20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Lol ...now you are comparing the mind of umar(ra) with that guy named as khoemeini...who said that if wilayat-e-fiqah take it necessary..it can ban the namaz.....HAHAHAHa ....what i call this wilayat-e-fiqah...i will not say because then bohat sai logo kai mazhabi jazbat **majrooh **ho jai gai......bah

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Ans 19... so why not ali(ra) and hassan(ra) also refused the caliphate which according to your **theory **is different from immamat.......

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Ans...so prove that miqdad(ra) and salman(ra) were not happy at saqifa and also show us their speech from which you **deduced **thier un-happiness..thankyou...

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

And for your kind information...all sahabas offered prayer one by one of prophet(pbuh) and then buried him.....only 2 were present or only banu hashim was present was almost a joke ...nothing else....

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Ans. 17...another lol..when you have not prove for tis and brother quoted it from history book...you pend up the matter for life after death....sweet!!!!!

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

ans.16 ...have you also followed 6666 verses of quran and have never broken a sinle ayat of quran in whole of your life ???plz. answer...

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Ans ..15 ..your answers are ridiculous ...did ali(ra) posses the knowledge ONLY ...no one else possessed it ????? infact this shows the excellent relationship of umar with ali and great heart of muavia(ra) ...but you becomes blind over this...strange ...

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

ans 14..again quoted ayat on wrong place..as in shaeeh hadees there is one ajar for a man who does a wrong ijtihad....

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Ans 13...no one denied his caliphate..only murderers of usman(ra) wanted by muavia(ra) ...caliphate was rejected by **lovely iraqis **as khargites...who openly abused him..called him dirty names....

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

ans 12....
this answer was send to me by Brother ibne sadique ... and i am thankful to him.....
The Term Mawla has many meanings in Arabic. Mawla means:

Protector, Guardian, Master, Patron, Freed Slave, slave owner, brother in law, friend, etc.
Imam Nawawi specifies twenty different meanings for mawla in Arabic. I had the reference for it but have misplaced the files that contained it.
It no stretch of imagination, can the word maula mean Leader or Imam!

Just a few examples from the Quran where Allah (swt) has used the word maula. It can never mean Leader or Imam!!!!!

Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide. 2:257

Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve; 10:62

And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise. 9:71

Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor-due, and bow down (in prayer). 5:55

2:286 On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."

3:150 Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers.

66:2 Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths (in some cases): and Allah is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up. 66:4

If "Maula" means master, then the angels are Muhammad's (saw)’s masters. Also, the "good believers" are Muhammad's (saw)’s masters.

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Meaning of Moula

Holy Qur'an and the revelation of the verse: "O Apostle! deliver that which has been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people." (5.67)

Who agrees the verse for above is revealed for "Ghadeem Khum" regard to Imam Ali (as) as a master.
Jalalu'd-din Suyuti: Durru'l-Mansur; vol. II, p. 298; Hafiz Ibn Abi Hatim Razi: Tafsir-e-Ghadir; Hafiz Abu Ja'far Tabari: Kitabu'l-Wilaya; Hafiz Abu Abdullah Mahamili: Amali; Hafiz Abu Bakr Shirazi: Ma Nazala mina'l-Qur'an Fi Amiri'l-Mu'minin; Hafiz Abu Sa'id Sijistani: Kitabu'l-Wilaya; Hafiz Ibn Mardawiyya: Tafsir-e-Ayah; Hafiz Abu'l-Qasim Haskani: Shawahidu't-Tanzil; Abu'l-Fatha Nazari: Khasa'isu'l-Alawi; Mu'inu'd-din Meibudi: Sharh-e-Diwan; Qazi Shekani: Fathu'l-Ghadir, vol. III, p. 57

Even Qazi Fazl Bin Ruzbahan, despite all his ill will and fanaticism, writes: "Verily it is proved in our authentic Sahih that when this verse was revealed, the Prophet of Allah holding Ali by the hand, said: 'To whomsoever I am the maula (master), this Ali is also his maula.'"

In short, the warning contained in this verse says: "If you do it not then (it will be as if) you have not delivered His message (at all)..." shows that the message which the Holy Prophet had been ordered to deliver was of great importance. It was in fact essential to the completion of Prophethood itself. Therefore, the issue in question was surely the matter of the imamate, the conferring of authority on one who would guide the people according to the tenets of Islam after the death of the Holy Prophet.

