A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Society Business and Career
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Its been going on since forever now , when ever a female doctor graduates from a government funded seat and if they get married early on and arent able to progress with their career or decide to choose a different career path after having completed their MBBS , they get to hear taana’s like " seat waste ker di"

question is, should girls not go for medical profession on a merit basis , if they arnt sure of their future prospects or dont know if they will carry on with the profession? or should they go ahead and jump at this opportunity since they win it based on their talent and intelligence?

What do you guys think .. I am asking this question because seen alot of conversations going on , on this topic and its so hard to decide which argument has more weight in it :hmmm:

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It's tax payers money paying for that education, out of which the tax payers will not see a benefit. To me the solution is simple, sign a contract that you will practice at least for x years in Pakistan after finishing med school or will pay an inflation adjusted sum for each year that you don't work.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

I dont know, why, but X2 , it doesnt make sense to me .. I mean yes its the taxpayers money, but then private education isnt the best in the country either .. Plus, its not like its open to every one, only the best of the best fight every seat out , so really they win it based on their own skill set.

Here in England, we have free education for kids , would it feel good if the government said everyone who gets this education will stay in England and serve it for x number of years ..

I can understand when its a qualification like ACA , where companies that pay for the exam , require employees to stay onboard and work for a set amount of time before they can move on .. but in MBBS studies in Pakistan, student doctors work literally for free with duties as long as 72 hours in one go and remaining on call for the rest of their time , this goes on for at least 2 years while they do their house job .. isnt this serving the country bit enough already !

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There are many private medical colleges/universities which offer students a chance to study medicine even though they could not get admission in government colleges because of limited seats and high merit.And private education is open to anyone who can afford it and does not solely depend on merit.If you have low grades and enough money you can easily get admission in any one of the private institutes except for Aga khan (They only take the best)
Here is a list of some medical colleges in karachi
Aga khan university
Sir syed medical college
Baqai medical college
Ziauddin medical college
Sindh Medical College
Karachi Medical & Dental College
Dow Medical College
Hamdard College of Medicine & Dentistry
Jinnah Medical & Dental College
Liaquat College of Medicine & Dentistry Bahria University Medical & Dental College

These are a lot of seats to apply for.

And for house job students they have 2 nights per week with a monthly stipend of PKR 24000 and duration of house job is 1 year.

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I am basing my opinion solely based on following factors

1- it's a country with fewer resources and not a long line of foreign docs trying to get in to meet capacity needs

2- some waste or rather unrealized return on investment as a society is to be expected. Higher the need/critical nature of role, cost of training, and capacity to train ...higher corrective measures to discourage waste

In your view when is it too much? If 25% of a class stops practicing very soon after graduation and another 25% leaves the country? What is the tipping point?

What gets measured and has right incentives in place .. is what gets driven to desired outcomes.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

I belong to a family of doctors and I know for a fact that the way they have been made to work in govt hospitals is purely and utterly despicable. There is no scarcity of doctors in pakistan, lets not forget its a nation that has been and will probably remain obsessed with every child becoming a doctor or an engineer .. Problem is not with wasting resources , its about not being able to give the new doctors the infrastructure or financial stability.

They work like animals , with no sleep, no money, no recognition, no medicines, no one to listen to them about how healthcare can be made better. MBBS studies are amongst one of the hardest studies in the world .. why would someone want to work so hard only to leave it and not use their skills or qualification?

Perhaps because the govt only focuses on " we are making doctors for free" but forget to acknowledge the worth of these doctors , forget to give them a system in which they get rewarded for all their dedicated efforts, listen to them when they ask for better healthcare systems for the patients and the country, give them enough opportunities to grow within their careers rather then seeking international avenues ..

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It's not milk and cookies for other professions either. Scientists, engineers, lawyers, technologists... One can make the argument that medical school is tougher. But then chartered accountants work like dogs for articleship too. And no avg professional has enough of an influence to make a change especially in Pakistan. Also before we give docs a carte Blanche .. You have to see physician situation in rural areas. Now I know reasons against it will be security, which affects everyone and the rural healthcare in Pakistan is in shambles.

People choose a career should know what life is like, fair or unfair. If they did not know the biggest responsibility of that failure is theirs.

Doctors are the largest profession in my family, And we have gone over hours put in by residents and compared that to other cousins/siblings who are in investment banking or consulting and the variation is minimal.
You do that to build a career. I am not a fan of the needless long hours for any group, but that is the rite of passage right now, so you go in fully knowing what to expect and what you will be giving up.

Ask yourself this, if the same people had to take on loans to get the degree, would they abandon a career so easily? The consequence is minimal and due to that there are many bright hardworking students in med school who really should not be in med schools. There may be docs who gave up due to economic issues, how many go into a different profession. The MBBS is also vanity degree for many...among others, especially women and/or they go get themselves in situations where they can't work due to husband or in law or family pressure.

I understand the circumstances that you noted, but professionals can not be absolved of their responsibility either. So what's a good payback period? Same time it takes the institutions to get a new doctor ready. 5 years?

