A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

[Ask99]

What are your view. The pros that I think are
Quicker graduation from the Masters and the Bachelors, as they let you waive about 12 credit hours, and I have heard that one can finish the Grad in about a year more.
I have yet to meet the graduate adviser, but the undergrad advisor says that one big flaw s that it does not let you have your Undergrad degree before you are done with your Masters.
Another flaw she pointed out was that as people go off and start working they may think that they would want to do their Masters in another concentration.This point is pretty valid to me but then again I was thinking doing your Graduate degree before one looks for a job, doesn’t that put one in a better spot. What do you guys think.

Another degree plan that I have been looking at is the J.D/MBA combination. Both can be done in 4 years. And comments on that.
Right now I guess Im more concerned with the educational learning part of it all rather then what the jobs specifically need.

[X2]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

The biggest issue may be that the person can be under-experienced and over-qualified for the job to start with
later that can be a little bit of an issue moving up because ppl may question the value u got out of the grad degree
the point that the person may want a diff concentration is valid but shortsighted. First of all that may be true not just in the first few years of your career so what if 10 years later u want to focus on something else. That's why continuing education is a must.

As far as jd/MBA goes do look into what you want to do and what it preps you for.

[Lucid_Chaotic]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

I too have mixed feelings about the whole combined undergrad/grad – accelerated programs.

For some fields, it makes absolute sense to think about a graduate degree from an early stage since a graduate degree is a requirement to work in the field. Psychology is a prime example where 5-year programs are very effective in terms of time and money spent. If you want to make a career out of Psychology, a graduate degree is required.

For some other types of combined programs, I think there’s something to be said about getting some work experience under your belt before deciding to invest another two years of your life in a program which in the end may or may not pay off depending upon your preferences later on in life.

If you’re considering combined programs, make sure you understand the difference between Joint Programs and Dual Programs. With the former, you will not get your undergraduate degree until you have all the requirements of the graduate degree completed as well, whereas the Dual program offers the opportunity to get the undergraduate degree a couple of terms before the graduate degree is granted.

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

The biggest issue may be that the person can be under-experienced and over-qualified for the job to start with later that can be a little bit of an issue moving up because ppl may question the value u got out of the grad degree the point that the person may want a diff concentration is valid but shortsighted. First of all that may be true not just in the first few years of your career so what if 10 years later u want to focus on something else. That's why continuing education is a must.

As far as jd/MBA goes do look into what you want to do and what it preps you for.

I keep on thinking that if I would start working, its kind of hard stopping like maybe after two-three years and going for a Masters then. I guess I am personally looking at it all with tunnel vision.
Your point is very valid about what is gotten out of the grad school without the experience.
But it just seem so much easier getting the educational stuff out of the way and then concentrating on the job part.

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

I too have mixed feelings about the whole combined undergrad/grad – accelerated programs.

For some fields, it makes absolute sense to think about a graduate degree from an early stage since a graduate degree is a requirement to work in the field. Psychology is a prime example where 5-year programs are very effective in terms of time and money spent. If you want to make a career out of Psychology, a graduate degree is required.

For some other types of combined programs, I think there’s something to be said about getting some work experience under your belt before deciding to invest another two years of your life in a program which in the end may or may not pay off depending upon your preferences later on in life.

If you’re considering combined programs, make sure you understand the difference between Joint Programs and Dual Programs. With the former, you will not get your undergraduate degree until you have all the requirements of the graduate degree completed as well, whereas the Dual program offers the opportunity to get the undergraduate degree a couple of terms before the graduate degree is granted.

I think our University offers the Joint program only, and that was what the undergrad advisor was saying.I have yet to meet the graduate advisor and to get the details.
Another thing is that there are some changes in the degree program that will allow me to finish the undergrad quicker then expected because of fewer hours requirement.That has gotten me thinking of the joint program more. Like I mentioned earlier, I am just thinking with my personal situation I can either work or go to school not both and it would be kind of hard to start working and then stopping for grad school. But then as X2 mentioned about getting the value out of the Masters without the work experience.

