A fantasy of freedom

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Anti-US it is, but i dont quite agree with the crap part. Repitition of an accusation is not a reason to dismiss it. More likely it will have some truth in it.

OG, the purpose of the article is not to shower America with praises, there are plenty doing that already. The point of the article is stated by Gary Younge himself ‘The point here is not that the US should intervene in more places, but that it should intervene consistently and honestly or not at all.’

The purpose was to pinpoint America’s self interest policies that has pretty much isolated her from the world. Intervening only when its only serves your interest doesnt normally go down too well with anyone. Even America’s strongest ally, Blair, had to speak out and tell america to engage other countries as oppose to seeking thier own agenda and just expecting others to play along. Maybe you should address what he does mention, instead of pointing out what he left out. Here is the problem;

*As he delivered his address, you could almost whisper the caveats. “America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains [apart from in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay], or that women welcome humiliation and servitude [apart from in Saudi Arabia] or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies [apart from Uzbekistan and Israel].” *

*Such hypocrisy is not new. When Mr Bush said “Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom and make their own way”, nobody imagined he was referring to the Bolivian peasants fighting oil price hikes and globalisation or the landless Venezuelans taking over farms. *

There are too many to discuss but lets start with US’s policies towards Guantanamo and these countries; Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Israel, Uzbekistan.

Funny that, i said the same thing in the Iraqi poll thread, on how iraqis should go about achieving thier goals.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

'You can't live with US and you can't live without US"

Make that 'you can live with US, but without its screwed up policies.'

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I am an American and I dont think we have double standards. Your post is yet one more gripe towards America.
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And pray tell, my gripes are totally unfounded? or that i go around looking for gripes just for the sake of it? I really dont think so. If amercia wants to go ahead and screw or liberate other countries, dont pretend your some sort of saviour whilst you go on about it. That is just plain sick. Thats what the article says, and that is what my gripe is about.

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Let me help you with a hypothetical question: If US were to dis-engage from the mid-east tomorrow (bring back every soldier, equipment etc). I can bet my pedigreed camel that you will still post a gripe, that look now US left with the mess. Same applies everywhere in the world.
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Heh, you put forward a question, and then answer it yourself. Your basing your judgement on an assumption and that is dangerous. To answer your question, if america up and left in iraq, I'd be happy for the iraqis. And if things went sour, why would i be complaining about America, when shes not involved anymore (wether they remain uninvolved remains to be seen)?

My complaint would be with the Iraqis/faction that messed up. Nevertheless, Iraq isnt even a gripe at present, things are moving forward, WMD and the indicriminate killings were definately a big problem and will always will be. They were based merely on lies, lies and more lies.

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US has made mistakes, but they dont have double standards. I was of the same opinion before I read up on For-Policy, however now I understand that options are limited when dealing with Muslim world. If US wants to deal with Moderate Muslim Governments there is no double standard in it. It's a matter of preference which hard core islamist cant comprehend.
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I didnt know saudi were moderates. Isnt that where bin laden appeared from?

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Same thing applies with US, if the countries take AID from US then they have to conform to how it is administred by US standards (I mean I not talking $20 here We are talking $2 billion per begger country). If the country or its constituents don't want the aid and wnat to do things they deem fit, more power to them , just dont hold the hat next time around.

It is also called or is another form of Na-shukray (thanklessness) which the world is full of.
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Aid from the developed countries arent what they seem. They come with alot of self vested conditions, bribery, and more often than not, are loans with interest more than anything else. They often make the rich richer and the poor alot poorer. I could point alot more things to you if you want, but have a feeling your familiar with it already.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

LMAO & ROTF :rotfl:
Ma Mooli Dont mix threads. I know you are crazy but this is insane.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Verizon, the threads arent mixed u dufus. The first one is ohioguys, the second one is a reply to yours.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Oh I am sorry I read
*'You can’t live with US and you can’t live without US"

*Make that ‘you can live with US, but without its screwed up policies.’
and firgured you posted it in error. Let me read again and reply, I have to run into a meeting so may not reply till later tonite.

Re: A fantasy of freedom

Hey what’s the beef? The Iraqi’s have voted now, well selected ones have voted for selected candidates, so all the murder is now legit and in the past.