A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab & Surah An-Nur (in regards to hijab) (merged)

[shweetdreamz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@evilmastermind

this is all DEPENDS on one’s INTENTIONS, so we can’t just assume things, right dear?

WOW! no really? it depends on intentions??? u mean that?

case closed behenjee..

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@MehnazQ

You have mentioned in the past that you don’t wear a hijab. So is it fair to assume you wear low cut tops and tight pants? Why don’t you leave the judgments and condemnations to God?

Before anybody else goes on about how much I dislike hijabis, please save it. I really couldn’t care less if you wear a hijab or not cause honestly, it is between you and God.

i could careless as well. but it bothers me when one denies the truth.

[fghd]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

oh boy, jiss nay samajhna ho woh chutki may samajh jaye jiss nay na samajhna ho woh pahar daykh kar bhi na samjhay.......Allah Hafiz!

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@MehnazQ

**You have mentioned in the past that you don’t wear a hijab. So is it fair to assume you wear low cut tops and tight pants? **Why don’t you leave the judgments and condemnations to God?

Before anybody else goes on about how much I dislike hijabis, please save it. I really couldn’t care less if you wear a hijab or not cause honestly, it is between you and God.

maybe i do you’ll nvr know now will u?

[shweetdreamz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@AnGeL EyEs

how is that hypocritical. it would be hypocritical if i said said something negative about non-hijabi girls…but i didnt.

???
u said u KNOW it is in the quran and it is in sync of what allah ordered a woman to do.without translating ofcourse…
we ALL know what the quran says about those that dont follow allah’s orders
we all know what hell’s gonna be like
u know what this implies about a non-hijabi?

if u cant respect a person’s right to disbelieve, dont expect them to respect your right to believe.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@evilmastermind

oh boy, jiss nay samajhna ho woh chutki may samajh jaye jiss nay na samajhna ho woh pahar daykh kar bhi na samjhay…Allah Hafiz!

EMM…your absolutely right. People who want to change for the better will understand. those that dont will nvr get it.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@shweetdreamz

???
u said u KNOW it is in the quran and it is in sync of what allah ordered a woman to do.without translating ofcourse…
we ALL know what the quran says about those that dont follow allah’s orders
we all know what hell’s gonna be like
u know what this implies about a non-hijabi?

if u cant respect a person’s right to disbelieve, dont expect them to respect your right to believe.

that still doesnt tell me how im being hypocritical. anyway forget it…you can say whatever you want about me. But when one denies Allah (SWT) order it is my job to tell them the truth. I’ve done that…up to u to believe it or not.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@AnGeL EyEs

that still doesnt tell me how im being hypocritical. anyway forget it…you can say whatever you want about me. But when one denies Allah (SWT) order it is my job to tell them the truth. I’ve done that…up to u to believe it or not.

who denied allah?

i asked u where he says headgear is mandatory

u never answered.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@shweetdreamz

who denied allah?

i asked u where he says headgear is mandatory

u never answered.

sorry that was a typo..i meant to say Allah’s order…i corrected that.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

fine gurl....arguments over :)
:p
just do me a favor ok...when u and evil are in heaven and i am rotting in hell....for the sake of knowing me on GS please ask allah to cut me some leeway and lemme in too :(
this just in case u are right and i am wrong.....

[Crescent]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

Alright, Lets get started.

@Sahar02

I am not asking you to interpret anything for me, thank you.** I can read** and I don’t need to rely on your narrow and passive understanding of religion. I was attempting to have a discussion and to learn from the actual hadith and Quranic verses.

**1. **Yes, you are asking me to interpret because after the second time I told you what the degrees meant (when you asked about the ‘contradictions’) you asked again, and AGAIN I explained to you in colour coding what I was saying. And you were asking me to interpret. Here is what you asked “*but as we can clearly see, the method and degree of covering is under debate” *and AGAIN I corrected you and told you to read.

**2. **Its obvious you cannot read.

**3. **You are considering the Prophet’s Sunnah as narrow minded. Therefore, thats YOUR belief, It doesn’t mean its narrow minded to those who follow it. Secondly, If you read the post (I can see why not) you would have seen the Quranic Verses and Ayahs.

@Munni

I grew up in America and I can say with certainty that women in this society are seen as objects. Every which way. I cant believe people will say women are not seen as objects here. You have to be kidding me.

**WOW,**munni alot of people don’t realise that, and then complain about being treated bad and with sexual remarks.

@Sara516

Please, tell me where does Shariah say that a woman deserves to get raped if she’s dressed a certain way.

Re-read her post. And see that AGAIN you’re using straw man arguments. Sara, its pointless to answer you if you keep doing that.