What do you think about the combined JD/MBA programs?

[Dushwari]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

dear Ask99,
it's better to be in a 4 years college, complete UG & then apply to a PhD instead of a combined B.A./M.A. or B.S./M.S. program.
the best programs i have heard are either in pharmacy or in sciences such as chemistry or math majors.
for liberal arts, a combined prog., i am not sure how good it might be. you can check the university admissions and programs offered websites or call them to ask.
good luck!

best,

Dushwari

[Lucid_Chaotic]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

dear Ask99, it's better to be in a 4 years college, complete UG & then apply to a PhD instead of a combined B.A./M.A. or B.S./M.S. program.i

But Dushwari... a Ph.D. is a special case and not everyone wants to go into research or academia. We're generally talking about getting up to that grad degree which in almost all cases is a requirement these days to guarantee serious consideration for career advancement. Remember that not all Masters programs are research oriented... so a Ph.D. experience is going to be considerably different from that of a Masters in a lot of academic programs - esp. professional graduate degree programs like MBA, LLM etc. or even other coursework oriented Masters programs.

What do you think about the combined JD/MBA programs?

I guess the JD/MBA is a different beast in its own... don't you require at least two years of undergraduate experience before you can be considered for admission into the joint program? So you're looking at a total of around 6 years??

In any case, a JD/MBA is lucrative in terms of marketability and many grads get placed directly in an associate role in a practice... you just need to ask yourself whether you have a real desire to practice law or not. The opportunity cost of 2 years to pursue a degree that you're not going to use needs to be measured in terms of time, money and opportunities forgone. Additionally, do you see yourself applying for bar in the state or province of your residence? An MBA in itself is applicable across a variety of industries and professions whereas a JD is not. A couple of areas where I do see a JD/MBA being extremely handy are areas of M&A and Labor Relations.

Having said all this, I will come back to your original post where you said:

Right now I guess Im more concerned with the educational learning part of it all rather then what the jobs specifically need.

From purely a learning perspective, a JD/MBA is a very rich undertaking. Typically, business schools train you to think strategically while understanding the details. On the other hand, Law schools train you to focus on the details while you formulate a broad strategy. This subtle difference in approaches will give you an extremely strong basis to fit into different types of job roles.

I can say this based on my own experience. I came from a technical background in computer science, where I was trained to consider a lot of small details in my work... the MBA gave me the ability to look at the big picture. Consequently, I was able to approach problems with a practical blending of both perspectives.

[X2]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

ask99

The biggest thing is what you see yourself doing and what gets you there. With a jd/MBA it may not be what you have said you want to do.

Changing mind about what u want to do is fine though

[Dushwari]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

i agree, Umar. what happened to your sign on?

in any event, i was simply telling her time wise and quality wise, what she might want to explore when she will consider going into a combined program.

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

dear Ask99, it's better to be in a 4 years college, complete UG & then apply to a PhD instead of a combined B.A./M.A. or B.S./M.S. program. the best programs i have heard are either in pharmacy or in sciences such as chemistry or math majors. for liberal arts, a combined prog., i am not sure how good it might be. you can check the university admissions and programs offered websites or call them to ask. good luck!

best, Dushwari

I had my Marketing proffesor suggest me that path too but purely if I 'd want to go into academia and research..which as of yet I havent thought of a lot. I was talking to him about being moe interested in learning(the educational part right now rather then the practical implications and he told me thats the reason he went ahead and got his Phd.But as of now I cant see myself in that field.Research interests me but not the teaching:)

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

But Dushwari... a Ph.D. is a special case and not everyone wants to go into research or academia. We're generally talking about getting up to that grad degree which in almost all cases is a requirement these days to guarantee serious consideration for career advancement. Remember that not all Masters programs are research oriented... so a Ph.D. experience is going to be considerably different from that of a Masters in a lot of academic programs - esp. professional graduate degree programs like MBA, LLM etc. or even other coursework oriented Masters programs.

