What is that condition?
Ooh and thanks for explaining a few things 
amelie, thanks that was very informative
In ref to Faisal's term "used goods" most of the guys, nowadays, come used regardless of a previous marraige. Probably girls too but not as many.
It would be interesting to see the response of someone, who really is a "2nd wife". Do you know of any?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ShiNoO: *
What is that condition?
[/QUOTE]
Here are translations for the same ayat 4:3 by three different scholars
004.003
YUSUFALI: If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
PICKTHAL: And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
SHAKIR: And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
So, if someone is contemplating marrying multiple wives at the same time, the critical condition is that he should be able to do justice amongst all the wives. Now, how many people can do that or even claim to do that?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Munni, I thought that a man marrying a second wife is grounds for divorce only if it is written into the nikkah contract with the first wife that he shall never take a second wife?
[/QUOTE]
Not from what I have read/my references. From what I have read, a man is not supposed to even put in his contract that he cannot take a second wife, because Islam does not forbid it. It's like making something halal to be haram, which is not permitted.
A woman may divorce him if she feels she wouldnt be happy in such a situation, from my readings.
Your references may be different than mine. Just telling you what I have come across. smile
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
Not from what I have read/my references. From what I have read, a man is not supposed to even put in his contract that he cannot take a second wife, because Islam does not forbid it. It's like making something halal to be haram, which is not permitted.
[/QUOTE]
Well, he is not making it haraam that he can't marry again rather both parties are entering into a contractual agreement (as part of the marriage contract) that if the guy decides to take a second wife, then the first wife will get the right to divorce him. Marriage in Islam is a religious as well as a civil contract. So its basically a negotiated term in the contract, and there is nothing in Islam which forbids it, as far as I know. If the marriage contract is silent on this account, then the husband doesn't even need to take permission from the first wife, let alone having to divorce her. It will be nice, ofcourse, if he lets her know, preferrably before taking the plunge a second time.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Umer: *
It would be interesting to see the response of someone, who really is a "2nd wife". Do you know of any?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I was hoping for that too
Faisal, thank you! That's what I was looking for.
Ok, I still don't know whether the guy needs permission from the 1st wife in order to marry again ?!
[quote]
If the marriage contract is silent on this account, then the husband doesn't even need to take permission from the first wife, let alone having to divorce her. It will be nice, ofcourse, if he lets her know, preferrably before taking the plunge a second time
[/quote]
Whoa, so this is all written in the nikkah naama?
SO if I understand correctly, the wife can divorce her husband if she doesn't agree with his 2nd marriage?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Well, he is not making it haraam that he can't marry again rather both parties are entering into a contractual agreement (as part of the marriage contract) that if the guy decides to take a second wife, then the first wife will get the right to divorce him. Marriage in Islam is a religious as well as a civil contract. So its basically a negotiated term in the contract, and there is nothing in Islam which forbids it, as far as I know. If the marriage contract is silent on this account, then the husband doesn't even need to take permission from the first wife, let alone having to divorce her. It will be nice, ofcourse, if he lets her know, preferrably before taking the plunge a second time.
[/QUOTE]
Faisal, I was simply quoting my references. And they do state that it is incorrect to put that into a marriage contract. I will look them up perhaps and then post. smile
Shinoo, I will look that up for you as well and PM it, as its the majority opinion (from what I have read) that a husband does not need wife's opinion to marry again.
Hell freakin NO!
I dont know how and why people want a second person in life??
unless there is big big reason for that.
How can they be fair??
so if they cant be fair its good to leave one and then choose any other person.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ShiNoO: *
SO if I understand correctly, the wife can divorce her husband if she doesn't agree with his 2nd marriage?
[/QUOTE]
A wife can not divorce her husband, unless the husband gave her this right in the nikah nama (marriage contract).
A wife, can however, ask for 'khula' from her husband, which is a bit different because in this case, the wife has to return the marriage gift (mehr) to her husband and the husband is no longer required to pay her naan-nafqa (alimony). In case the husband divorces the wife, the wife keeps the mehr and is entitled to appropriate and reasonable alimony.
