Why is that tens of hundred pilgrrims die every year in stampede or fire?
Are they so unruly while performing Hajj that no one cares about running over dead bodies and living people?
All the efforts by Saudi Government have failed so far. It is a must that Hajis will be killed every year.
Millions of people gathered in Kumbh mela recently, how many were stampede?
Being on Kumbla Mela is very different than being on Hajj. Hajj is confined to particular places, and that mela it can spread over the land mass minimizing the risk of such events.
How many Hajjis were there this year, anyone?
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
I agree with Watcher. It is not a good analogy. I just hope no one takes any religious stance on this tragedy.
Hajj rituals are performed together by the 2 million plus people. They dont have other windows of opportunity. It has to be performed on the same day, at the same time. And with 2 and a half million people walking in unison, if a person slips and falls down in the middle, its impossible for backenders to know about it, and its impossible to stop the congregation.
If anything, I think its amazing that so many people get through with so few accidents.
One thing that few non muslims know. Makkah attracts upwards of 200,000 to 300,000 pilgrims everyday of the year. And the day of Hajj attracts the largest congregation.
The scene is even more beautiful in Ramzan, when people converge in Makkah and Medinah for a whole month.
So its really amazing how few casualties we hear of....not that few casualties are ok, but its a testament to the organized nature of the pilgrimages.
As far as I know most of the ppl on hajj are relatively older ppl.
What saudi govt should do is basically segregate ppl in to two groups age above 60 and below 60.
Don’t say it is not possible,every thing is possible provided resources are used in right way and right direction.So there will be same rythm in two groups and less of unfortune.
would the Muslims who claimed on this site that the earthquake in India was Allah's punishment to the kafirs please stand up!
[This message has been edited by schopenhauer (edited March 05, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
**would the Muslims who claimed on this site that the earthquake in India was Allah's punishment to the kafirs please stand up!
[This message has been edited by schopenhauer (edited March 05, 2001).]**
[/quote]
There were many Muslims who died in that earthquake. How do you relate that(earthquake) to this incident?
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
mm10 it is possible but not practical. PPl over 60 need help with every thing and you cannot separate them. And how about the time limits. People cannot wait for the ppl over 60 to do certain things and then let the other group through.
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
There were many Muslims who died in that earthquake. How do you relate that(earthquake) to this incident?
**
[/quote]
You don't. Just as comments about Allah killing the kufr was inane before, the comment by schopenhauer was inappropriate and similarly misguided.
Can you people read and understand English. I know that it is a second language for you, but please try harder before you start jumping up and down.
My message does not draw a parallel between the two incidents. It simply tells those, who had previously claimed that a natural calamity in India was god's punishment, that disasters do happen. God has nothing to do with them.
I agree that Kumbh mela and hajj should not be compared.
Still it seems so absurd to me that so many people die every year. Being so confined in a small place can not be an excuse and these deaths are not going to be stopped in future.
Because number of pilgrims every year is bound to increase every year due to higher number of muslim population every year.
I think Saudi Govt. has tried best but the problem is immense.
Just imagine what would happen in about 50-100 years from now when number of pilgrims might be 2-3 times or even more, confined in the same place. Any thoughts.
[quote]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
**Can you people read and understand English. I know that it is a second language for you, but please try harder before you start jumping up and down.
My message does not draw a parallel between the two incidents. It simply tells those, who had previously claimed that a natural calamity in India was god's punishment, that disasters do happen. God has nothing to do with them.**
[/quote]
Who makes natural disasters?
We will never know why these people got killed or why it happened - and those who died in the earthquake, we will never know about them either.
People bring harm upon themselves, they might not know about it but they do, with their actions, and their choices in life, etc., etc.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
Can you people read and understand English. I know that it is a second language for you, but please try harder before you start jumping up and down.
I think it was the delivery and not the content of your post that got to some people.
Now since this is your first language, maybe you should start concentrating on the delivery of it.
May I suggest English Composition 101.
[quote]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
My message does not draw a parallel between the two incidents. It simply tells those, who had previously claimed that a natural calamity in India was god's punishment, that disasters do happen. God has nothing to do with them.
[/quote]
========================================
schopenhauer: They were fanatic morons, don't take them seriously. They are found in every religion.Not just Islam.
[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited March 05, 2001).]
What watcher is saying is that, it is the peoples fault that they live on a fault line. They should pray to god that the tectonic movements don't affect them if they pray hard enough. I wonder if that was in the vedas or the quran. God should have told us. That is so like him/her.
[quote]
Originally posted by analyze it:
Just imagine what would happen in about 50-100 years from now when number of pilgrims might be 2-3 times or even more, confined in the same place. Any thoughts.
[/quote]
The number of pilgrims will not increase. It will be managed in other ways, like setting quotas for individual countries, and restricting repeat pilgrims. Uptil 30 years ago, one could for hajj every year if they wanted to. Now, for the saudi locals, the limit is set at once every 5 years. There are similar restrictions in other exclusively muslim countries. I foresee similar restrictions being imposed in all muslim countries in the near future.
Because of the confinement of Hajj to one day only, it is not possible to allow the number of pilgrims to increase indefinitely. The number will have to be limited, and certain logical restrictions will have to be put in place.
Why everyone has to perform hajj same day. I think the Saudia government should change it to three days or whole week or so...its the matter of life and death...so many people die becuz of the crazy crowd...its total jahalat if they do not change it soon enough....i don't think its so damn neccessary to do it just in one day where there is a chance of people loosing their life...not just one or two people...hundred....and there might be more in future...
Sadaf2000 i don't want to be rude, but are you a Muslim. Do you know how is Haj performed. I recommend reading some books on the way Haj is performed then you will have the answer to your question.
[quote]
Originally posted by TAZZ:
Sadaf2000 i don't want to be rude, but are you a Muslim. Do you know how is Haj performed. I recommend reading some books on the way Haj is performed then you will have the answer to your question.
[/quote]
MR TAZZ i am proud to be a good Muslim and i have a good knowledge of how Haj is perform..i guess u didn't get my point. I personally do not think it is so neccessary to perform Haj just in one day when people are dying there...it could be extended to at least three days or maybe if not this they should change something else to stop all these deaths. Its a must and Farz to perform Hajj in that particular day....but it is not recomended in Islam that you risk your life to death and to go through all this... Its extremely disturbing to see all this...these people went there with so much happiness and they died there just becuz of disorganization....why should even one person die.