@MehnazQ

Before Crescent comes back with his colour coding effects, let me just add that I feel strongly on this issue cause I’ve seen sexual abuse victims (children and grown females) up close and seen how much being molested/raped affects them. No, they were not at a bar, dressed in shorts or a tank top or anything like that. There is no way (for me at least) that anybody can justify doing such a disgusting thing to women. There are people out there that make it sound like they committing a rape is a noble and worthy act, “well she deserved it” is the answer they come back with, or “look at how she was dressed”. Please. Wait till it happens to a loved one and then say those words.

**1. **You’re eyes itchy or something? So many rolling eyes, shows me the seriousness with how you’re handling this topic.

**2. **The distinction in UrANgel’s reply lies in ASKING for rape, and Getting Raped in general. Can you not see? Maybe if you stopp rolling your eyes and focus on the post

@choti.moti

Maybe you should take a deeper look into ISLAM rather than the “ISLAMIC COUNTRIES”. Woman are not degraded or looked down upon at all, and there are serveral Hadith and verses from the Quran supporting that. A Muslim woman should never be ashamed. There is a difference between the example of a Muslim that we have been given and ‘Muslims’ that portray the incorrect messege.

Cressi, awesome post. I read the whole thing and really liked it. Lots of stuff up there I didn’t know. Jazak Allah.

The MOST appropiate and well understood post I’ve seen all day. Unfortunately, these new ‘muslims’ are questioning their own religion are now going astray to even question the QURAN!

THanks for reading the whole thing. I wish more people knew how to read

@choti.moti

If you’ve never picked it up then how can you be so sure?

There are references (even in Cressi’s posts) that state that woman should not be ‘flirting’ with men and vice versa (obviously not in those exact words).

People fail to see that, and then come on here trying to ‘defend’ something. While opposing the teachings of Rasuulallah s.a.w.

Disgusting.

@choti.moti

Originally Posted by Sara516
. Do we ask people who got robbed “well you shouldn’t’ve stuff like that” or do we blame a murder victim by passing it off as wrong time/place?

No, however if the people are calling or ‘attracting’ such situations, then they should be blamed and have no right to complain.

**Refer below to my example in RED. **

@shweetdreamz

are they attracting by having a lavish house? expensive furniture? it is true that it is common sense to not go to a deprived place with diamond rings in every finger but does that justify the crime? is it OK to wear the diamond rings in places where everyone else is wearing diamond rings but not in particular deprived areas?

Refer below to my example in RED.

@shweetdreamz

what is islamic clothing? a cultural practice(piece of cloth) that became a status symbol?
the tent did not protect the women in afghanistan from being molested and dragged on the street.
women in america parade in minis but do not get raped every time they wear it because thank GOD they have LAWS and no islamic shariah that would justify it. but some still get raped…just like some with hijab still get raped…conclusion: rape is a crime that can happen regardless of dress.

**1. Islamic **clothing that was established since the time women were treated like objects. To protect them further.

**2. **WOMEN IN AMERICA DO NOT GET RAPED!? OH MY GOD!..NOW i know the type of intellectual level we’re dealing with. wow!

**

@AnGeL EyEs

who gets raped more often? women observing the hijab or women w/o it? Do the research..i assure you you will find that women w/o hijab get raped more often. I never implied that women with hijab NEVER get raped. I simply said this is how they will protect themselves…this is what ALLAH (SWT) and the PROPHET (SAW) has told me.

Research is what most lack. And post here as if they are the smartest bunch of the bush.

@shweetdreamz

Women being treated like a sex object has NOTHING to do with the way she dresses. it is the MID-SET of ‘some’ men that will continue to see her as an object whether she works shoulder to shoulder with him in the office, wears a mini, a sweatshirt or covers her hair.
if u want to protect women, teach your boys a thing or two about respect for them.

So why don’t strippers just wear long clothing in bars and clubs? Tell me if she’ll be treated as sex objec tthen or not.

Claims need proof miss. Provide them.

@AnGeL EyEs

women need to respect themselves by covering their bodies first! They wont get respect from men if they prance around in bikini’s and low cut shirts.

Exactly.

@Seminole

Does anyone else find it strange that God requires all of mankind to learn a difficult, regional language in order to follow his rules? Did He error by not revealing it English, Spanish, French or some other universal language?

First, God asks man to submit, believe in Tawheed (acknowledge one god, his oneness and believe in his Prophets, Books, angels, the good and the bad etc.)

Then he asks them to follow the religion.

Real muslims understand all of it, and the translated version of the Quran is for everyone who has that submissive mind and understands the concept.

@Blitzkrieg

Why was bible revealed in latin?

The same reason Reformation took place. If Martin Luther hadn’t converted it.
Now you have Protestants and Catholics, go figure.

@MehnazQ

The things I’m reading in this thread are getting more and more disturbing.

As long as the attitude is out there that women deserve to be raped and the men who do it are not in the wrong, then there is no hope at all.