Your trustworthy scholars, such as Jalalu'd-din Suyuti in Durru'l-Mansur, vol. II, p. 256
The Holy Prophet was highly pleased with the revelation of this verse. So, addressing the people, he said: "Allah is Great, He who has perfected for them their religion and has completed His favor on them and is satisfied with my Prophethood and Ali's vicegerency after me."

If "maula" or "wali" did not mean "one who has a greater claim on others," the latter phrase "after me" would be meaningless. And this sentence, which the Holy Prophet repeatedly uttered from his sacred tongue, proves that "maula" and "wali" mean "one who has greater claim on all others," because he said that rank in particular was granted to Ali after him.

giving ten meanings of the word in his Tadhkira-e-Khawas, ch. II, p. 20, says that none of them except the tenth one corresponds with what the Holy Prophet meant to say. He says: "The hadith specifically means obedience; so the tenth meaning is correct, and it means 'mastery over others.' Hence, the hadith means 'of whomever I am the 'maula' (master) Ali is also his 'maula' (master).'"

In the book Maraju'l-Bahrain Hafiz Abdu'l-Faraj Yahya Bin Sa'id Saqafi interprets it in the same way. He narrates this hadith with his own sources from his leaders, who said that the Holy Prophet, holding Ali by the hand, said: "Of whomsoever I am 'wali' or master over himself, Ali is also his 'wali' or master over himself."
Sibt Ibn Jauzi says, "The saying of the Holy Prophet that Ali has authority or is the master over the selves of all the believers clearly proves the Imamate or vicegerency of Ali and that obedience to him is obligatory."

I know you will never use ur mind after receieving good and sound references from ur sec.

At last : MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Because they all were the world after, where others went for this world and they snatch the right which was given by Allah and then Prophet to lead the Umma in right Direction... if you think caliph first second and third was right,, why all muslims are divided in multiple sects.. this was lack of knowlege..

Knowledge is only with Prophet MOhammad and Ahle byte.. .not by others who commit himself.. tha.. If Ali (as) was not thier we will go astray...

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Ok then please prove that,, "Salat heir minal Noom" and Taraweeh is pray in life of prophet, from books which both sects agreed,

if not then this authority is only with ALLAH and his messenger.

To Dance or Not To Dance...?
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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

SALMAN The PERSIAN:-was a Zorostrian ( magian- Parsi) turned Christian and perhaps towards the end of life became a Muslim.In April 627 The Meccans, with 7000 men including bedouins of Ghatafan and Asad tribes advanced towards Medina.In that grave situation Muhammed turned to his companion Salman.( kindly notice that I have not used capital C-in companion)Salman was a master of a differant kind of warfare- very Persian in nature, with which Arabs were not familiar.Arab style was champions challanging & then a great mix up.

Salman was the Pioneer of Trench Warfare.The Persian word for Trench-KHANDAK-is still in use, in fact it is a part of many Indian languages also.By digging the Trenches around the perimeter of Medina Salman fortified the defenses, giving much needed time to the Muslims to prepere themselves.Muhammed was said to have paid a complement to Salman's intelligence saying," If knowledge were attached to Pleiades, the men of his (Salman's) race would reach out and stretch for it"The ex-Zorostrian deserved it.

After the death of Prophet Salman left Medina, he didn't like Abu Bakr and preferred Ali

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Before going into detail , conversation, could you please explain you beliefe and name books which you think is athentic,
it will easy for me to give reference which you think correct, becz you continoulsy rejecting ur books,,

please tell me about ur sect to explain every thing clear.

if you wana know about me, I am atha ahari (shia).

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Part 2

We all agree the the Prophet (saw) was most precise in language and never ever use ambiguous in choice of words.

Why did he not use the word Imam? That should have solved a lot of problems for the Ummah.

And if Prophet (saw) really wanted to appoint Hz. Ali (ra) as Khalifah immediately after him than he could easily have said: “when I die, Ali (ra) is Khalifah over you”.

