2005, A Turning Point for Israel & Palestinians?

With 2004 wrapping up dramatic changes have taken place following the death of Arafat, a quick look at the facts.

  • A free Palestinian election will take place January 6th 2005.

  • Sharon is currently forming a government coalition with the Labor party.

  • Israel is scheduled to begin withdrawing from the Gaza Strip beginning May 2005.

  • Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has said that Sharon can make peace with the Palestinians.

  • Hamas is openly talking about stopping operations against Israel.

Where does this lead us? A fork in road will come in 2005 and what direction each side chooses will be monumental.

The safe bet is that an IDF target assassination , or a suicide bomber, or general mistrust will keep things continuing the way they have been for the foreseeable future, but that bet isn’t paying like it did a year ago.

Re: 2005, A Turning Point for Israel & Palestinians?

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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
.....Where does this lead us? A fork in road will come in 2005 and what direction each side chooses will be monumental.

.....
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Arafat, Saddam, and their counterparts orthodox Israelis were the biggest obstacles. One has met the maker, the other has met the "breaker". Orthodox in Israel will be cowed down soon. There will be peace between Israel and Palestine.

Having said that, Palestinians will utilize their high literacy rate to develop as fast as South Korea.

This will serve as a lesson to Pakistanis and they will finally get rid of Mullahs grip. Soon Pakistan will join the developed world. Ameen!

Hamas has already urged its supporters to boycott the election Link ,its a wait and see if its a 'free" election. And as for “Hamas is openly talking about stopping operations against Israel.” How did you concluded this?

Here’s a link to latest news from Hamas.
** Hamas May Accept Statehood in West Bank ** http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041203/D86O6GH01.html

Here’s an excerpt.
** In an apparent change in long-standing policy, a top Hamas leader said Friday the militant group would accept the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as well as a long-term truce with Israel.

Hamas’ statement came as Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak described Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon as the Palestinians’ best chance for peace.

Mubarak’s comments could mean warming relations between Israel and an important Mideast peace mediator at a crucial time. It was a marked departure from past comments from Mubarak and other Egyptian officials blaming Sharon for the escalation of violence in the territories.

“I think if they (Palestinians) can’t achieve progress in the time of the current (Israeli) prime minister, it will be very difficult to make any progress in peace,” Mubarak told reporters. **

Arafat’s only been in the ground for a few short weeks and propsects for peace seem light years ahead of where they were. I expect Sharon, Hamas leaders, and Mubarek to sit around a campfire singing Kumbaya very shortly.

"a top Hamas leader"

Are there any "Top" Hamas leaders left? Speaking from an undisclosed location?

Hamas has either been taught a lesson, or needs time to regroup.

Small steps but steps none-the-less.


Israel to open nine crossings in West Bank fence.

Israel is to open nine crossings along the West Bank separation fence at the end of February 2005, members of a special Knesset committee on the defense budget were told Sunday during a tour of the fence route.

Defense establishment officials told the MKs that a new terminal to be opened at the roadblock at the end of February will be able to allow 2100 people to pass through every hour.

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said during Sunday’s cabinet meeting that 4,000 Palestinian construction workers from the West Bank and 800 Palestinian agricultural workers from Gaza will be granted entry permits into Israel.

Since the death of former Palestinian Authority chairman Yasser Arafat, the number of entry permits granted to Palestinians has reached 10,000.

Israel also approved recently the entrance of 2,000 merchants from the West Bank into Israel (a total of 4,000 merchants have received entry permits since the death of Arafat), and 100 merchants from Gaza. This is in addition to 200 merchants that received permits previously.

According to Mofaz, Israel is also taking steps to facilitate the operations of international aid organizations. He emphasized that the steps are designed to make it easier for the Palestinian leadership to create a new reality after Arafat’s death.

I think Hamas is playing with words just as Israel has done many times.

Just as once bush said sharon is a man of peace. Sheesh :rolleyes: Try telling this to the palestinians.

Thump

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Poll in PA: Majority of Palestinians oppose terror attacks

A poll conducted by the Jerusalem Media and Communication Center indicates a dramatic decline in Palestinian support for acts of violence targeting Israelis. For the first time since the outbreak of the intifada in September 2000, a majority of Palestinians, some 52%, oppose violence against Israel.
The figures also indicate public support among Palestinians for a Palestinian Authority initiative to reach an agreed upon cease-fire with all militant groups.

The Jerusalem Media and Communication Center, which conducted the poll this week and published the results on Wednesday, is a well-known institution and is considered reliable.

According to the poll, 52% of Palestinians oppose attacks on Israeli targets, and believe that they are counterproductive to the Palestinian national interest. This figure rose significantly since the previous poll in June, when those opposed to attacks on Israeli targets stood at only 27%.

The question was formulated in a way that regarded attacks in general against Israeli targets, including attacks against Israel Defense Forces soldiers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, in addition to attacks against civilians within the Green Line.

The number of Palestinians who believe that renewing attacks is an appropriate response dropped from 65% in June to 41% in December. The poll also found significant differences in responses to this question between Palestinians residing in the West Bank and those in the Gaza Strip.

