After the poor performance of F&B in the first test thread, I have decided to start this one for the second test.
Anyways, here is my “wish list” for the second test
(which is never going to happen) :
Jaffer OUT —> Yuvraj IN (Tendu & Karthik to open)
In an ideal world, I would have liked the following :
Jaffer OUT → Akash Chopra IN (Chopra is currently playing league matches in England)
Tendu OUT → Yuvraj IN (India will send a man to moon before this happens)
Sreesanth OUT → Pathan flown IN (to strengthen the tail)
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
India's biggest problem is its middle order...an interesting analysis at cricinfo:
*This is a batting order that has long lived on reputation; three years, to be precise. Not since the tour of Pakistan in early 2004 has India's middle order earned the right to be termed as mighty. *
*Let's dispense with the numbers first. In Test matches since that series Sachin Tendulkar averages 45.67, Sourav Ganguly 36.24 and VVS Laxman 33.70. But even these numbers hide the reality for none them has failed to cash in on weak opponents. Three of Tendulkar's last four hundreds - including a career-best 248 - have come against Bangladesh, Ganguly has scored hundreds against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, his only centuries since a stirring 144 against Australia at Brisbane in 2002, and Laxman has got a hundred against Zimbabwe. Remove these runs and the story is dire. Tendulkar's average dips to 31.19, Ganguly's to 29.40 and Laxman's to 32.19. *
Increasingly it looks likely that this is what India's once-glittering middle order is capable of providing in demanding conditions: battling 30s and the odd half-century. That's what Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly provided at Lord's and that's what they did against Australia, Pakistan and South Africa in 2004-05, and against South Africa earlier this year. More than 20 Tests in the space of three years is a long enough sample period to present a pattern and, despite what the rest of this series might bring, it's about time to bury the myth about India's middle order.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
PD....You said it man.
I wrote on similar lines some time ago. I don't know why phrases such as "formidable middle order", "star-studded middle-order" etc are still used in the context of Indian batting. I have not delved into statistics - but I have a feeling that India's much maligned bowlers have performed better than the batsmen in the last few years.
Truth be told - Even Dravid , the mainstay of India's batting, is no longer "the Wall" he once used to be (don't know if its the pressure of Captaincy). And Tendu, Gangu and Laxman hardly instil the same confidence as before.
And India's opening pair , of course, continues to be a game of musical chairs.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
After the poor performance of F&B in the first test thread, I have decided to start this one for the second test.
Anyways, here is my "wish list" for the second test
(which is never going to happen) :
Jaffer OUT ---> Yuvraj IN (Tendu & Karthik to open)
In an ideal world, I would have liked the following :
Jaffer OUT --> Akash Chopra IN (Chopra is currently playing league matches in England)
Tendu OUT --> Yuvraj IN (India will send a man to moon before this happens)
Sreesanth OUT --> Pathan flown IN (to strengthen the tail)
i agree yuvi needs to be in the team, i would get either ganguly or laxman out for him
but on the other hand, even tho jaffer has performed well, the tendu and karthik opening pair sounds pretty good
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
After the poor performance of F&B in the first test thread, I have decided to start this one for the second test.
In F&B case India didnot lose. So India better not lose this one. This time there will not be any rain to save Indian asses. :D
If India loses I will come over your place and kick some ass. Yes , I know your address and it is 5 mint drive from my place.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Some1, finally the cricket fraternity has started listening to you about poor performance of the formidable Indian middle order batting. Another article on the same topic
(Although I wonder what are the replacements for these big names. OK fine, get rid of tendulkar, laxman and gangu but who will replace these master players)
Why do the Indian galacticos keep getting out to English greenhorns? Goliaths in awe of the Davids Tim de Lisle July 24, 2007
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Cricket holds fewer mysteries than it used to, for several reasons. The commentators and their gizmos do a fine job of explaining it. One team can study another on their laptops. And they all meet more often than they once did. But some mysteries remain. Why does Geoffrey Boycott keep telling you that what he is telling you is something he told you earlier? Why does no country pick a different team for the different game of Twenty20? And why do the Indian galacticos keep getting out to English greenhorns?