I guess the JD/MBA is a different beast in its own... don't you require at least two years of undergraduate experience before you can be considered for admission into the joint program? So you're looking at a total of around 6 years??

I havent done indepth research on this option as it is offered in a different university then the one I am currently at. I have talked to a Law proffesor at my University and he was telling me about this collegue of his tht has done this. Corporate Law and MBA is a good combination according to him. But anyway I need to find out more.

[QUOTE]
In any case, a JD/MBA is lucrative in terms of marketability and many grads get placed directly in an associate role in a practice... you just need to ask yourself whether you have a real desire to practice law or not. The opportunity cost of 2 years to pursue a degree that you're not going to use needs to be measured in terms of time, money and opportunities forgone. Additionally, do you see yourself applying for bar in the state or province of your residence? An MBA in itself is applicable across a variety of industries and professions whereas a JD is not. A couple of areas where I do see a JD/MBA being extremely handy are areas of M&A and Labor Relations.

[/QUOTE]

What you have said about the
Having said all this, I will come back to your original post where you said:

From purely a learning perspective, a JD/MBA is a very rich undertaking. Typically, business schools train you to think strategically while understanding the details. On the other hand, Law schools train you to focus on the details while you formulate a broad strategy. This subtle difference in approaches will give you an extremely strong basis to fit into different types of job roles.

I can say this based on my own experience. I came from a technical background in computer science, where I was trained to consider a lot of small details in my work... the MBA gave me the ability to look at the big picture. Consequently, I was able to approach problems with a practical blending of both perspectives.
[/quote]

That is really interesting. I do agree that the combination of JD/MBA would add to the spectrum of the way of thinking. Bigger picture combined with the understanding of the details.
Its just currently Im researching all of my options way in advance.My undergrad is going to be in Marketing and Im just thinking in advance of the options and weighing them out.Thank You for your rich input. I really appreciate it.

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

ask99

The biggest thing is what you see yourself doing and what gets you there. With a jd/MBA it may not be what you have said you want to do.

Changing mind about what u want to do is fine though

I am looking at some of the options that I may or maynot want to pursue. My undergard is in Marketing but Im not sure of what I'd want to pursue later.:)

[X2]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

@Ask99

I am looking at some of the options that I may or maynot want to pursue. My undergard is in Marketing but Im not sure of what I'd want to pursue later.:)

its fine to be pursue something different later, and whatever you pick now there is a good chance that you will move in a different direction 5-10-15 years later anyways.

But..

whatever direction you want to go in right now, you need to figure that out and take courses that are applicable to what you think you want to do right now.

otherwise you can take environment, healthcare, technology as well because you may want to do those later.

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

@X2

its fine to be pursue something different later, and whatever you pick now there is a good chance that you will move in a different direction 5-10-15 years later anyways.

But..

whatever direction you want to go in right now, you need to figure that out and take courses that are applicable to what you think you want to do right now.

otherwise you can take environment, healthcare, technology as well because you may want to do those later.

I went to the Graduate advisor today. And she filled in the gaps of the degree plan.They offer this joint degree and abt 6 of the courses would be waived from graduate degree and then about 4 more in undergrad. Also there is a new state law coming that will get rid of 2-3 more elective couses. From Practicality the remaining hours in Grad degree are about 27. which can easily be finished up in 2-3 semesters.
I dont know just this picture seems too good to be true.Getting the MBA out of the way because I very well know That when I start working ..its goingt to be really hard stopping and then going back to school.
I do agree that I may want to do something else, but as of now I just feel that an undergrad may not be enough to get an edge over the rest. What do you think?

[X2]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

I have been thinking, and If i was in your position I would go for the MBA, and the reasona re very simple, you are a non traditional student, the advise I would give to a 22 yr old finishing the undergrad does not always apply to you. What you would need to do is two things

1- u have work experience that we talked about, I am being vague on purpose because I dont know how much of that you have shared openly on gS, anyways, so when you do finish the degree you should highlight it.