Some 59% of the Palestinians polled expressed optimism regarding the future, while 40% expressed pessimism. Some 47% are skeptical regarding the chances for a successful outcome to the peace process, and believe that it is currently in a "difficult state, and that its future is unclear." Only 26% of the respondents said that the peace process is alive and that there is a possibility of resuming negotiations; 25% said that "the peace process is dead, and there is no possibility of renewing negotiations."

Half of those polled believe that the positions of Palestinian Authority leaders would change as a result of Yasser Arafat's death, while half believe that they would not change. A clear majority among those polled (57%) prefer a two-state solution, while 24% supported the creation of a binational state. Only 12% favor the creation of an Islamic state on all areas between the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

Some 32% of those polled said that they would vote for PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas in the January 9 election for Palestinian Authority chairman; 26% said that they would cast their ballot for jailed Tanzim leader Marwan Barghouti. Other votes are likely to be split between the remaining candidates. In the Gaza Strip, however, there is only a one percent margin between those favoring Abbas and those favoring Barghouti.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Thump

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Poll in PA: Majority of Palestinians oppose terror attacks

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What kind of stupid pole is that? Off course majority of the people would oppose terror attacks. Do we need a pole for that? It’s like asking people if they oppose poverty and illiteracy.

A few months ago the majority of Pals favored it (terror attacks against Israelis).

The area is a little volatile.

^Please provide some source to prove it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Agent Smith: *
^Please provide some source to prove it.
[/QUOTE]

Do you read before posting?

** According to the poll, 52% of Palestinians oppose attacks on Israeli targets, and believe that they are counterproductive to the Palestinian national interest. This figure rose significantly since the previous poll in June, when those opposed to attacks on Israeli targets stood at only 27%. **

Abbas seems to be a man willing to put himself out there in order to better the Palestinians, a respectable attribute.


Abbas: Armed intifada was a mistake, ‘has got to stop’

The use of weapons in the four-year-long intifada was a mistake and should end, Palestinian Liberation Organization leader Mahmoud Abbas said in an interview the to the London-based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat published Tuesday.

It is important to “keep the uprising away from arms because the uprising is a legitimate right of the people to express their rejection of the occupation by popular and social means,” Abbas said.

“Using the weapons was harmful and has got to stop,” Abbas said, referring to shootings and bombings by Palestinian militants that have killed hundreds of Israelis since the outbreak of fighting in September 2000.

In response to Abbas’ statement, the White House said it welcomed moves aimed at fighting terror.

“We remain focused on working toward a strategy that will put in place the institutions necessary for a viable [Palestinians] state to emerge,” White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. “But fighting terrorism and putting in a unified security force are key to those efforts.”

The idea of giving up weapons was dismissed by a spokesman for Hamas, however.

“I believe the consensus of the Palestinian people contradicts these statements,” said Sami Abu Zuhri. “The strategies of the Palestinian people should be discussed through serious and comprehensive dialogue.”

Abbas is the front-runner to replace Yasser Arafat in January 9 elections for Palestinian Authority chairman.

A pragmatist who opposes violence, Abbas has the support of Israel and the international community.

While Arafat was still alive, Abbas told associates in closed-door meetings that he felt the uprising was a mistake, but never went public with his ideas, apparently because he did not want to challenge Arafat.

At the time, polls also indicated that Palestinian militants enjoyed broad public support. However, after Arafat’s death, Abbas has been more candid about his views.

Israel has said violence must end before peace talks can resume.

  • 2005, A Turning Point for Israel & Palestinians*<<

:hehe:

yarr dont underestimate what Mubarakk said..lets put it this way…the best chance Pak ever had to achieve peace with india was when Lala Vajpyee Jee was in power…get a connection?

December 16, 2004
Sharon Predicts ‘Breakthrough’ in Ties With Palestinians
By STEVEN ERLANGER, New York Times

ERZLIYA, Israel, Dec. 16 - Next year could bring a “historic breakthrough” in Israel’s relations with the Palestinians, a buoyant Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel said today, insisting that his plan to pull out of Gaza had united the country, even if it had divided his own party.

Mr. Sharon said that his government would implement his proposal to dismantle all the Israeli settlements in Gaza and four small ones in the West Bank on schedule, and that he wanted to coordinate it with a new, elected Palestinian leadership that turned its back on violence.

“In 2005 we have the opportunity for an historic breakthrough in relations between us and the Palestinians, a breakthrough for which we have waited many years,” Mr. Sharon told delegates to the annual Herzliya conference on policy and strategy.

Israel also has the opportunity to “establish a new partnership with the international community in the struggle against terror and regional and global instability,” he said.

But to take advantage of those opportunities, Israel “must take the initiative,” he said, adding: “This is the hour, this is the time. This is the national test.”

Leaving Gaza and fighting violence against Israeli civilians have united Israelis around the goals that matter, he said.

“It is uniting us in distinguishing between goals that deserve to be fought for, since they are truly in our souls - such as Jerusalem, the large settlement blocks, the security zones and maintaining Israel’s character as a Jewish state - rather than the goals where it is clear to all of us that they will not be realized, and that most of the public is not ready, justifiably, to sacrifice so much for.”

