Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
OUCH! :D]
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
Lack of evidence?
Are you even aware of what’s going on?
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Tells you alot about those types of "muslims".
what more evidence do u want?
can u tell me what type of muslim plans to kill other innocent people?
ppl in this thread did not condemn muslims, they condemned their actions. and muslims are condemned more because terrorism has no place in islam. killing OR conspiring to killing innocents is not allowed in islam. That is why muslims who do such things deserve more condemnation cuz they do something in the name of islam that is not even allowed in islam. and allll it does is bring bad name to muslims and islam.
being a muslim doesn't mean that u defend muslims doing wrong. being a muslims doesn't mean that u defend muslims that are bringing bad name to islam.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Dewana, does that 'evidence' proves that they were infact were going to blow up the buildings? You know, motives...if you have concrete evidence please share...!
Flashlights, fertilizer and gun does not make anyone a terrorist.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
are we missing the cell-phone detonator?
and please, let’s not forget that these individuals were picked up after a long surveillance of their activities, comings and goings, purchases of these items and also web-activity.
What does it make? Keep in mind we are talking about 3 tonnes of fertilizer where nobody picked up owns a farm.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
I mean its sad. You think the Prophet pbuh existing in this time would have responded the same way?
Us muslims keep islam secondary in our lives, and give it the least priority, and when something like this happens, we act like scholars and the "best" muslims come forward to condemn these "terrorists".
Just 'cause the media said so.
U think the Prophet would've allowed muslims to kill innocent men, women, and children? did the prophet himself ever engage in such barbaric behavior?
no one in this thread said who is best muslim and who isn't. and no one who condemnted the actions of the 17 ppl claimed to be good muslims.
on the record..i am the worse muslim alive..i am sooo close to being a kafir..but i still condemn their actions. and i do it not because the media said so. i condemn the action of such people because it is against the teachings of the Prophet (SAW)..it goes against the meaning of Islam.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
being a muslim doesn't mean that u defend muslims doing wrong. being a muslims doesn't mean that u defend muslims that are bringing bad name to islam.
more evidence?
a real trial, with lawyers, impartial witnesses and a people jury
by the same token, living in western countries do not mean you have to agree with anything that is fed to you by the media of that country, cause any western country is trying to manipulate its people in some ways...
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Flashlights, fertilizer and gun does not make anyone a terrorist.
detonators? fertilizers and guns. what is a muslim doing with such stuff? these ppl were tracked down. yes it is very easy to track down ppl with such activities these days.
just tell me what they wanted to do with an order of 3 tons of fertilizer.
They were gonna blow up something right?
If they were gonna blow up..what would they blow up? answer it for yourself.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
at the end of the day parissenoor, they will get a trial. It’s not like they are being executed right away.
Justice will take it’s course, insha-Allah.
The sad part is that these guys will sit in jail waiting for trial dates. Their lawyers will do everything in their power to cause further delays.
And all this time, the people that will pay the price will be the innocent muslims who don’t go around buying 3 tonnes of fertilizer, flashlights, sniper rifles or cell-phone detonators.
Masjids will be defaced.
Women in hijaab will be picked on.
Children in schools will be bullied and end up in fights.
It could even go to the extent of people losing jobs…
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
by the same token, living in western countries do not mean you have to agree with anything that is fed to you by the media of that country, cause any western country is trying to manipulate its people in some ways...
they will get the trial...i believe tomorrows their bail hearing right? and more evidence is going to be presented there.
BUT the damage has been done. and who is responsible? no one except than muslims themselves.
Just tell me this, in this case, what is the manipulation? did they not have suspicious activities? did they not have possession of suspicious material? these ppl were under surveillance and were caught red handed. the least we can do is condemn their actions and make sure such ppl don't start influencing our own children and families.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
They have found:
-Three tons of ammonium nitrate
-white sacks of fertilizer
-a cell phone in a box with wiring
-a board apparently used for target practice
-a computer hard drive and army fatigues.
it does not qualify you as a terrorist. Dewana jee derte kiyon ho...I am asking you for evidence rather making assumptions. O meri jaan, they can come to your apartment find a knife, wires and a board than declare you as a terrorist. They can go to many homes in Canada and find fertilizer, if not 3 tons than less than that you can blow lot of **** from it you know. You can find guns and board to practice it...but what makes you or someone a terrorists is motive, tell me Munza and Dewana what is their motive to kill people and blow up buildings?
What would reeally make them guilty is some confession or conversation that proves that it is them to be blamed. Otherwise, they are innocent people that are being humiliated because they are Muslims. Just look at the women with hijabs, it breaks my heart that they have to endure this. They are our sisters...
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
I don't suppose you know about the US concentration camps for the japanese living in america after pearl harbour then.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
Kesay…hum ne kiya kia…!
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
BUT the damage has been done. and who is responsible? no one except than muslims themselves.