2- on your resume, dont put your undergrad graduation date, just put your MBA date, and then in the experience section list the job and all.

what this means is that it would be soemthing like

education
xyz Uni
MBA 2009

experience:

company abc 2003-2007
accompishment1
2
3

versus

reason?

well if i was looking at a resume for someone who seemed to have done their MBa and undergrad together and I did nto know anything about them I would think they dont have experience.

writing it that way, i see that you ahve experience, i see that you have and MBA, it seems like you did your undergrad, worked fulltime and then went for MBA.

now if it comes up in interview fine dont hide it, note that you worked fulltime and hen got your undergrad and grad together, but by then you are in front of the hiring ppl and teh battle is half won.

let me know if my rationale and recommendation sounds confusing

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

@X2

I have been thinking, and If i was in your position I would go for the MBA, and the reasona re very simple, you are a non traditional student, the advise I would give to a 22 yr old finishing the undergrad does not always apply to you. What you would need to do is two things

1- u have work experience that we talked about, I am being vague on purpose because I dont know how much of that you have shared openly on gS, anyways, so when you do finish the degree you should highlight it.

2- on your resume, dont put your undergrad graduation date, just put your MBA date, and then in the experience section list the job and all.

what this means is that it would be soemthing like

education xyz Uni MBA 2009

experience:

company abc 2003-2007 accompishment1 2 3

versus

reason?

well if i was looking at a resume for someone who seemed to have done their MBa and undergrad together and I did nto know anything about them I would think they dont have experience.

writing it that way, i see that you ahve experience, i see that you have and MBA, it seems like you did your undergrad, worked fulltime and then went for MBA.

now if it comes up in interview fine dont hide it, note that you worked fulltime and hen got your undergrad and grad together, but by then you are in front of the hiring ppl and teh battle is half won.

let me know if my rationale and recommendation sounds confusing

The format makes a lot of sense. I guess the placement of the words may get me till the interview. I am planning to get an internship ,hopefully two of them. Job experience I'd say I have like the one I mentioned to you, about 3 different fields. I dont know if that will be considered enough but as you said that getting to the point of interview is half the battle.
One another thing I wanted before I came to know about this program was maybe going to a better "brand" university for my Masters but the same may not be offered there. I will find out during summer. What do you think. I was thinking ...will it make a whole lot of difference?
I have also gotten involved with the local AMA collegiate chapter also.The BMA doesnt have a chapter at our school but I will think abt joining that a bit later.

[X2]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

between yoru current choice and SMU, yes it will make a difference.
anyone shoukd try to go to as good of a school as they can afford and get into. it can only help even if it is just the launch.

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

I guess it really would:bummer:…The grad advisor jusst kept on repeating the AACSB thing.But anyway I would find out more in abt a month or less. Its just practically easy to remain where I am at, but then again doesnt hurt to find out more information abt that. Thanks for your indepth replies X2.

[X2]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

AACSB accreditation is important and your current school has itr and from all I know its not a bad school. if u can get into smu, can fford it and it will not create too much havoc with your plans, do it, otherwise stay where you are, either way at the end of the day you would be better off then you are now.

and u are always welcome

[Ask99]

Re: A Combined Graduate and Undergraduate Program?

@X2

AACSB accreditation is important and your current school has itr and from all I know its not a bad school. if u can get into smu, can fford it and it will not create too much havoc with your plans, do it, otherwise stay where you are, either way at the end of the day you would be better off then you are now.

and u are always welcome

Lets see. As soon as I find out what accelerated courses SMU offers. I had also found out about UT Austin offering MBA courses here on weekends.(very expensive though..but almost same as SMU..but admission acceptance rate is pretty low)I was previously thinking of them.Then another thing was I was thinking about the MBA's that the hiring companies provide the expenses for as part of the continuing education package...Okay I should stop with the ifs and buts and focus on what current information I have and work from there.
..Thanks Again