This is for the muslims who believe that Allah is the one who should be obeyed in all walks of life, the ones who believe that Islam is a comprehensive and complete way of life and the ones who believe that the muslims should live their entire life according to Islam.
I question you, Is it possible for a muslim to live his whole life according to Islam in a Kufr society i.e that of the West. Would you claim that by praying 5 times a day you are living the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW).
For the one who applies thought can realise and conclude that if Islam is a “complete way of life” this would mean that it has an answer to all of lifes scenarios and problems i.e. cloning is a new issue and when we go back to the Quran and sunnah we obtain an answer of whether it is allowed.
The same way when the muslims realise that they are obliged to live thier whole life in accordance with Islam, so this would mean that the economic, social, judicial and the military field has to be regulated in accordance with Islam. Hence the need for a Khilafah state (Islamic State) to implement the laws of Allah (not like our muslim countries where the majority of rules are man made) so that the muslims can live thier whole life according to Islam. My challenging question to you is “Without the Islamic State can the muslims live thier whole lives according to Islam?” Hint: If living in a secular society (Where Islam has no say in lifes affairs i.e the issue of Kashmir is dealt with man made laws and not Allahs laws) can Islam be comprehensively implemented?
[quote]
Originally posted by Khilafah1422:
**This is for the muslims who believe that Allah is the one who should be obeyed in all walks of life, the ones who believe that Islam is a comprehensive and complete way of life and the ones who believe that the muslims should live their entire life according to Islam.
I question you, Is it possible for a muslim to live his whole life according to Islam in a Kufr society i.e that of the West. Would you claim that by praying 5 times a day you are living the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW).
For the one who applies thought can realise and conclude that if Islam is a "complete way of life" this would mean that it has an answer to all of lifes scenarios and problems i.e. cloning is a new issue and when we go back to the Quran and sunnah we obtain an answer of whether it is allowed.
The same way when the muslims realise that they are obliged to live thier whole life in accordance with Islam, so this would mean that the economic, social, judicial and the military field has to be regulated in accordance with Islam. Hence the need for a Khilafah state (Islamic State) to implement the laws of Allah (not like our muslim countries where the majority of rules are man made) so that the muslims can live thier whole life according to Islam. My challenging question to you is "Without the Islamic State can the muslims live thier whole lives according to Islam?" Hint: If living in a secular society (Where Islam has no say in lifes affairs i.e the issue of Kashmir is dealt with man made laws and not Allahs laws) can Islam be comprehensively implemented?
**
[/quote]
Slm
Islam is the complete way of life and Muslim r required to struggle to follow it the best of possible way. We r not expected to be perfect rather to struggle to the perfection. Islam is so beautiful and eternal and median path that it can be establish in any culture and society.
To answer ur question form my view point ("Without the Islamic State can the muslims live their whole lives according to Islam?") is that Muslims r require to struggle in their way to Islam, rather then expected to born in golden Islamic boat and hence tidal wave will drive the boat to its goal without any struggle and effort. From the very little wot I learnt is that we will be judge on our knowledge, intention and effort not whatever we r born in Islamic state or in west.
Say its not possible to establish Islamic state in uk right now, it doesn’t stop a Muslim from following/learning his/her region as mush as he/she can in the environment he/she living.
By looking at our Prophet (pbuh) life history, Islamic state was not establish till quiet long after the perching of Islam. So b4 u go on abt establishing Islamic state we need to learn Islam first or else we might have Islamic state with corrupt government like we had in past.
[This message has been edited by iqra_786 (edited October 26, 2001).]
True, but what do we need to learn? When you have an objective, i.e to pray, you will strive to lean about the prayer, it's conditions, what nullifies it and the details. If your objective is to pray but you don't learn about it's practical method you will never achieve your objective . Likewise to Establish the Islamic State you will need to learn and understand the functions of an Islamic state and what is it's method to bring it into existence. Learning the theory only will make you like a donkey carrying books (as mentioned in one hadith). So my friend to say yes we need an Islamic state but then you expect that by learning your Salah (prayer) it will come into being. Never, just like when you want to work you practically go out and work directly.