^
This is sooo complicated :-/
So what happens to the dowry that the wife brings with her when they divorce?
Who makes the nikkah naama anywayz? The guy's side and the girls side seperately or is it just one nikkah naama?
(yeah I really don't have a clue)
a big fat NO. or if i am 40 or above, i might think about it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ShiNoO: *
So what happens to the dowry that the wife brings with her when they divorce?
Who makes the nikkah naama anywayz? The guy's side and the girls side seperately or is it just one nikkah naama?
[/QUOTE]
Answer to your first question is 'depends'. A dowry is supposed to be girl's stuff, clothes, jewellery etc and husband has nothing to do with it nor use for it, so the girl should be able to take it back with her. Then again, there are lamers in Pakistan who will like to kick out the girl with just the clothes on her back and try to keep everything. Its quite inappropriate and against Islamic teachings.
On to your second question, there is only ONE nikahnama (there can be photocopies of the same). This is to be signed by both the bride and the groom and their designated lawyers (guardians etc). The terms of the nikahnama should be mutually agreed prior to signing. This includes the wedding gift from the husband (mehr) and agreement on the rights of the wife and the husband in the marriage (including the right of the wife to divorce the husband). There are a bunch of yes/no questions there. It is to be signed and approved by the designated nikah-khwan of the location who records each nikah in his locality in a register.
What I am telling you, however, is the nikahnama according to the Family laws in Pakistan. In Western countries, presumably there will be a civil contract (approved by the government) and a separate religious document (by the religious scholar).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Umer: *
It would be interesting to see the response of someone, who really is a "2nd wife". Do you know of any?
[/QUOTE]
One of my Phuppis is a second wife of someone. From what i understand, the first wife lives in a village outside of Islamabad (where my Phuppa comes from), they visit the gaon regularly. i have never met the first wife, so i am not certain how she feels about the whole issue.
He wasn't able to have children with the first wife, so he married again. From the little time i spent with my Phuppi [they have three kids - all sons], she seemed extremely happy. She wasn't faking it, i have known her all my life, she used to take care of me for months. We had long talks when no one was at home (not her hubby and not her kids). She seemed to me to be extremely happy and content. Of course, whether or not the first wife is - i am not certain. Allah knows.
yeh kon log hain jo doosri shadi kur rhay hain…hum say to pehli nhin ho paa rhi 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
One of my Phuppis is a second wife of someone. From what i understand, the first wife lives in a village outside of Islamabad (where my Phuppa comes from), they visit the gaon regularly. i have never met the first wife, so i am not certain how she feels about the whole issue.
He wasn't able to have children with the first wife, so he married again. From the little time i spent with my Phuppi [they have three kids - all sons], she seemed extremely happy. She wasn't faking it, i have known her all my life, she used to take care of me for months. We had long talks when no one was at home (not her hubby and not her kids). She seemed to me to be extremely happy and content. Of course, whether or not the first wife is - i am not certain. Allah knows.
[/QUOTE]
This is predictable Nadia as the destitute in this case is the first wife who could not bear a child for her husband. Those second wives who are at the competition with the first ones may be going through torture I suppose ot is that true that women are naturally pliant to adjust to such things?!
....
Why buy the cow when you can just get the milk that you want! Plus there's always the right hand.
**
hmmmm. i am not certain. Interesting question.
Some of the things that my female relatives have gone through - the ups and downs, some have wonderful husbands, one had an alcoholic, so many different experiences accumulated in the past fifty years of so many of my extended family female family members - without God, i don’t think they could have survived through any of it. i don’t know if any guy could have gone through half of what some of them have gone through… honestly speaking, not trying to be sexist here or anything. 
Khair, going back to this thread’s initial topic… i wish i knew how the first wife felt about that particular arrangement, whether or not she was consulted about it, etc.