Re: 72 the Number and Negative PR
- Do numbers matter?
Personally, no. Hadith alone is saheeh and I'm at ease with it. Do I agree with the numbers in the hadith? Yes.
If the Quran has not specified a number about a certain item, but a hadith has, do we take it as a reality, or was it really meant as a metaphor?
I could be wrong, but you aren't very firm about ahadith. Saheeh ahadith are classes as saheeh because rigorous work and effort was put in to this work to ensure that the saheeh ahadith can actually be traced back to the Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Those who complied ahadith made sure that saheeh ahadith are coming straight from Prophet Muhammad (SAW) or have a direct root leading to it. Hence, it leaves very little room for argument over its authenticity. As for metaphor or not, Allahu aalim.
Did God really communicate the specific number 72 to the Rasul, and for what?
Allahu aalim and who are we to question why or why not Allah (SWT) communicated a specific number? Most of us do not have the sufficient knowledge and itellect to understand such delicate details. Therefore, it's best to refer to reputable scholars and foremost seek Allah's (SWT) guidance.
- If Sunni muslims - the majority of Muslims - take the hadith to be TRUE, then why is there now a vehement denial in the press of this "factoid", especially in light of increasing suicide bombings in which bombers use this information as part of their defense of their actions?
I'm quite sure that there must be a consensus amongst the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamah Sunni Muslims over this hadith. Suicide bombers do not use this as their basis to carry out their acts on this basis/fact/reasoning alone.
I'd like to know, mainly because when someone brings this up to me in real life, I've always told them the 72 Virgins thing is a myth - because I've seen educated muslims come on television after 911 and SAY that it is a myth.
Educated? Behn ji, forget educated Muslims. You gotta consult proper scholar and not mere so-called educated Muslims who read a few verses and decide to show up on tv differentiating facts from the myths.
Are Sunni Muslims finally responding to international pressure?
*The best we can do is clarify and try our best to admit that yes, it is our part of our religion, however, many of us may not be having sufficient information to properly answer this question. We could either find out for ourselves first and/or for them through scholars. *
What does 911 and suicide bombings have to do with 72 myth?
**From what I know, there are two views on suicide bombing
- It contradicts the ruling of matrydom
- It is a form of matrydom, as Muslims who are carrying out such events do not have other powerful resources to make their voices heard and get their point across. **
Lets see - this is how it goes:
- Suicide bombers make tapes before bombing and say they will get 72 hoors when they get to heaven.
I doubt the authenticity of most such videos that are broadcasted on Al-Jazeera, CNN and the like. If they happen to be authentic, believe me, a Muslim would not merely kill himself/herself for the sake of 72 hoors alone. There are many female suicide bombers as well. This cannot be the sole reason, as media potrays it to be. One has got to be having firm understanding of deen to be carrying out such acts. Again, I repeat, it does not revolve solely for the sake of hoors. There is more to matrydom than hoors alone. I'm sure those who have firm faith that such is an act of matrydom, they have other solid reasonsto carry it out.
- Western Media shows this to the whole world, and the whole world thinks muslims are barbaric
Just because Western media portrays us to be barbarics does not make us as such. Ignorant people may firmly believe in it, however, those who hang around with Muslims at school, work and elsewhere are well-aware that such is not the case.
- Islam gets a bad reputation, which is only worsened by 911 attacks.
Yes, it may have swayed the minds and hearts of many after what happened a few years ago, however, don't forget many did conver to Islam and there has got to be some truth in Islam, else you wouldn't see flocks converting. Also, whatever happened few years ago was a propoganda. Again, for that you need to consult alternative media sources and not CNN, FOX and the like alone.
- A lot of pressure upon the muslim community as to why so many muslims are out to attack Westerners, etc.
It is a test from Allah (SWT) and we have all got to be strong and be at our best (this goes for myself as wel). The educated and informed Muslims are well-aware of how to take care of such misconception that has been widely spread by the media.
- This leads to a reaction out of the muslim community - some members begin saying that the 72 virgins is a myth and that the Western Media is out to get muslims.
I doubt the authenticity of Sunni scholar who call this hadith a myth. Many of them are calling such ahadith myths just to please the Western media.
I've seen this denial on this forum myself, also, in addition to like everywhere else.
I was so surprised to see a hadith on it, as one could imagine.
Thus, I'd like to discuss the dynamics of how muslims are responding to the pressure around them exemplified by the 72 Virgins example.
It's up to you to accept a saheeh hadith or pretend that it's a myth. I see pressure around for people looking down upon Muslims as probably being backwarded or too strict/religious, but there is hardly any real pressure or stress because of this hadith and the way Western media has blown is out of perspective.
Now whether I am another Madhanee - impossible, I'm not ahmedi, and I love Islam - otherwise, why spend so much time blasting those people who are manipulating it?
And whether I'm stirring up a fire - oh, well, I think you do that all the time, so why criticize?
Being a female, I can understand where you're coming from. I had a hard time accepting many things and I probably still do (not this one though). There are many things that Allah (SWT) has made crystal clear for the ummah that are easy to grasp and understand for the majority, while there are other issues and topics that are not so clear and vague that often create a feeling of unrest and discomfort. It is best for us to accept all that which is in Quran and in Saheeh hadith regardless of our level of comfort with it. Everything that Allah (SWT) does and has decreed for us is out of His (SWT) Perfect Wisdom and Knowledge. We should accept it with firm faith.