You don't need to be a scholar to bring the Islamic state. You just need to be convinced of "La ilaha illallah, Muhammadar rasulullah" just like the people of madina, even though the majority were jews.
I know what I am going to say here is a concept very foreign and quite absurd to most Pakistanis.
In my opinion, a fundamental prerequisite for establishing a modern society for this century and beyond is to institutionalize the concept of separation of the mosque from the state. There are many religions and many sects of Islam in Pakistan. They may seem similar but when you get to the details, they are significantly different. Which sect is right? There are millions of individual interpretation of Islam's holy scriptures. Which interpretation is correct? The state has to respect people's individual beliefs and our basic Islamic values. But the state itself can't adopt a specific religion. The state must be secular as it is in 100% of the developed world.
Khilafa1422
I think everyone agrees with you and your question but the main question is what happens if there is no such state then should we sit down and do nothing. Your answer will be highly appreciated.
[quote]
Originally posted by khan_sahib:
**Khilafa1422
I think everyone agrees with you and your question but the main question is what happens if there is no such state then should we sit down and do nothing. Your answer will be highly appreciated.**
[/quote]
jazakallah khair KHAN SAHIB.
You mentioned what if there is no state. Before I mention anything else i think it is important to highlight the fact that islam does not have to be updated like windows 98, it is a complete and comprehensive system. I mentioned before, issues like cloning are new but the Quran and sunnah has a verdict on this, abortion which did not exist 1400 years ago, Islam has a say on this.
To comment on Khan sahib's point; when we talk about a state we are talking about a new system that will unite the separated ummah. For someone to bring a new system they must remove the old system Just like when there is an old building and you want to build a new building you must fist get rid of the old to establish the new. Simple point. To bring this Islamic state it will require hard work from the muslims that must work collectively as a political party to remove people like musharraf and the other puppet rulers in the Islamic world. So Allah will only give victory unless hard work is done just like the Prophet worked tirelessly with the sahaba to MAKE Islam dominate other man mane systems.
Khalifa1422
Please explain, in practical terms not theoretical, how you would go about creating the Khalifa state.
Assalama-alaikum brother
To answer your question in simple terms i would say that as muslims we have to accept what is the truth and reject everything else. So when Allah (swt) obliges the whole muslim Ummah “Aqeemus salaah” (establish prayer)we understand that we cannot pray anyway we want. The Quran and sunnah show us the method hence everything is complete as the theory and method has been shown. So when Allah (swt) says in surah al-maidah “those who do not govern by what Allah has revealed are the disbeleivers” and his (swt) saying “no,by your lord, they will never have true Iman until they make you (o muhammad)judge in all thier disputes”. To simplify: Out practical method must emanate from the Quran and Sunnah and not by our minds. So inevitably to follow the method of the prophet is an obligation as we would never claim that for our prayer method we follow Tony blairs method. The method of the prophet contained 3 stages. I will only briefly mention them, the rest could be found on the website www.khilafah.com. 1st: To call people to the objective of establishing Islamby convncing them intellectuly. When the individuals become part of a group they are cultured with Islam so as to make them capable of carrying the call. By continuing to call individuals, soon a big group would be formed. 2nd: which would openly interact with the society, challenging the corruption by the tongue and engaging in political struggle i.e. expose the corrupt leaders like the prophet did. After a public opinion is gained, the party would make contact with the armed forces i.e.the muslim army all over the world. After convincing the army as thier duty to bring back Islam the corrupt government would be over thrown with thier help. This indeed is the only method to bring back the khilafah, it is the method of our beloved rasul (saw) and it is 100% practical.