What is the meaning of Mawla in the hadith stating Sayyidina Ali is the Mawla of the Believers? Imam Shafi`i explained the hadith to of Sayyidina Ali’s muwalat refer to the pact of Islam between all the believers. Al-Sayyid Abdullah al-Talidi said:

  • What is meant by patronage (muwalat) here is the patronage of love (mahabba), Islam, and support (al-nusra). It is not the patronage of imamate that is meant. For the latter sense differs from fact whereas the Prophet (saws) does not inform us of other than fact." This and no other, is the position of the massive majority of the learned and unlearned Muslims since the first century until now.

Lastly I quote Sayyidina Al Hasan ibn Hasan ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib, the cousin of Imam Zainul Abideen, and the senior member of the Ahly Bayt in his time who said:

  • A Rafidhi (a person who rejects the Khilafa of Abu Bakr and Umar) said to him (Al Hasan ibn Hasan), “Did not the Messenger of Allah say to Ali ‘If i am Maula of someone , Ali is his Maula?’” He (Al Hasan) replied, “By Allah, if he meant the by that Amirate and rulership, he would have been more explicit to you in expressing that, just as he was explicit to you about the prayer, Zakat and Hajj to the House. He would have said to you, ‘Oh people! This is your protector after me.’ The Messenger of Allah gave the best good counsel to the people. If the business (of Imamat) had been as you say it is, and Allah and His Messenger had chosen Ali for this matter after the Prophet, then he would have been the person with the gravest error and wrong action since this would mean either that he ignored what the Messenger of Allah commanded him to do, or he would have made excuses to the people for having done so.” (Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d, Volume 5)

Lastly, let’s what Hz. Ali (ra) has to say on this matter.

In sermon 91 of Nahjul balagha, Hz. Ali (ra) is quoted having said the following:

When people decided to Swear allegiance(1) at Amir al-mu’minin’s hand after the murder of `Uthman, he said:
Leave me and seek some one else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you I would lead you as I know and would not care about whatever one may say or abuse. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief.

http://al-islam.org/nahjul/91.htm

This completely debunks shia theory of Ali’s divine-given right to be the leader of the Ummah.

How can someone who has been divinely appointed can utter:

  1. “Leave me and seek some one else.”
  2. “It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs.”
  3. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief.

Here Hz. Ali (ra) himself is claiming that he would be better as a counsellor than as Chief (leader).

The above has debunked all the crap shias tend to throw around with the word Mawla

Quote:
There are two points to be noted here. Firstly, the congratulation of the three companions indicates that it was in fact a very glorious moment for Ali a.s. For I see no reason why they would be congratulating him for becoming a ‘friend’ of the believers. I believe they were already friends. Am I right?

Secondly, how did Ali a.s. become the friend of believing ‘WOMEN’ as well as it clearly mentioned in the hadith? Also the hadith says the word ‘Today’. Should we presumme that Ali a.s. was not the friend of them ‘before’ that day?

  1. Hz. Ali (ra) is congratulated for being honoured to be the Protector, Guardian, Master, Patron, friend of Ummah. Nothing more and nothing less.

  2. Similarly, he has the same relationship with all the Believing women.

The word ‘friend’ would mean well-wisher and not some wild shia imaginations. Let your shia friend know that in English the word Friend has many meanings and not just what he has in mind.

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Healtymind –You may delude that you are on to something very big, but alas no, you are not.

Just after your very first question, you quoted a chapter from The History of al-Tabari, Volume 6 page 81 - Muhammad at Mecca, translated by W.Montgommery & M.V. MacDonald

Tell me healthymind who are these noble souls “since nothing reached any of them except what was sent secretly by those of the Quraysh who wished to maintain relations with them"

Don’t tell me that these were members of Bani Hashim and Banu al Muttalib (remember well that all these were confined to area called Shib Abi Talib.)

Now prove me that Hz. Abu Bakr and Hz. Umar (May Allah be pleased with them both) were not from among these noble souls who risked their lives and limb so that members of Bani Hashim and Banu al Muttalib could survive. Keep in mind that Prophet (saw) and Hz. Ali (ra) were among these ‘hostages.’

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

Then againn Salman farsi(ra) came in medina because ali(ra) was not chosen yet he took part in battles and made high official in iraq..his grave is still in mayan pak..near baghdad tody with huzaifa(ra) and jabir bin abdullah(ra).......so he did not like abu bakr(ra) but liked umar(ra) ....Mega LOL....