**1. **Yes they are getting more disturbing. This post of yours is quite ironic

**2. First being however old you are, should have read and understood the posts more clearly.
(a) Women who wear clothing as such get more raped than those who cover themselves.
(b) A women who wears revealing clothing is more inviting the rapist to come and rape her, as oppose to those who cover themselves.
(c) UrAngel’s posts did not imply that whichever women get raped, the women is to blame all the time. So learn to READ.

@shweetdreamz

1. since i am lost in translation and u KNOW the word is there…can u tell me why the scholars who translate(who MUST have command over arabic) from arabic to english did not add headgear?(they only put bosoms) i am not making it up “its a fact”

Allah says in the Holy Quran,

“Oh Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veil) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Abu Hurairah [font=AGA Arabesque]t reported Allah’s messenger [font=AGA Arabesque]e having said this, “Two kinds of people would be in the worst situation in Hell. First, those officials who would carry with them whips looking like the tails of cows and they would use them for whipping people. Secondly, those women who would be naked despite wearing clothes (due to wearing see through and tight clothes) who would attract strangers (men) towards them and will themselves be attracted to them. Their heads will be on a side like the humps of fast camels. They will neither enter Paradise nor would they even smell the fragrance of Paradise which will reach for distances.”(Abu Daud)

“Oh Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw over them their jilbaabs (cloaks). That in the least so that they be recognised and not be molested.” (Surah Ahzaab) “And remain within your homes and do not make an exibition ( of your selves) like the displays (of the immoral women) of former times of ignorance.” (Surah Ahzaab)

**Shweet dreamz **- If you had read the original post, you would have found everything there.

@MehnazQ

I already know what Islam says Angel Eyes. It’s nice to see people jumping up and down, demanding that the Islamic rules of conduct be prescribed to women yet not to men though.

**1. **Right, this thread is about Hijaab, not how Men will be punished. If curious, start a new thread please.

@evilmastermind

HOOOOOOOOOOLLLDDDDDD UPP!!

How come this thread is taking a twist into rape vs. hijaab?? I thought cressi post is mainly telling the points and reasons of wearing hijaab, then how come we are comparing one wearing hijaab or whther getting raped or not?
.

Yes, People want to justify not wearing hijaab by bringing up Rape. Go figure.

@Sara516

I think this thread should be split, there’s 2 discussions going on here, 1 abt hijab the other about rape..i hope one of em replies to my pm

Funny, you started the rape debate anyways! Took an example of her Rape, and **AFTER I STATED SO MANY TIMES **failed to open NEW THREADS or PMed ANYONE, instead you started posting paragraphs on Rape.

@AnGeL EyEs

im not going to wear a hijab until im ready to wear it. that doesnt mean that im going to deny the truth. some of us know that we have to pray 5 times a day…does everyone do it?

This is what differentiates you from the misguided people. Always admit when you’re doing something wrong.

NEVER JUSTIFY IT.

FOR THOSE WHO TURNED THE DISCUSSION INTO RAPE BECAUSE THEY CAN’T JUSTIFY THEMSELVES ACCORDING TO SUNNAH AND QURAN ON WHY HIJAAB IS IN PRACTICE. REFER BELOW.

This is what UrANgel meant. ANd Rational people agree to.

**YOU ARE COVERED IN DIAMONDS, AND GOLD. YOU WALK TO YOUR HOUSE (LETS SAY IN PAKISTAN) YOU KNOW THIS AREA IS BAD, AND THAT YOU WILL GET ROBBED IF YOU WEAR SUCH THINGS. ROBBERS COME UP TO YOU AND THEIF YOU, YOU LOOK ACROSS THE STREET, YOUR NEIGHBOUR WHO KNOWS THAT ROBBERS WILL STEAL FROM YOU IF YOU WEAR DIAMONDS, IS NOT WEARING ANYTHING OF SUCH SORT. THEREFORE YOU GET ROBBED, NOT HER. THIS IS THE WOMEN’S FAULT FOR KNOWING, AND FURTHER PROVOKING THE RAPIST. **

**HOWEVER, IF SOMEONE WAS ROBBED IN GENERAL, BECAUSE OF THE THINKING OF THE RAPIST, THEN THATS THE RAPIST FAULT. **

**I WILL STATE THIS LAST TIME, START A NEW THREAD IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT RAPE, AND LEAVE THIS TO HIJAAB. **

**PEOPLE ARE DENYING HIJAAB, BUT FAILING TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE FROM THE QURAN AND SUNNAH.

STICK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND AND DISCUSS THE HIJAAB UPON THE READINGS FROM MY POST!

**THANK YOU. **

**

[shweetdreamz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

crescent bhai....i am done with this thread...sorry aap ne dair lagga dee...

[fghd]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

Thanx CRESSI i was waiting for ur reply!

[Crescent]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

And I KNOW my replies are harsh.