By the latter, Mr. Sharon meant the settlements in Gaza - and by implication, a significant but unstated percentage of the settlements in the West Bank.

He insisted that his understanding of Israel’s “most essential interests” was shared with the United States and the Bush administration. He defined those issues as a refusal to return to 1967 borders, “allowing Israel to permanently keep large settlement blocs which have high Israeli populations and the total refusal to allow Palestinian refugees to return to Israel.”

In addition, he insisted that Israel had won the argument that there should be no movement toward recognizing a Palestinian state until the Palestinians “take genuine action against terror until it is eliminated, advance real reforms and stop teaching hatred toward Israel.”

Mr. Sharon was speaking to a national audience on television, on a day when his efforts to expand his minority coalition stalled temporarily, with the religious Shas party refusing to join him and the Labor Party temporarily suspending negotiations in a bitter dispute about ministerial portfolios.

But Mr. Sharon’s mood was optimistic and self-confident, and he promised that concrete steps by a new Palestinian leadership would be met in kind by Israel. “Now there is a real chance that new Palestinian leaders will rise, those who will be elected, who will truly abandon the path of terror and instead will advance a strategy of reconciliation and negotiation,” he said.

Israel would try to help the Palestinians to be ready to take over Gaza next year, he said, as an important first step toward an eventual Palestinian state.

Mr. Sharon’s aide, Ranaan Gissin, said that Israel was now supportive, for example, of a British proposal for a conference in London, probably in February, to help the Palestinians with security, economic and political improvements in preparation for running Gaza. Israel would not attend, Mr. Gissin said, given the Palestinian agenda, but would encourage Western donor nations to do what they can to help the Palestinians make a success of Gaza and see an economic incentive to stop violence.

Mr. Gissin described Mr. Sharon’s policy as “a breakthrough through a narrow valley,” that could lead to increased cooperation and coordination with the Palestinians after elections that presumably would be won by the moderate Mahmoud Abbas.

Mr. Abbas is going to need money in any event, in order for the Palestinian Authority to keep paying the salaries of the various competing security services while it tries to rein them in.

Mr. Sharon, his aides say, is reluctant to get caught up in any larger international forum about peace until the Palestinians get their own house in order. While encouraged by the statements against violence from Mr. Abbas, Israeli officials also note that violence has not stopped and that Mr. Abbas will need time to reorganize Palestinian security forces, let alone confront radical Islamic groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

Most importantly, one official said, Mr. Sharon does not want to be “trapped” into a discussion of a Palestinian state, leaping to stage two of the road map peace plan before Palestinians meet their commitments to stopping violence and incitement to violence, a requirement laid out in the first stage of the peace plan drafted by the United States, Europe, Russia and the United Nations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/16/international/middleeast/16cnd-mideast.html?ei=5006&en=ae91200847d0c0f7&ex=1103864400&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

:hehe:

I agree at this point talking like such is a laughing manner, after the violence and whatnot.

But it seems that unlike any posters here, The Palestinians and Israelis are sick of the killing and while its easy for posters to say the Palestinians will never live side by side with an Israel they have no say in the matter and have no first hand knowledge of the matter and are left only to post silly little faces.

[QUOTE]
"Using the weapons was harmful and has got to stop," Abbas said, referring to shootings and bombings by Palestinian militants that have killed hundreds of Israelis since the outbreak of fighting in September 2000.

While Arafat was still alive, Abbas told associates in closed-door meetings that he felt the uprising was a mistake, but never went public with his ideas, apparently because he did not want to challenge Arafat.

At the time, polls also indicated that Palestinian militants enjoyed broad public support. However, after Arafat's death, Abbas has been more candid about his views.
[/QUOTE]

Abbas = a closet Martin Luther King?

Re: 2005, A Turning Point for Israel & Palestinians?

The ball is rolling.


Conditions are right for a historic breakthrough toward peace between Israel and the Palestinians -Sharon

JERUSALEM (AP) – Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Thursday that conditions are right for a breakthrough toward peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

Speaking at a convention of building contractors in Tel Aviv, Sharon said, “I believe that the conditions are now ripe to allow us and the Palestinians to reach a historic breakthrough in the relations between us.”

Sharon’s remarks followed a series of steps by the new Palestinian regime headed by Mahmoud Abbas, including efforts for a halt to militant attacks against Israelis and deployment of Palestinian police in Gaza to stop the attacks.

On Thursday, the Palestinian leadership issued a ban against civilians bearing weapons – another signal that Abbas would not allow militants a free rein.

“If the Palestinians act in a comprehensive fashion to fight terror, violence and incitement,” Sharon said, “we can move forward to the process of implementing the ‘road map,’ and then we can coordinate various activities with them regarding the disengagement plan.”

The “road map” is an internationally backed peace plan that leads through stages to creation of a Palestinian state. The “disengagement plan” is Sharon’s intention to withdraw from Gaza and part of the West Bank in the summer.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/27/sharon.ap/index.html