At Lord’s, three of the big four fell in the first innings to Jimmy Anderson and one to Ryan Sidebottom. In the second, Rahul Dravid fell cheaply to Chris Tremlett (albeit unluckily, as the commentators and their gizmos soon showed), Sachin Tendulkar managed only one great shot, and although Sourav Ganguly and VVS Laxman played their part in The Great Escape, neither was exactly MS Dhoni. England were missing their four first-choice seamers, yet India were bowled out for 201 in the first innings by the makeshift firm of Sidebottom, Anderson, and Tremlett, who sound more likely to draw up a man’s will than to threaten his wicket.
Admittedly, the ball swung, and the bowlers controlled it well, in a way that Andrew Flintoff could have done with when he was trying to stop the flood of Aussie runs last winter. And you can’t read too much into one match: the big names may well lord it in the next Test. But there is a pattern here. England have now done the same thing in four series running against India.
They have needed to, because every time they have been missing key bowlers. In 2001-02, Darren Gough and Andy Caddick both declined to tour for different reasons; they never did remotely resemble one another. Poor old Nasser Hussain was left with a new-ball attack of Matthew Hoggard (playing his third Test) and the young Flintoff (looking for his eighth wicket), backed up by Craig White (as much a batsman as a bowler in India) and, for one match, Jimmy Ormond (talented, but never given time to show it). Somehow Hussain made something out of this motley crew, and although England lost the first Test, they held their own in the other two.
In 2002, Hussain was again missing Gough for the whole series, and Caddick for the first two Tests. The new ball was again taken by Hoggard and Flintoff, supported by White and a brand-new fourth seamer: Simon Jones, who showed some raw promise (partly with the bat). This ragbag, plus Ashley Giles, somehow bowled India out for 221 on a flat Lord’s pitch. England, awash with hundreds, set India 568 to win and bowled them out for 397. Ajit Agarkar made a hundred; the big four - or five, if you count Virender Sehwag - didn’t.
For the rest of that series, the superstars reassserted themselves. Dravid made an immense hundred at Headingley](http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2002/IND_IN_ENG/SCORECARDS/IND_ENG_T3_22-26AUG2002.html), Tendulkar and Ganguly emulated him, Sehwag merrily blasted the shine off the new ball, only Laxman struggled, and India fought back to 1-1.
Back in India, this trend might have been expected to continue, although this time England’s injuries were mainly to batsmen - their captain and vice-captain, Michael Vaughan and Marcus Trescothick.
Flintoff took over, and he began with a decent hand of seamers - Hoggard, Harmison and himself, but no Jones. With Hoggard putting his hand up, as the players say, the galacticos mostly flopped: India were kept in the first Test only by runs from Wasim Jaffer, Mohammad Kaif and Anil Kumble, with Dravid helping secure the draw in the second innings. A match of no hundreds at Mohali was won by two bowlers, Kumble and Munaf Patel - who showed that Englishmen too could be susceptible to a debutant.
The series was India’s for the taking at Mumbai, even when England made 400. Flintoff was once again forced to take the new ball with Hoggard because Harmison was now injured. Anderson was drafted in as third seamer, and did so well (4 for 40) that he opened the bowling in the second innings, when an unexpected combination of Flintoff, Anderson, Shaun Udal, and the late Johnny Cash shot India out for 100.
Hoggard finished the series with 13 wickets at 17. Tendulkar averaged 20, Sehwag 19, and Laxman, who played one Test, didn’t get off the mark. Ganguly was out of favour and only Dravid, who averaged 61, was himself.
It’s not just England who get away with pitting understudies against these titans. The bowlers who have done best against India this decade include half-forgotten names like Daryl Tuffey (21 wickets at 16) and Cameron Cuffy (28 at 28). Nor is it just seamers. Besides Udal, Michael Vaughan has flourished against India, taking 4 for 120, while managing 2 for 417 against everyone else. In 2001-02, Richard Dawson managed a Test four-for at Mohali. And once Michael Clarke of Australia took six-for with his occasional slow left-arm.
