Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
one is afghanistan ...please name the other one
err...Pakistan. We fed ourselves and Afghanistan.
Oleander, nope that is not what they want. They want Pakistani ID cards, want to live in Pakistan yet still claim they are better. Half of the staff at the PRT and working in the embassies studied in Pakistan, have Pakistani ID cards and have their families settled in Islamabad, Lahore and Peshawar. And they are the first to say that Pakistan has done nothing for us.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
Alright dude you save your heritage. I am saving mine by exposing the hypocrisy of your kind. Enough of my people blood is spilled because of gay monkeys of Afghanistan - go love them but I will take revenge of every fallen God willing.
From the last 65+ years we didnt receive a kind gesture from your loving neighbor - its not like India starting to have influence from last few years from the day one gay monkeys are sold out, Afghanistan was the only country who voted against the entry of Pakistan in to UN was that a coninsidence?
Afghans never accept the Durand Line, is it a coninsidence?
Whenever these leeches got chance they back stab us, is that coninsidence?
Go figure !
I have no hate for Afghans (or Indians for that matter). I'd like to see your "revenge" against Afghans. Lets review Pakistan and Afghanistan relations:
Yes, Afghanistan voted against Pakistan. It was simply due to the fact that they believed that the Pakhtun majority areas of Pakistan (an artificial colonial creation from their point of view) should have gone back to Afghanistan. I don't agree with that statement but but its their point of view.
In the 1948, 1965, 1971 wars with India, if Afghanistan wanted to open up a second front they could have. Pakistan would be DONE at that point.
Yes, Pakistan suffered immensely due to the Soviet invasion, yet it took the opportunity to get billions in aid from USA, KSA. Essentially created the Taliban, meddled in their politics, and came up with the concept of strategic depth. Note, I am not blaming Pakistan for any of this, I actually support many of the decisions, but you can not discount the fact that Pakistan has been intimately involved in the political/military maneuverings in Afghanistan.
Durand Line: I have news for you, the Durand Line is a *soft *border at best. On a personal level, Both sides of the border do not recognize the Durand Line. As an international border, its status is clear.
As for calling Afghans "gay monkeys" or anything else, I'd like you to do that in front of an Afghan, I am sure that you will get a fitting response.
Instead of tearing down each others countries, we should be working towards the post US future of Afghanistan, engaging Iran on making sure that the post Karzai era does not descend into chaos.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
We should not generalize whole countries, secondly if we see our history the peace in both Pakistan and Afghanistan depends on good relations between the two countries.
Agreed 100%. In fact, I would throw Iran into mix as well. We need to bring the 3 countries together and find ways of working together. With a stable Afghanistan, we can become their main trading partner, work on natural gas/oil pipelines, same applies to Iran. We need to secure our western borders.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
[QUOTE]
I have no hate for Afghans (or Indians for that matter). I'd like to see your "revenge" against Afghans. Lets review Pakistan and Afghanistan relations:
Yes, Afghanistan voted against Pakistan. It was simply due to the fact that they believed that the Pakhtun majority areas of Pakistan (an artificial colonial creation from their point of view) should have gone back to Afghanistan. I don't agree with that statement but but its their point of view.
In the 1948, 1965, 1971 wars with India, if Afghanistan wanted to open up a second front they could have. Pakistan would be DONE at that point.
Yes, Pakistan suffered immensely due to the Soviet invasion, yet it took the opportunity to get billions in aid from USA, KSA. Essentially created the Taliban, meddled in their politics, and came up with the concept of strategic depth. Note, I am not blaming Pakistan for any of this, I actually support many of the decisions, but you can not discount the fact that Pakistan has been intimately involved in the political/military maneuverings in Afghanistan.
Durand Line: I have news for you, the Durand Line is a *soft border at best. On a personal level, Both sides of the border do not recognize the Durand Line. As an international border, its status is clear.
As for calling Afghans "gay monkeys" or anything else, I'd like you to do that in front of an Afghan, I am sure that you will get a fitting response.
Instead of tearing down each others countries, we should be working towards the post US future of Afghanistan, engaging Iran on making sure that the post Karzai era does not descend into chaos.*
[/QUOTE]
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
The hatred that most Afghans have for Pakistan is due to their perception of Pakistani interference in their internal matters, the same thing now we can ourselves witness vis a vis our relations with US (as many people believe that they are interfering in our matters and creating problems for us). There's no way around it, we will have to improve our relationship with Afghanistan and then in the region.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
So what in the world did the war on terror achieve?
Terrorists have spread out everywhere, there's been a resurgence in terrorism, there is no peace and stability in the war-stricken regions, violence seems to be ever-growing, neither Pakistani authorities nor the most powerful millitary on the planet have been able to put an end to it so how the hell do they justify the collateral damage if they're going to be leaving the regions in the exact same state as they were in a decade ago??
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
^ In short War on terror has fallen straight on its face, taleban are still there in Afghanistan in a vast area, their allies have spread in over 50 % of islamic countries.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
i think afghans need to respect that EVERYTHING they use, comes through pakistan......... seal the border for some days......let them get their stuff from other routes..........
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
Everyone seems so hell-bend on sealing the border and kicking all the Afghans out like its so black and white. Its so much more complex than that. The Pak-Afghan border has always been porous, with the war going on in Afghanistan people are going to flee to neighbouring countries for safety. No one wants to be uprooted from their homes, war does that to people. For argument’s sake, say India decides to attack Pakistan - where do you think all the people are going to go? Afghanistan, Iran… And how would Pakistani’s feel if Afghanis starting blaming everything that went wrong in their countries to all Pakistanis…
Honestly, these nationalistic remarks are pathetic - nationalism is fine but not when its bordering on racism.