wa salaam
Assalama-alaikum brother
To answer your question in simple terms i would say that as muslims we have to accept what is the truth and reject everything else. So when Allah (swt) obliges the whole muslim Ummah “Aqeemus salaah” (establish prayer)we understand that we cannot pray anyway we want. The Quran and sunnah show us the method hence everything is complete as the theory and method has been shown. So when Allah (swt) says in surah al-maidah “those who do not govern by what Allah has revealed are the disbeleivers” and his (swt) saying “no,by your lord, they will never have true Iman until they make you (o muhammad)judge in all thier disputes”. To simplify: Out practical method must emanate from the Quran and Sunnah and not by our minds. So inevitably to follow the method of the prophet is an obligation as we would never claim that for our prayer method we follow Tony blairs method. The method of the prophet contained 3 stages. I will only briefly mention them, the rest could be found on the website www.khilafah.com. 1st: To call people to the objective of establishing Islamby convncing them intellectuly. When the individuals become part of a group they are cultured with Islam so as to make them capable of carrying the call. By continuing to call individuals, soon a big group would be formed. 2nd: which would openly interact with the society, challenging the corruption by the tongue and engaging in political struggle i.e. expose the corrupt leaders like the prophet did. After a public opinion is gained, the party would make contact with the armed forces i.e.the muslim army all over the world. After convincing the army as thier duty to bring back Islam the corrupt government would be over thrown with thier help. This indeed is the only method to bring back the khilafah, it is the method of our beloved rasul (saw) and it is 100% practical.
wa salaam
I am intrigued by the idea of Khilafa, looks good on paper.
Who is going to be the Khalifa, are there any candidates?
Muslims couldn’t peacefully decide on Khalifa when Rasool Allah had barely left the world. How do you expect them to do it 1400 years afterwards?!!?
Islam was so fresh and pure those days. Today its at its poorest
I would like to correct you. Islam is and never will be at it’s poorest. It’s the people who have been affected by thier societies and the western, secular view of Islam has dominated the scene for quiete a while but now it’s changing.
After the prophet died, there arose a situation whichwas tense i.e. people started to apostasize,people were not willing to pay the zakat, false prophets arose that were coming to destroy the Islamic state and many other tense elements. BUT after gathering in the court yard of bani saida, people started to discuss the issue and ideas like having more than one leader. But when Islam was referred to thier problem was solved because they knew Islam did not allow the muslim ummah to have more than one leader and that whoever the muslims chose he would become the leader. You can see the effects in our society today due to living life the western way. So there is a need not only just to elect a khalifa but the need to create awareness within the ummah about this issue.
Salaam
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nussairee:
I would like to correct you. Islam is and never will be at it’s poorest. It’s the people who have been affected by thier societies and the western, secular view of Islam has dominated the scene for quiete a while but now it’s changing.
After the prophet died, there arose a situation whichwas tense i.e. people started to apostasize,people were not willing to pay the zakat, false prophets arose that were coming to destroy the Islamic state and many other tense elements. BUT after gathering in the court yard of bani saida, people started to discuss the issue and ideas like having more than one leader. But when Islam was referred to thier problem was solved because they knew Islam did not allow the muslim ummah to have more than one leader and that whoever the muslims chose he would become the leader. You can see the effects in our society today due to living life the western way. So there is a need not only just to elect a khalifa but the need to create awareness within the ummah about this issue.
Salaam
Ok.. I'm all for a Caliph.
but wait..
would he be a he or a she?
a Sunni or a Shiite?
if Sunni, Barelvi, or Deobandi, or Hanafi,
and since Saudi Arabia is the richest Muslim country and has the 'oil' whip, would the Caliph be a Wahaabee?
There is no question of a Caliph being an Ahmedi or Agha Khani.. right?
Now certainly we can't ignore the huge muslim populations in Indonesia or India for that matter.. so would the Arab world be ok with an Indonesian Caliph?
hmmmm interesting.. I already see the infighting.
maybe the aggressors against Islam need to promote this idea rather than attack muslim countries, which is cementing Muslim opinion around the world.
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)
Khalifa Sahib,
I totally disagree with you.
[quote]
Is it possible for a muslim to live his whole life according to Islam in a Kufr society i.e that of the West. Would you claim that by praying 5 times a day you are living the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW).