The Indian stars are sometimes accused of being grand, but in Tests against England it is only Ashley Giles (11 wickets at 50) who has incurred their disdain. With the exception of Dravid, they seem unable to dominate. It’s as if they know they are Goliaths, so they freeze when any little David comes into view. Anderson, a pie-thrower against Australia, was transformed into a world-beater at Lord’s.
In their last 11 Tests against India, England have fielded 13 front-line seamers, with only Hoggard and Flintoff making more than five appearances. In the first innings at Lord’s, India’s big names were not just unsuccessful but tentative. With the ball moving around corners, the game was there to be won by one attacking partnership. They couldn’t produce it; Kevin Pietersen and Matt Prior did.
Individually, they have good-looking records against England since 2001. Dravid averages 65, Tendulkar 52, Ganguly 48, Sehwag and Laxman 32, so together they average 47. But given their class, and the bowlers’ lack of it, that figure should be 57. Shane Warne never bothered these guys, but show them a journeyman county seamer and the galaxy falls to earth.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Looks like we are going to have another rain effected game and drainage system here is not as good as Lords. I see another Draw game on the card then we go to OVAL and play with 2 spinners. ;)
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Looks like we are going to have another rain effected game and drainage system here is not as good as Lords. I see another Draw game on the card then we go to OVAL and play with 2 spinners. ;)
Rain phir tumhein bachha ley gee. Yes Yes I know had it not rained in 1733 during the match between Paksitan and UAE, Pakistan would have lost and not won the universe cricket cup that year. :)
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Why are they creating such a big drama about Gangu?
Gangu must play and stuff like that. I mean it's not like, he is a player who is scoring heavily or he is someone on whom the entire Indian batting is dependent, and his replacement would not be good enough.
We know who is going to make the cut in his absence. And I personally think, Yuvraj should not be considered a replacement even if he is in the side in place of a missing Rahul Dravid. So for God's sake, gangu fans should shut up and don't forget he is just a Gangu not Lara or Ponting.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
LOL at ^^ (intented at ehsan bhai's post and not @ Khansahb's)
Looks like India is going to get Lucky again...word out there is that They would drop James Anderson if Hoggard was fit..i was kinda surprise over keeping the new bowler (tremlett or whatever his name is) and letting James go....Obviosuly i didnt watch the game live and YT highlits dont tell how good a fast bowler he was in 1st game, Can someone enlighten me about his bowling from 1st test?
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Why are they creating such a big drama about Gangu?
Gangu must play and stuff like that. I mean it's not like, he is a player who is scoring heavily or he is someone on whom the entire Indian batting is dependent, and his replacement would not be good enough.
We know who is going to make the cut in his absence. And I personally think, Yuvraj should not be considered a replacement even if he is in the side in place of a missing Rahul Dravid. So for God's sake, gangu fans should shut up and don't forget he is just a Gangu not Lara or Ponting.
or not even Inzi.
Spot on too much of talk is going on about him, yeah since he is LH so having him in middle order when Monty bowls is going to be good but Youvi is better option. Maybe Indians like the felxability that he provides to bowling with his medium fast bowling....and do not think he is disposable!
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Yes Yes I know had it not rained in 1733 during the match between Paksitan and UAE, Pakistan would have lost and not won the universe cricket cup that year. :)
No , you are not correct...that was not a "make-or-break" match for Pak. Please check your facts............... or fkhan2 will check them for you.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
Why are they creating such a big drama about Gangu?
Gangu must play and stuff like that. I mean it's not like, he is a player who is scoring heavily or he is someone on whom the entire Indian batting is dependent, and his replacement would not be good enough.
Ideally, I don't know why anbody should care about Gangu's possible absence when we have a better batsman in Yuvraj to replace him.
Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007
No , you are not correct...that was not a "make-or-break" match for Pak. Please check your facts............... or fkhan2 will check them for you.
Sorry but both of you are wrong. It was India vs UAE match and Ehsan bhai it was not the universe cricket cup. India never managed to qualify for that Cup. Kenya use to beat them every time in the qualifying rounds.