They have to be, or you people don't understand. And further bring up irrelevant points and things that have nothing to do with hijaab, and further try to degrade the Sunnah and Quranic Ayahs, without paying any attention to them in the first post.
I do Apologize for such harsh comments towards everyone, but I've explained so many times, and people are NOT getting it.

Sorry again.

I hope we can just keep this to the discussion now.

Salam

[Mehnaz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

Crescent, I believe you have already been asked to be more respectful when talking to others here. If you have not, let me ask you now to be civil instead of telling others they are blind. There is an air of arrogance about it which puts people off. Much appreciated.

What is interesting is that you don’t see how offensive UrAngel’s post, which is what started the whole rape debate, not Sara516 who was simply responding to her. Khair, I have no wish to discuss this topic further with individuals who choose to insult others instead of talking maturely. The fact that I gave some close examples of people who I know and who are dear to me who have been raped and molested which you so kindly dismissed shows how **you **are handling this topic. Please, don’t point fingers unless you are prepared to get it in return.

Happy posting.

[Crescent]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@MehnazQ

Crescent, I believe you have already been asked to be more respectful when talking to others here. If you have not, let me ask you now to be civil instead of telling others they are blind. There is an air of arrogance about it which puts people off. Much appreciated.

What is interesting is that you don’t see how offensive UrAngel’s post, which is what started the whole rape debate, not Sara516 who was simply responding to her. Khair, I have no wish to discuss this topic further with individuals who choose to insult others instead of talking maturely. The fact that I gave some close examples of people who I know and who are dear to me who have been raped and molested which you so kindly dismissed shows how **you **are handling this topic. Please, don’t point fingers unless you are prepared to get it in return.

Happy posting.

Yes I am respectfull. Ask yourself the same question.

I don’t find UrAngel’s post offensive, because it wasn’t. See now what you didn’t understand along with many people, and that me and others did understand?

Ignorance is when there are fallacies, where have i committed such? Show me, I explained and clearified EVERYTHING for your. The wind is cmoing from somewhere

Kindly explain what your relatives /friends experience have to do with the topic of UrAngel’s post?

May we be guided

[Sara516]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

Crescent, I beg to differ; you are not being respectful to anyone who does not share your opinion. Many of us found her post offensive, and commented on it; it's not our fault that you're too ignorant to see the wrong in her statement. In past threads as well, someone has provided real life examples and you quickly and rudely dismissed them. You are only being respectful to the ones who agree with you and that's not right.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

crescent- i asked for a translation of "bosom" and how that turned to headgear...and u posted all those ayah's for me...i coulda looked it up too u know. please go back read my exact question.
i have a problem with the ayah on woman staying at home and the one about exercising modesty to be "recognized" and avoiding "molestation" i wish there was a separate thread on it.
u win. i cant compete with "groupthink" and people running to each other's rescue, cheering each other on and write the same thing again and again.

[Crescent]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@Sara516

Crescent, I beg to differ; you are not being respectful to anyone who does not share your opinion. Many of us found her post offensive, and commented on it; it’s not our fault that you’re too ignorant to see the wrong in her statement. In past threads as well, someone has provided real life examples and you quickly and rudely dismissed them. You are only being respectful to the ones who agree with you and that’s not right.

I beg to differ again.
Do not make me bring up your sarcastic remarks.

I already told you what she meant in her post, therefore its not wrong. Instead of complainign about rape, why don’t you be more rational and then counter argue my clearifications. WHY, is it so hard to understand?

The examples someone provided, ok they provided here is the following about them.

1. Yes its sad people go through such things.

2. Rape is just not with those people, it happens everywhere in the world, and everyone is aware of it.

3. A few example of rapes, i can give many!

4. What would me having not dismissed them in my replies done to further reiterate my stand?

5. Stop disrespecting my religion so I can be more respectful towards people.

[Crescent]

Re: A Comprehensive Look into The Hijaab

@shweetdreamz

crescent- i asked for a translation of “bosom” and how that turned to headgear…and u posted all those ayah’s for me…i coulda looked it up too u know. please go back read my exact question.
iu win. i cant compete with “groupthink” and people running to each other’s rescue, cheering each other on and write the same thing again and again.

You said in Quran it mentions bosom, its a fact. I proved you wrong. Is this not rational posting?

go to google, type arabic to english translation. And do your query on “bosom”.
or ask an arabic speaking person.

i have a problem with the ay have a problem with the ayah on woman staying at home and the one about exercising modesty to be “recognized” and avoiding “molestation” i wish there was a separate thread on it.

So if you don’t agree, yes make a seperate thread. But the only thing wrong with this statement is that you’ve misunderstood the whole ayah and the explanation.

Now you’re thinking that women should never leave home.
So meaning you never want to stay home? u wanna be out ALL the time?
Read my When Women Emerge, and the First posts I made.