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Awesome information Thanks for sharing.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

[QUOTE]
They work like animals , with no sleep, no money, no recognition, no medicines, no one to listen to them about how healthcare can be made better. MBBS studies are amongst one of the hardest studies in the world .. why would someone want to work so hard only to leave it and not use their skills or qualification?
[/QUOTE]

Leave aside one year of House Job, after that i don't see any doctor killing himself with overwork. And it holds true for all professions, lawyers, CAs, Bankers, Engineers, everyone has to go through more work/less pay initially.

So, sorry, this doesn't hold true as a justification for some lazy women who waste time, money and livelihood of others.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Not alot many other professions expect individuals to go through exams and tests almost all their productive years in the medical field. and neither do they have such an upsetting work life balance as much as a doctor sees .. for several others its a choice when they work for such long hours .. for a doctor , its not a choice. And no , its not just one year that they go through this, my mother is a doctor and she served for 35 years and all through those years , we saw her doing shifts sometimes duties as long as 48 hours in a row.

"lazy women who waste time" as you are calling it, let me break the bubble for you, the lazy women WIN an educational opportunity purely on the basis of their INTELLIGENCE and HARD WORK .. stop making it look like they are handed this opportunity in a golden plate !!

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Right, well define merit then. I would include in the criteria a committment to pay back the money, if they don't serve the 'humanity' for which they took an oath to serve. This is not to discount the problems being faced by doctors in terms of payscales and facilities.

Care to answer why the people who are venturing into this 'on merit' do it in the first place when they already know what holds for them?. It would make sense if they didn't know all this when they applied for medical school and then suddenly the working hours increased, pay decreased and so on.

Why on earth do they do it then, knowing all of this in the first place? Wouldn't it be better if some other person got the chance, who put it to some use at least.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Oh puhleez bro paki doctors have it pretty good giving out neeli peeli goliyan w/o any regard for lawsuits.

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Most of the institutes I mentioned above take B graders you can check eligibility criteria on their website.I agree intelligent and hard working students earn the top seats in the top institutes but the rest who can afford goes to private medical colleges.They take aptitude test just for formality and few years ago they even took students with C grade so I would not call them Intelligent or hardworking.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Micro, we are talking about the ones who win the merit seats, not the private students.

Pwner, why do so many people study in colleges when they know they will end up jobless and useless ! they should let the more intelligent ones or the ones who have safarish to get them into a job , take the college seats so that they wont get wasted.. What say? this is by the same logic you presented in your post!

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

In addition to seat waste kar di… Many graduate move abroad…

BTW, Pakistani doctors are are best… Heart surgeon are famous… This is what I ever heard…

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

There should be a separate 'medical college' for the girls who are forced to or like to have 'Dr.' against their name only for facilitation during rishta process. They should be taught how to dissect a raan, treat ailing mom-in-law, deal with psychological warfare, dispense sweet pills for the hubby-to-be, etc. during the course of their studies.

PS1. Of course no licence for them to practice medicine
PS2. Recommendation letters from professors for prospective in-laws and/or television soap producerrs shall also be provided.

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A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Lol ^^ hahaha i m trying getting admission in medical too.i don't think the idea of saying"seat waste kar di" is right but yes if tbey are studying they must try to practice at least :/ y study so much if you are gonna stay at home.And yeah the ppl who ambitious only get admission at least they have a degree in hand they can start at any time again ;)

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

uh...what is the purpose of med schools in the first place? just to feed the residencies to get cheap labor out of newbie doctors...? Or to actually create a healthcare work-force.

In Pakistan, you don't have midlevels being trained, so you have doctors that determine medical care and nurses that carry out the orders. If doctors are already fleeing the country for better pay abroad, which from the US will soon be coming to an end since there aren't enough residency spots for our own med students anymore due to our expansion of med school seats here, then that doesn't leave many docs to service pakistani needs in the first place.

A medical education is not a right taken by the smartest kid just to plaster the degree on his wall. Maybe you don't have a company backing up that seat like you say, but you have taxpayer money and civil service needs backing up that seat, and if the applicant can't understand that when they take their oath they are taking an oath to take care of lives --> THAT MEANS THE REST OF THEIR LIVES...then they shouldn't get into it to begin with. Smart people can do other degrees if all they want is time pass while they wait for a rishta.

I think it's absolutely SELFISH what these girls are doing.

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Because a college seat is NOT the same thing as a med seat.

Really now?

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Re: A doctor wasting the govt seat ..

Ok let me tell you. I know people in the business sector, in the law sector, in the engineering sector --> all put in over 80 hr work weeks. Some people I know probably put in more work hours than docs put in these days - easy.

We're not answering one question here. If a woman doesn't intend on practicing in the first place, and is waiting a rishta, and her family is waiting a rishta, and then the plan is to stay at home after marriage, why bust your behind in the first place for the MBBS which you ascertain is so darn difficult/near impossible that you must be a rocket scientist to do?

Practicing medicine is, if taught properly, something you can even coach a properly experienced nurse to do, with some limitations. We see this in the US, where NP's, PA's and even now pharmacists are dispensing medicines. Is it crappy medicine? Yes absolutely. Do we need more docs? Yes absolutey. So every seat really does count.

As for these private univ that take anyone for an MBBS, all I can say is, only in Pakistan....