truly interested in expanding freedom and ending tyranny in Cuba, let alone the rest of the world, Guantánamo Bay would be as good a place to start as any. But the captives in Guantánamo should not ask for the keys to their leg irons any time soon. Ms Rice was not referring to the outpost of tyranny that her boss created in Cuba, but the rest of the Caribbean island, which lives in a stable mixture of the imperfect and the impressive.

In short, while the US could liberate a place where there are flagrant human rights abuses and over which they have total control, it would rather topple a sovereign state, which poses no threat, through diplomatic and economic - and possibly military - warfare that is already causing chaos and hardship. Welcome to Bush’s foreign policy strategy for the second term. His aim is not to realign the values at Guantánamo so that they are more in line with those championed by the rest of the world. It is to try and realign the rest of the world so that it is more in keeping with the values that govern Guantánamo, where human rights and legal norms are subordinated to America’s perceived interests.

Under this philosophy, the Bush administration understands the words “tyranny” and “freedom” in much the same way as it understands international law. They mean whatever the White House wants them to mean. Bush is happy to support democracy when democracy supports America, just as he is happy to dispense with it when it does not. Likewise, when tyranny is inconvenient, he will excoriate it; when it is expedient, he will excuse it.

Take Uzbekistan, one of the most repressive regimes in central Asia. In April 2002, a special UN rapporteur concluded that torture in the country was “systematic” and “pervasive and persistent… throughout the investigation process”. In the same year, Muzafar Avazov, an opposition leader, was boiled alive for refusing to abandon his religious convictions and attempting to practise religious rites in prison. In 2003, Bush granted a waiver to Uzbekistan when its failure to improve its human rights record should have led to its aid being slashed. In February 2004 the US secretary of defence, Donald Rumsfeld, visited the country’s dictator, Islam Karimov, and said: “The relationship [between our countries] is strong and growing stronger. We look forward to strengthening our political and economic relations.”

Yet the US continues to shower the country with aid, docking a mere $18m last year (around 20% of the total) after expressing its “disappointment” that Mr Karimov had not made greater strides towards democracy. Pan down the shopping list of tyrannical states in Ms Rice’s in-tray (Iran, Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Belarus and Cuba) and you will find no mention of Uzbekistan. Why? Because Uzbekistan, with an estimated 10,000 political prisoners, hosts a US military base that offers easy access to Afghanistan and the rest of the region.

So for every tenet that Mr Bush claimed last week to hold dear, it was possible to pick out a country or place he is bankrolling or controlling that is in flagrant violation, and where he could improve conditions immediately if he wished. The point here is not that the US should intervene in more places, but that it should intervene consistently and honestly or not at all.

Bush’s inauguration speech was packed with truisms, axioms, platitudes and principles that appear reasonable at first glance. *The trouble is they are contradicted by the reality he has created and continues to support. *

As he delivered his address, you could almost whisper the caveats. “America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains [apart from in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay], or that women welcome humiliation and servitude [apart from in Saudi Arabia] or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies [apart from Uzbekistan and Israel].”

Such hypocrisy is not new. When Mr Bush said “Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom and make their own way”, nobody imagined he was referring to the Bolivian peasants fighting oil price hikes and globalisation or the landless Venezuelans taking over farms.

The agenda for a second Bush term represents not a change in direction but an acceleration of the colossal and murderous folly that he, and most of his predecessors, have pursued.

The damage that this selective notion of liberty inflicts on the rest of the world should by now be pretty clear. According to the independent website Iraqbodycount.net, reported civilian deaths in Iraq have already reached between 15,365 and 17,582 since the war started, while the recent study for the Lancet estimated the death toll at 100,000 at least, and probably higher; meanwhile, the number is growing remorselessly. Next weekend’s elections in Iraq - which take place in the midst of a war against foreign occupiers with most candidates too scared to campaign, the location of polling sites kept secret until the last minute and key areas unable to participate - have become not an example of democracy but an embarrassment to the very idea of democracy.

*Meanwhile, a global poll for the BBC last week showed the US more isolated than ever, with people in 18 out of 21 countries saying that they expect a second Bush term to have a negative impact on peace and security. *

*What is less clear is whether most Americans understand that this isolation leaves them more vulnerable to attack. Ms Rice last week promised “a conversation, not a monologue” with the rest of the world. But as the situation in Iraq shows, conversations that start with “D’you want a piece of this?” rarely end well for anybody. *

Both Osama bin Laden and the Taliban have shown that the tyrants the US supports today can easily turn against it tomorrow while fostering resentment among their victims. Yet the idea that the US is a civilising force endowed with benevolent intentions is still as prevalent within the US as it is rejected outside it.