For the one who applies thought can realise and conclude that if Islam is a "complete way of life" this would mean that it has an answer to all of lifes scenarios and problems
[/quote]
Yes you can ... without a shadow of doubt you can! The societies of 'west' have embraced the Islamic values of Freedom, which the Muslim world of today has lost. Who is stoping you from following your faith in a Non-Muslim country?
Let me point out to you that AnHazoor (saw) never asked Muslims to be a political power. Nor his whole life & struggle was for a political power. Only for submission towards Allah and a betterment in the 'spiritual' self of Human Beings his mission.
If Muslims of today make themselves more spiritual, & better Muslims than a Khalifa is bound to appear, as 'Allah makes true Khalifas' not us.
You have to understand that you can't put up a Khalifa & then think that will help the 'spiritual' health of the Ummah. Its actually the other way around. Always has been ... and always will be!
[QUOTE]
Yes you can ... without a shadow of doubt you can! The societies of 'west' have embraced the Islamic values of Freedom, which the Muslim world of today has lost. Who is stoping you from following your faith in a Non-Muslim country?
Let me point out to you that AnHazoor (saw) never asked Muslims to be a political power. Nor his whole life & struggle was for a political power. Only for submission towards Allah and a betterment in the 'spiritual' self of Human Beings his mission.
If Muslims of today make themselves more spiritual, & better Muslims than a Khalifa is bound to appear, as 'Allah makes true Khalifas' not us.
ahmed jee.
You mentioned that the west has embraced our values of freedom. I would lke to point out to you what exactly is so un-islamic about this freedom. The west promotes freedom of belief,personal freedom , freedom of ownership and freedom of expression.
Freedom of belief: The west says you can worship god, the devil, fire, wood or nothing. If you are a muslim and you apostasize the western values say it is perfectly fine whereas the Prophet (saw) said "he who cahnges his deen, kill him". This is why people like salman Rusdie are given protection even though they slandered the prophet.
Personal freedom:The west says, what you do in your private life is your business and they allow man and man to sleep together and they allow adultery to exist whereas Islam came to wipe out these corrupt practices.
Freedom of ownership: The West allows man to own anything he wants and that is why you see many muslims owning casino's and nightclubs. Also this freedom allows a man to privatise oil,gas and other resources whilst the prophet (saw) said "people are partners in three things, water, pastures and fire (related fuels). This is an economic policy from Islam forbidding the ownership of resources whilst the ummah is in need of them.
Freedom of expression: The west says it is perfectly fine to express yourself in any manner you want and hence you see people wanting to introduce section 28 (homosexual information) into the education curricula. this is totally forbidden by Islam.
so you see all the freedoms, which are the very basis of Western values, contradict Islam.
In a non-islamic society I can only practice my individual worships i.e. salaah, fasting etc... But we know Islam is more than that. For example Allah (swt) says "and hold to the rope of Allah and never be divided". This ayah is prohibiting the muslims to be disunited and we see the muslims have over 50 states (pakistani, bangladeshi, iraqi etc...), The prophet said "whosoever dies whilst there was no baya (oath of allegiance) to a khaleef dies the death of ignorance. I cannot practice this as the western values being promoted in the muslim world i.e the western ideas of divide and rule and each country has thier own ruler. Clearly Islam disallows this.
Islam says that the currency should be in gold and silver whilst we see this is not the case in the muslim countries or the west. All these things and so much more the muslim ummah cannot practice due to her living in an Un-islam society.
For your comment considering the Prophet(saw) and political power, I urge you to read the detailed seerah(life of the prophet) books. Even the scholars like Ibn Taymiya have written books like "siyasah al shariyah" "(politics of shariyah)". I agree with you that the Prophet was being submissive to Allah, and to prove my point of the prophet looking for political authority is, Allah (swt) asked the prophet to present himself to the many tribes that were visiting Maccah. The Prophet asked one tribe to accept Islam and protect his message and the tribe said"only if we can take leadership after you" at which the prophet said "Allah gives leadship to whom he wills". Another evidense is when the Prophet said to the Quraish "say La ilaha illallah and you will rule over the arabs and the non-arabs(the whole world). Indeed after the prophet migrated to Madina all the rules regarding punishment,wealth circulation, military preparation came down, which, were all Implemented and the Scholars say that the Prophet was the head of state and he was in controll of the affaris.