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

i have given the hadees ..plz. read it with your eyes open...

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Re: 20 Question from Ahle Sunnat Brothers

**healthymind **- read the following to get better understanding of the word Mawla

Definition

The word has a dual meaning of either master or servant.
A mawla is usually what a former slave, now servant, is referred as, i.e. someone who does not have tribal protection. For example “Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah” [link], since Salim was servant of Abu Hudhayfah.
Use

Qur’an

translations of Sura 47.11 from http://www.quranbrowser.com/
• transliterated:‘’ Thalika bi-anna Allaha mawla allatheena amanoo waanna alkafireena la mawla lahum
• Pickthall:'‘That is because Allah is patron of those who believe, and because the disbelievers have no patron.
• Yusuf Ali:’‘That is because God is the Protector of those who believe, but those who reject God have no protector.
• Shakir:’‘That is because Allah is the Protector of those who believe, and because the unbelievers shall have no protector for them.
• Sher Ali:’‘That is because ALLAH is the Protector of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no protector.
• Khalifa:’‘This is because GOD is the Lord of those who believe, while the disbelievers have no lord.
• Arberry:’‘That is because God is the Protector of the believers, and that the unbelievers have no protector.
• Palmer:’‘That is because God is the patron of those who believe, and because the misbelievers have no patron.
• Rodwell:’‘This - because God is the protector of those who believe, and because the infidels have no protector.
• Sale:’'This [shall come to pass], for that God is the patron of the true believers, and for that the infidels have no protector.

Hadith

It is also used in the statement of Muhammad in certain versions of the hadith of the pond of Khumm:

''Man Kuntu Mawla Fahaza Alliyun Mawla - Meaning “To whomsoever I am mawla, Ali is Mawla”

Controversies

The interpretation of the word “mawla” in the hadith of the pond of Khumm has given rise to controversies.

Sunni view

Sunni interpret it to mean “friend” if it is in fact a legitimate hadith. But the hadith, although it may be thought of as mutawatir by some, is still da’if. Al-Zayla’i said in Taareekh al-Hidaayah 1/189 “How many ahaadeeth there are which have many narrators and many isnaads, but they are da’eef (weak), such as the hadeeth “If I am someone’s mawla then ‘Ali is his mawla too”.”

Ibn Tayymiah, a prominent early Sunni scholar said, “As for his saying “If I am someone’s mawla then ‘Ali is his mawla too”, this is not in the books of Saheeh, but it is one of the reports which were narrated by the scholars and concerning whose authenticity the people disputed. It was narrated that al-Bukhaari, Ibraaheem al-Harbi and a group of scholars of hadeeth stated that it is not saheeh…

As for the additional material, which is the phrase ‘O Allaah, take as friends those who take him as a friend, and take as enemies those who take him as an enemy,’ etc., this is undoubtedly false.” Manhaaj al-Sunnah, 7/319 (Ibn Tayymiah further claimed that many of the ahadith with additions to them as false in his Manhaaj al-Sunnah) Al-Dhahabi said of the hadith, “As for the hadeeth, “If I am someone’s mawla then ‘Ali is his mawla too”, it has jayyid isnaads.”

**An explanation of the hadeeth is given assuming it is true by Al-Jazari in al-Nihaayah: **

“The word mawla is frequently mentioned in the hadeeth, and this is a name that is applied to many. It may refer to a lord, to an owner, to a master, to a benefactor, to one who frees a slave, to a supporter, to one who loves another, to a follower, to a neighbour, to a cousin (son of paternal uncle), to an ally, to an in-law, to a slave, to a freed slave, to one to whom one has done a favour. Most of these meanings are referred to in various ahaadeeth, so it is to be understand in the manner implied by the context of the hadeeth in which it is mentioned. Everyone who is in charge of some matter or is taking care of it is the mawla of that thing. The word mawla mentioned in this hadeeth may refer to most of the meanings indicated above…”

Shi’a view

Shi’a interpret it as meaning “master”

Shi’a also refer to Sura 5:55 by Shakir:
''Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

Where “Allah” is God, “His Apostle” is Muhammad and “those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow” is Ali, supporting their argument on the Hadith of giving Zakat while in Rukuh.

http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Mawla