Indeed, Tony Blair seems to be the only foreign leader who still holds to the mixture of wishful thinking, wilful ignorance and warped logic behind the idea that Bush is leading humanitarian interventions at the barrel of a gun.
When questioned about the prospects for Bush’s second term, the British prime minister was upbeat. “Evolution comes with experience,” he said. The fact that Bush does not believe in evolution has long been known. Only now are we discovering how little Blair learns from experience.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1396962,00.html


This article pretty much sums up what most ‘foriegners’ can’t stand about America; and that includes the non-muslim world. Notice it doesnt have much to do with the F word either.

Gary Younge rocks. May his ink never run out. :k:

Re: A fantasy of freedom

More Anti-US crap Ma.

Lets restate the Anti-US litany.

Cuba
Tyrants
Invasion of Iraq

Blah blah blah. More regurgitation of the same themes. This is not some inspired piece of journalism, it is the same Leftist/Guardian/Independent drivel.

Funny how some things can be so easily ignored. The author mentions OBL and the Taliban. He conveniently forgets that Afghanistan had its first free vote in perhaps the history of the country. (Lets just pass that over, as it does not suit the theme). The author does not mention the downfall of a genocidal Saddam who slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Nor the upcoming elections in Iraq, dangerous as they might be. Who will be protecting polling places, and who will be attacking them? Who intervenes to help stabilize Bosnia/Kosovo? A little ethnic cleansing problem there that required US troops for a decade? Posh, for some reason that does not count, so we will leave it out.

There are only two ways to defeat tyrants. Engage them (sort of like the success with Libya--oops, lets not mention THAT success either), or to defeat them militarily. Authors like your buddy seem to think that tossing a nice journalistic spit wad will teach the scalliwags a lesson. The beheaders, suicide bombers, and Islamic fanatics sort of giggle at this.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

^^^ why don't u ever admit that America has double standards with everything? I will admit that you are right about Saddam killing millions, free vote in Afghanistan (which doesn't mean **** btw since the average person is still living in *), but u really think elections in Iraq are a big achievement of the states? Iraqis dont' give a * abt the election. They can't leave the house without the worry of being shot or bombed by either Americans or the terrorists. The situation in Iraq today, if not worse, is no better than Saddam era. Don't even mention Bosina because thousands and thousands died there and nobody came for help and when they came, they came very late. Kosovo, ok, one maybe.

Every nation on this planet has double standards but countries like Pakistan or other countries having double standard don't effect many but America being the sole super power having double standards effect everybody since they police everybody. Start accepting that there is a problem with the American administration. Millions are saying that, u can either accept it today, or see more of Iraq and then maybe accept it.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

I am an American and I dont think we have double standards. Your post is yet one more gripe towards America. I like the helplessness of the world however, cause it drives my point home "You can't live with US and you can't live without US" this is apparant from your post.

Let me help you with a hypothetical question: If US were to dis-engage from the mid-east tomorrow (bring back every soldier, equipment etc). I can bet my pedigreed camel that you will still post a gripe, that look now US left with the mess. Same applies everywhere in the world. US has made mistakes, but they dont have double standards. I was of the same opinion before I read up on For-Policy, however now I understand that options are limited when dealing with Muslim world. If US wants to deal with Moderate Muslim Governments there is no double standard in it. It's a matter of preference which hard core islamist cant comprehend.
Let me give you another example: if you go to a car dealership and pay for a blue honda; now what you get is an orange honda, would you just pick it up or would you bitch and get the color you wanted. Same thing applies with US, if the countries take AID from US then they have to conform to how it is administred by US standards (I mean I not talking $20 here We are talking $2 billion per begger country). If the country or its constituents don't want the aid and wnat to do things they deem fit, more power to them , just dont hold the hat next time around.

It is also called or is another form of Na-shukray (thanklessness) which the world is full of.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Perhaps we should all step back a minute and examine the reason for the "Freedom Speech"

first and foremost, what do you think is running through Musharrafs mind right now? Is he more comfortable wiht his situation or less? Usbekistan, Turkmenistan, do you think that they feel more comfotable with their behavior or less? The power of this speech, is that it makes clear that expectations have changed. No country is pure. Every country operates in its own interests.