Do you know how many Pakistani/Afghan/Indian people try to come to Australia - they risk they lives to get on old boats from Indonesia so they can have a better life. And all this rubbish about kicking Afghans out - white people here use that same card. They start with the Islamophobia - they view muslims coming into Australia as a threat to who their noble identity.
Yes, Ive heard things like they bring drugs, crime all that rubbish - as if Pakistan was free of all that stuff before evil Afghans introduced it to Pakistanis
You are going to get good and bad everywhere - little to people realise that even if Afghans do come to Pakistan they may eventually contribute to Pakistani society in a meaningful way. If there are those that are criminals than the law should deal with that (which is not very honour-bound unfortunately).
Some of the negative comments are just ignorance - Afghans and Pakistani’s have historically been linked - they are Afghans that migrated to modern day Pakistan and are proud Pakistanis now.
Even if Afghans complain of their treatment in Pakistan - we may need to admit that the system fails its own people so it not going to do justice to refugees. I am sure some have had good treatment, at least the best that Kind Pakistani families could muster up, and some people have had bad experiences.
All this hatred/bitterness is clouded with political rubbish that people lose sight of the human aspect. Its frustrating.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
And you know what Australia does? Puts them on Christmas Island. Keeps them in prisons and then throws them out of the country.
You are essentially saying we should allow illegal migration, for people to take jobs from your average Pakistani and then deal with them insulting us and bad mouthing us? Nobody with any amount of self-respect would do that.
The world economy sucks. Charity begins at home. When your average Pakistani has an education, the possibility for a job and the ability to lead a normal and stable life. Then and only then should worry about those across the border. Every country does that so why shouldn't we?
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
^^ Mate, just because the rest of the world does something does not mean we should too...
Pakistanis themselves are complaining and bad-mouthing the economic/political halat in Pakistan, so naturally foreigners living there will too...
I hope that you never have to be in a situation where you are displaced from your home and have to go into a country that does not welcome you...
Neways, to the people reading this, you should know that these negative sentiments are not held by every Pakistani...
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
It'd be cruel to send back the Afghanis who are already here. Yeah our understand our infrastructure is in shambles, however the Afghans are already here. If we didn't want them here we should have sealed the borders back in the 80s. We should come to terms with the reality that they're here to stay, Afghanistan is an alien land for them now.
However I do support some sort of border control. All sorts of banned outfits can hop the border and wreak havoc across international borders. Besides the US might be leaving Iraq, however my guess is that they'll still have some sort of presence in Afghanistan. They should take care of the Afghanis on that side of their border, because their the ones who promised them freedom and liberty.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
It'd be cruel to send back the Afghanis who are already here. Yeah our understand our infrastructure is in shambles, however the Afghans are already here. If we didn't want them here we should have sealed the borders back in the 80s. We should come to terms with the reality that they're here to stay, Afghanistan is an alien land for them now.
However I do support some sort of border control. All sorts of banned outfits can hop the border and wreak havoc across international borders. Besides the US might be leaving Iraq, however my guess is that they'll still have some sort of presence in Afghanistan. They should take care of the Afghanis on that side of their border, because their the ones who promised them freedom and liberty.
So in other words Pakistan should take in roughly 30 million people when we can't provide for our own? Not even the US or EU do that but for some reason we should? The entire world has immigration laws but no Pakistan shouldn't follow international standards and norms. Why? Because its just not nice.
Well boo freaking hoo. Immigration laws are meant to create a check and balance on people coming into the country. If you two are so adamant to let Afghans live in Pakistan why don't you sponsor a family?
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
that all they (Afghans) wants.......leave them alone, they will sort it out
Not quite. They want access to Pakistani resources and opportunities. They want to be able to go back and forth whenever they want. They want to export their drugs through pakistan. And at the same time bad mouth Pakistan at every opportunity. Besides that, they want to be left alone.
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
So in other words Pakistan should take in roughly 30 million people when we can't provide for our own? Not even the US or EU do that but for some reason we should? The entire world has immigration laws but no Pakistan shouldn't follow international standards and norms. Why? Because its just not nice.
Well boo freaking hoo. Immigration laws are meant to create a check and balance on people coming into the country. If you two are so adamant to let Afghans live in Pakistan why don't you sponsor a family?
I didn't let them in, did I? It's the country's fault they got in. We were so eager to help our Afghan brothers. We should bear the consequences of our decisions. If you didn't want them living with us, you shouldn't have let them in.
Don't know about UK, however US has major illegal immigration problem, especially with the Latinos. The lower income class is suffering because of them overburdening the social institution(still under debate though). But the US government is to blame for that. They should implement stricter border control, but they're not doing that. And yeah they'd need to bring back the navy to their shores to prevent illegals coming in via sea.
All I'm saying is that we can't just kick them out, not to mention they are part of our politics, at least here in Karachi. Any attempt to get them out of this city would result in insane rioting.
Sending all of them back to Afghanistan, how practical is it? Do we have the resources to undertake such a task? (This is honest question, I really have no clue as to hard or easy it's going to be)
Re: 2014 - What should we do regarding Afghanistan
The people who are living in Pakistan for over 30 years, Afghanistan is a foreign land for them. If we kick them out they will again come in like the millions who have been sent back during the past 10 years. The government will have to think about the issue in a cool manner, they should all be legal for a start. As the illegal ones are more problematic as the government doesnt have any record of them.