Just tell me this, in this case, what is the manipulation? did they not have suspicious activities? did they not have possession of suspicious material? these ppl were under surveillance and were caught red handed. the least we can do is condemn their actions and make sure such ppl don't start influencing our own children and families.
when a driver is killing a innocent child with his car, people do not start to bully all drivers, and smash their home, and burn all neighborhood cars...
so why muslims are targeted for the actions of few terrorists in london, madrid and new york?
because of other muslims like you, who like to adopt the "victim attitude"
the manipulation is that the media WANTS you to feel guilty to be muslim, and that there is something wrong in it...but it's not
remember, drivers do kill many more people than some terrorists
why aren't those people who own the most dangerous weapon in the west : (big heavy cars ), targeted for their potentially criminal behavior ( driving)??
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
You recall guantanamo for the irish and Ireland being invaded?
You recall innocent irish families being arrested including gradmothers in dawn raids?
You recall colour coded terror alerts?
You recall cathalocism being blamed for the terror?
You recall the pope bing demonised?
etc etc...
no didn't think so.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
-Three tons of ammonium nitrate
-white sacks of fertilizer
-a cell phone in a box with wiring
-a board apparently used for target practice
-a computer hard drive and army fatigues.
it does not qualify you as a terrorist. Dewana jee derte kiyon ho...I am asking you for evidence rather making assumptions. O meri jaan, they can come to your apartment find a knife, wires and a board than declare you as a terrorist. They can go to many homes in Canada and find fertilizer, if not 3 tons than less than that you can blow lot of **** from it you know. You can find guns and board to practice it...but what makes you or someone a terrorists is motive, tell me Munza and Dewana what is their motive to kill people and blow up buildings.
What would reeally make them guilty is some confession or conversation that proves that it is them to be blamed. Otherwise, they are innocent people that are being humiliated because they are Muslims. Just look at the women with hijabs, it breaks my heart that they have to endure this. They are our sisters...
at least we agree that they have found that. now tell me what someone will want to do with some equipment? wouldn't it be a logical assumption that they were planning something?
What would you assume if you walked into someones apartment and they were in posession of arms and ammunition and detonators AND had extremist ideoligies? How many common hard working people have such equipment at their homes?
these people were being tracked down for sometime before being arrested. its not like all of a sudden the canadian authorities arrested them.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
First of all, the fact that you would list amonium nitrate and white fertilizer sacks separately goes to show how ill-informed you are of the entire subject.
Secondly, you obviously don’t know about the fact that the sale of this amonium nitrate took place through law enforcement authorities (aka a "sting operation). Which means that there was a considerable amount of surveillance and homework done by the police prior to the arrests.
When they come to my home they will not find any guns, boards to practice or fertilizer in such quantities. When they monitor my web and telephone conversations, they will not find anything suspicious. And this goes for 99 percent of the Muslims that I know.
What is their motive to blow up buildings? I dunno…why don’t you tell us what the motive was for 9/11?
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
i didnt take any sides silly billy. i just said canadian intelligence/govt could have faced this dilemma. its a tough situation to be in.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Sure you can be concerend all you want with the fertilizer but you have to agree that right now, they are not terrorist. They are innocent....now to extremists ideology...jeez most of the people in America have extremists ideologies whether Christians, Muslims or jews. They hate America and it policies, they don't run around killing people. Extreminism does not qualify you as a terrorist, motive does.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
so why muslims are targeted for the actions of few terrorists in london, madrid and new york?
because of other muslims like you, who like to adopt the "victim attitude" the manipulation is that the media WANTS you to feel guilty to be muslim, and that there is something wrong in it...but it's not
remember, drivers do kill many more people than some terrorists why aren't those people who own the most dangerous weapon in the west : (big heavy cars ), targeted for their potentially criminal behavior ( driving)??
i have not made any reference to the backlash to muslims. the backlash was expected. it is sad, but it is human nature. muslims themselves are guilty of backlashes. and i am not supporting backlashes, i condemn backlashes be they against islam or any other religion. i condemned the backlash in muslim countries against the danish cartoons and i condemn this backlash too.
and your analogy is not correct because a driver killing an innocent child could may well be an accident. also, the canadian authorities have already said that this has nothing to do against islam.
and i don't feel like a victim. because i have never had anyone treat me like a victim. all i'm saying, is that these actions have no link to islam.
"BUT the damage has been done. and who is responsible? no one except than muslims themselves. "
what i mean by this statement is that the damage to Islam has been done by people who portray such extremist ideologies and conspire to kill innocents. the damage is done to islam because islam has taught muslims to be peace loving tolerant people. and these people deface Islam people by their actions.
would you ever send your children to an islamic center where his/her teacher has extremist ideologies? children look up to imams and teachers. and what influence would a teacher have on his students if the teacher has extremist ideologies? what influence an imam would have if he supports violence? the damage is done right there because an imam who supports violence has portrayed the wrong message of Islam. All scholars agree that Islam is a peace loving religion, a religion that promotes peace and harmony amongst all religions. Then why do people somehow believe that violence is what islam teaches?
And the actions of muslims like these 17 people gives the media the chance to throw dirt on muslims and islam, and that is what i mean when i say that muslims deface islam by their own actions. Muslims have defaced islam by suicide bombings, by their untolerant reactions to the danish cartoons, by slaughtering other humans in kidnappings in iraq. all these actions have no place in islam, but they are done in the name of islam. and THAT is what defaces islam.