This speech makes it much easier to go to despots and to say, "The world is watching us, we must work on change." Every tin pot despot who wants US Aid knows today that he must make movement in the right direction because it is expected. The speech itself mandates better behavior. Now, will things REALLY change? Who knows? The despot can concoct a baket of improvements that he never intends to follow through on. He can create window dressing. But most certainly he is feeling more pressure for change today that before the speech.

Without firing a shot, the talk of the world is freedom. The volume on the debate ratcheted up a little. The Anti-US crowd will have a field day screeching "hypocracy " and running about in circles without swivling thier heads once or twice to see if mere rhetoric from the most powerful country in the world can actually change things. The rhetoric is powerfull it gives the US an umbrella to make change, because publically they have said that that is the agenda.

This speech is smart. It focuses on a core issue, puts the US in the right place, and allows the US to make diplomatic moves in the right direction, and rattles the sabre in the stinking corridors of the world. The anti-US crowed is of no consequence, as Mother Terresa could be elected US president and the anti-US people would still be ranting about slavery, American Indians and Hiroshima. They will not ever be satisifed, so we must ignore them.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

'You would think that if the Americans are truly interested in expanding freedom and ending tyranny in Cuba, let alone the rest of the world, Guantánamo Bay would be as good a place to start as any.But the captives in Guantánamo should not ask for the keys to their leg irons any time soon. Ms Rice was not referring to the outpost of tyranny that her boss created in Cuba, but the rest of the Caribbean island, which lives in a stable mixture of the imperfect and the impressive.'

foriegn policy in a nutshell.

i'll reply to you're articles later.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Do you think Mr. Younge realizes that he is describing a wartime terrorist prison with Gitmo?

Guantanamo is not populated by an incidental population that just happens to be unlucky enough to live in a prison for terrorists. Comparing this group with other genuinely freedom-deprived peoples is merely a hollow attempt at “gotcha hypocrisy”. Vapid treacle that has very little meaning except to the rubes who continue to lap it up.

In the real world the U.S. is spending billions and giving it’s soldiers lives to create representative govt. in Iraq. That’s the big picture.

A military prison filled mostly with scum is not a very strong example with which to “trump” U.S. intent with regard to the spread of democracy.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Guess which “outpost of tyranny” this is?

The Government’s human rights record was poor, and the Government committed numerous serious abuses; however, there were improvements in some areas, particularly with respect to freedom of the press. Citizens continued to be denied the right to choose or change their government peacefully. Police committed numerous extrajudicial killings; however, there were fewer such killings than in 1999. In xxxxx there were fewer killings between rival political factions during the year; however, many of these killings reportedly were committed by or with the participation of the security forces. Police abused and raped citizens. While the officers responsible for such abuses sometimes were transferred or suspended for their actions, no officer has been convicted and very few have been arrested. In xxxxx there were signs of progress in redressing police excesses; however, in general police continued to commit serious abuses with impunity. Prison conditions remained extremely poor, and police arbitrarily arrested and detained citizens. The Government used arbitrary and sometimes incommunicado detention against leaders of the xxxxx Government and their families; several major political leaders remained in jail or in self-imposed exile abroad at year’s end. Case backlogs led to long delays in trials, and lengthy pretrial detention is common. The judiciary is subject to executive and other outside influences, and corruption, inefficiency, and lack of resources remained problems. The Government took steps to control the judiciary and to remove itself from judicial oversight.

These are everyday conditions. Not a wartime detention of a couple of hundred fighters picked up on a battlefield. Conditions that have existed everyday for five years, without the benefit of outlandish headlines, Red Cross visits, and lathered moral outrage. Guantanamo is a touchstone for every well intentioned lefty. But prisoners there are generally well treated subject to what Red Cross calls conditions “Tanamount to Torture” Now wait, “Tantamount” Why tantamount? Why not just “torture”? I guess the Red Cross can’t quite really call it “torture”, but they don’t like it, so they feed a good line to the lefty press. Now go visit Karachi, the city in the report above, and they could find some real torture, not this “tantamount” torture stuff, maybe some police rape and extrajudicial killings too!

Wanna visit an outpost of tyranny? Walk down the street Pakistanis. Hopefully Mushy is squirming a little today and making a few phone calls… do you think?

Re: A fantasy of freedom

[QUOTE]

if the countries take AID from US then they have to conform to how it is administred by US standards (I mean I not talking $20 here We are talking $2 billion per begger country

[/QUOTE]

Do the same standards apply to Israel or they are free to put spies in every important office of US, kill our soldiers(USS Liberty), journalists and to top it all demand that all suspected spies be pardoned and immediately released to Israel custody? Do you want me to give some more examples of double standards or do you wanna chew on this for a bit?