I hope i have clarrified the issue and indeed Islam is a unique system different to that of the west whos very basis say" rule of the people" where as Isalm says "Innil hukmo Illah lillah" "the rule is for Allah" [surah yousaf:40]
Assalama alaikum
A reply to my challenge would suffice.
Mr Khalifa
I posed you a question earlier on ( about how you would implement khalifa in practice etc). You gave a response and, judging from the response of others it seems you are a long way from your first goal , i.e convincing people intellectually.
Firsly, let me make a declaration - you are obviously very well versed in the Quran, I cannot match you in that qualification. Hence I am not going to quote verses to prove a point. However, what I would like to mention is that I have heard (especially these days) many people make quotations to support their different points of view - often the same quotations. For example, in all the quotations you make, I don't come to the same conclusions as you do. Imagine all the hundreds of thousands of hours that have gone into the study of the Quran and Sunnah -and yet still we arrive at differing interpretations - some at complete odds (such as sunni/shia)
What does this tell you ? It tells me that we are only human - that we try to make sense and understand things to the best of our abilities. It also tells me that we should make more use of the something which God has given us - our brain and common sense, i.e we should always ask ourselves 'what is the core message ?' , 'what is the intention ?'
And it is here I believe where your interpretaion falters. You are heavily focussed on the 'outer' i.e systems, methods, rituals, and not the 'inner', i.e the intention, the spiritual, the core message - which leads to a belief that somehow an outer system (the Khalifa) will automatically make us all into fantastic muslims. I wonder what you have in mind for people who disagree with you (and those you call 'kufrs') ?
You are also rather selective in your interpretaion - if we apply your concept consistently then we should all continue to ride on camels and live in tents. Why ?because that's excatly what our prophet (saw)did. Why don't we do that ? - because we know that the INTENTION was not to ride on camels but to get from A to B, or it wasn't to live in tents but that the INTENTION was shelter. Hence I feel you people have rather lost your way - your preoccupation with finite detail has meant you have lost sight of the big picture - and lost direction in a big way.
On the subject of the West - you mention all the negatives. Granted - that life isn't perfect - but I'm afraid that's life - I agree with Ahmedjee and others - it is how you live it that counts, and this includes the level of tolerence you show to people who have differing opinions to you. You mention a diatribe against western values of freedom, but I guess it must be a bit of a dilema for you as so many Islamic values are represented here - i.e you'll never starve, you'll have medical attention if you fall ill, there is equality of opportunity (at least by intent), you can practice your religion to your hearts desire. You can even write whatever nonsense you like on this site.
It seems our Christian brothers have come a long way since the crusades - they concentrate on sprituality and humanity, without the need for outward appearances. They can accomodate and tolerate different perspectives in their own ranks as well as others (you for instance). Maybe we have something to learn here.
My friend - you have a lot of thinking to do.
Salaam
Khalifa,
The forms of freedom that the west provides (or the Islam teaches) is the same freedom that Allah has bestowed upon each & every soul that he created & will create in the future!
Now if the soul uses his God given 'free will' to do immoral things. Then he will be answerable to Allah. Not me ... not you ... nor anyone else.
Though if he do something which is aganist the law of the land, then indeed be persecuted according to the law in a just manner. Allah says in Quran:
[quote]
*4:57. But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal home: Therein shall they have spouses purified: We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening.
4:58. Allah doth command you to render back your trusts to those to whom they are due; **And when ye judge between people, that ye judge with justice: **Verily how excellent is the teaching which He giveth you! For Allah is He Who heareth and seeth all things. *
[/quote]
AnHazoor (saw) never applied the Shariah towards the Non-Muslims. Nor it was considered 'the only' law of the land in his times. He gave freedom to the Jews/Christians/Pagans to worship who they wanted and how ever they deemed necessary!
And yes, you have the right to preach & practice your thoughts & ideas on Islam ... because you were given that right by Allah!