Re: A fantasy of freedom

I am sure each and every person in Gitmo was caught red handed with all the evidence to banish them in a hell hole for eternal life. Mr. Storch, how can you be so certain that all held in gitmo are guilty? Next time, think before spewing out the same old drivel that amounts to the same old nothing.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

They are not double standards these are “one offs” or exceptions.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Verizon bhai, that is a lame attempt to shove the whole thing under the rug. We should (as americans) practice what we preach.... if it is a crime to spy against US for a Muslim (that is not going to happen any time soon :)), than it is a crime for a jew as well. We need to accept and admit that we send billions of dollars (10 billion I think last year) to Israel and all they do is create more problems for us.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Oh it still is a crime whether it is a jew or a muslim. I believe pollard is still in prison. The same restrictions apply to Israel as well, they have to buy weapons from US with the AID they get same as Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
What do you want to preach?

Re: A fantasy of freedom

The point wasn’t that all are necessarily guilty. The dumb-ss writer is trying to draw a parallel between a (mostly) beligerent prison population with a general population (Cuba). Perhaps he should find where Cuban political prisoners are held and see how alternately “imperfect and impressive” that environment is.

Don’t get yer undies in a bunch, Nancy.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Ok, so we must not draw parallels to prison populations and ignore the fact that many if not all are held without evidence, due cause in Gitmo. We should ignore it and peopel will forget about. I am sure it works the same way as vanishing WMD's....dont talk about it any more and world will forget about it. After all we are liberating (from this earh) millions of people.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Plenty of people are talking about due process for Guantanamo detainees. Laywers, writers, senators, etc. They're haggling.

So if Mr. Younge wants to take a shot at Guantanamo as an unfairly run prison, let him have at it, and report with research relative to Geneva Convetions, other examples of prisons that hold "enemy combatants" and the like. Guess what?
That's all old news. We pretty much know where the Bush admin. stands and where Amnesty International stands.

However, he takes the childish route and tries to draw an equivolence between a largely terrorist (yes, certainly some innocent and not so "terroristy") population captured in conflict and the Cuban population at large (like most societies they are good, law-abiding citizens).

Why just to play the "hypocrisy" card. Childish minds with limited cognitive abilities will continue to screech such things and other similar minds will continue to lap it up.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

[QUOTE]
Do you think Mr. Younge realizes that he is describing a wartime terrorist prison with Gitmo?
[/QUOTE]
Firstly, it was one point out of many that the author used. Secondly, of all, british men released from gitmo last year all have been investigated and released without charge. These were only british, who were released after 3 yrs of intense and mass campaigning thanks to Moazzam Baigs father. I can bet you most inmates in there are in a similar situation, but lack the support of an influential enough gov to help them out hence they are innocent people yet languishing in jails.

Thirdly, Its been three years since guantanamo was established, and none or atleast most of the inmates have not been charged, so this whole 'wartime terrorist' facade doesnt really apply. At present they're all innocent until proven guilty.

Even if these were 'wartime terrorists' as you proclaim, are you saying inhumane treatment is acceptable? I dont see with which face america is going around trying to liberate others whilst explicitly allowing torture right under her nose? She boasts being the champion for human rights, but maybe she should stop boasting altogether. Atleast the double standard label wont be ringing true eh.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Ma,

What in Gods name makes you think that Guantanamo prisoners need to be "charged". Charged with what? Please reread a bunch of threads on Guantanamo and educate your Lefty butt. The Laws of War are very different from criminal law that you are used to seeing on TV. But, they are accepted by every party to the Geneva conventions.

When prisoners are picked up on a battlefield they do not have to be charged with anything according to the Geneva Conventions. If the fighters on the battlefield are dressed in a uniform of the country they are fighting for, and they have obeyed the laws of war, then they are POWs, with full rights as POWs. If they do not wear a uniform. are fighting in a foreign land without the permission of their country then they are "enemy combattants". If they are paid to be on the battlefield, and they are not natives of that country, they are mercenaries. Mercenaries are never afforded rights under the Geneva Convention. (To me, every foreign jihadi should be treated as a mercenary by the way) Rumsfeld did not just make up this term "enemy combattant", it has been part of the language of the Geneva Conventions for 60 years.

The bottom line is that either POWs or enemy combattants are released at the end of the conflict. So, is it over?

Re: A fantasy of freedom

LMAO :rotfl:

Re: A fantasy of freedom

what about restrictions of where they can use US weapons? :expressionless: are they exempt from that too as a “one-off” thingie?