"17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"/ Toronto Trial - merged threads

[Man_with_a_Plan]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

Munza Quote

First of all, the fact that you would list amonium nitrate and white fertilizer sacks **separately goes to show how ill-informed you are of the entire subject.**

Wow, thank you for the info that you have informed so far. Just shows you how you are informed with your information. Jeez...look it up in the papers and reports, police reports suggests the same.

Secondly, you obviously don't know about the fact that the sale of this amonium nitrate took place through law enforcement authorities (aka a "sting operation). Which means that there was a considerable amount of surveillance and homework done by the police prior to the arrests.

Surveillance goes on every, where your phone, internet and other records are kept secretly since 9/11; Canadian or not...does that make anyone terrorists? Most of the Americans get their phone taped. It makes them terrorists...?

When they come to my home they will not find any guns, boards to practice or fertilizer in such quantities. When they monitor my web and telephone conversations, they will not find anything suspicious. And this goes for 99 percent of the Muslims that I know.

I was giving an example, don't worry...nothing will happen.

What is their motive to blow up buildings? I dunno.....why don't you tell us what the motive was for 9/11?

You don't know...that's the point. I said in my earlier post that it is the Canadian authorities that needs to show concerete and solid evidence that they were infact going to blow up buildings. Otherwise, they are innocent....

[Muzna]

Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

@Man with a Plan

Sure you can be concerend all you want with the fertilizer but you have to agree that right now, they are not terrorist. They are innocent…now to extremists ideology…jeez most of the people in America have extremists ideologies whether Christians, Muslims or jews. They hate America and it policies, they don’t run around killing people. Extreminism does not qualify you as a terrorist, motive does.

No. I don’t have to agree. I have my own opinion and I will stick to it.
I don’t believe that they have any need for the amount of amonium nitrate that was found in their possession.

They are suspects that have been arrested under the allegation of being terrorists. Obviously there is more than just circumstancial evidence otherwise the arrest warrants would not have been issued. If I were the judge, there would be no more evidence needed to arrest these folks.

Forget about the extremist ideology…please first answer the question that I posed…what was the motive for 9/11?

And while you are doing that, why don’t you explain to me why these folks were caught with the items mentioned above? What could possibly be their motive for collecting these items?

[parissenoor]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

@dewana tera

Muslims have defaced islam by suicide bombings, by their untolerant reactions to the danish cartoons, by slaughtering other humans in kidnappings in iraq. all these actions have no place in islam, but they are done in the name of islam. and THAT is what defaces islam.

true

[Man_with_a_Plan]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

**
"BUT the damage has been done. and who is responsible? no one except than muslims themselves. "

what i mean by this statement is that the damage to Islam has been done by people who portray such extremist ideologies and conspire to kill innocents. the damage is done to islam because islam has taught muslims to be peace loving tolerant people. and these people deface Islam people by their actions.

would you ever send your children to an islamic center where his/her teacher has extremist ideologies? children look up to imams and teachers. and what influence would a teacher have on his students if the teacher has extremist ideologies? what influence an imam would have if he supports violence? the damage is done right there because an imam who supports violence has portrayed the wrong message of Islam. All scholars agree that Islam is a peace loving religion, a religion that promotes peace and harmony amongst all religions. Then why do people somehow believe that violence is what islam teaches?

And the actions of muslims like these 17 people gives the media the chance to throw dirt on muslims and islam, and that is what i mean when i say that muslims deface islam by their own actions. Muslims have defaced islam by suicide bombings, by their untolerant reactions to the danish cartoons, by slaughtering other humans in kidnappings in iraq. all these actions have no place in islam, but they are done in the name of islam. and THAT is what defaces islam.**

Tell me this; how many of the 2 billion muslims do this?

Tell me this; how does the incidents of Abu Garib, Haditha and Iraq in general potray Christians, Americans and others who support that cause? just as a muslims I want to know your opinion.

If you think all Americans are evil and Christians are bad that you are wrong, and it is your fault and ignorance. Just as some Al-Crakaa think the same about your religion and identity.

[Mehnaz]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

They just reported on the radio that the oldest guy in the group who was arrested preached regularly at the masjid ... gave very violent speeches that encouraged young kids to have an "us against them" mentality. Did anybody actually go to this masjid? It's in Mississauga? Meadowvale?

[dewana_tera]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

@Man with a Plan

Sure you can be concerend all you want with the fertilizer but you have to agree that right now, they are not terrorist. They are innocent....now to extremists ideology...jeez most of the people in America have extremists ideologies whether Christians, Muslims or jews. They hate America and it policies, they don't run around killing people. Extreminism does not qualify you as a terrorist, motive does.

u can call them whatever that pleases you...but in my opionion they are terrorists because they were caught in the act of planning an attack.

how many of the most people in America with extremist ideologies have planned an attack and/or acted on their extremist ideologies??

these 17 people had extremist ideologies AND the motive. if they didn't have a motive they wouldn't be in possession of such items.

[Muzna]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

Mehnaz.....I don't know if it's in Meadowvale but it sounds like the masjid at Eglinton and Terry Fox. The one that I referred to earlier in the thread.

[parissenoor]

Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

@Man with a Plan

Tell me this; how many of the 2 billion muslims do this?

Tell me this; how does the incidents of Abu Garib, Haditha and Iraq in general potray Christians, Americans and others who support that cause? just as a muslims I want to know your opinion.

If you think all Americans are evil and Christians are bad that you are wrong, and it is your fault and ignorance. Just as some Al-Crakaa think the same about your religion and identity.

:k:

[Man_with_a_Plan]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

Munza, you are going way way off topic here with 9/11.

You have your opinion about the suspects, just like me, but we can not declare them as terrorists and kill them. That's my point from the start...we have to look at the concerete motive.

I don't know their motive of collecting these items but it certainly not to blow up buildings, I will if Canadian police and government proves as such. Until then they are innocent.

Possesion of it does not qualify them as terrorist.

Dewana thats my point, you can be extremists and not kill innocent people. In this case, if they were planning to kill......the prove can be shown otherwise why would you label them as terrorists?

[dewana_tera]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

@Man with a Plan

"BUT the damage has been done. and who is responsible? no one except than muslims themselves. "

what i mean by this statement is that the damage to Islam has been done by people who portray such extremist ideologies and conspire to kill innocents. the damage is done to islam because islam has taught muslims to be peace loving tolerant people. and these people deface Islam people by their actions.

*would you ever send your children to an islamic center where his/her teacher has extremist ideologies? children look up to imams and teachers. and what influence would a teacher have on his students if the teacher has extremist ideologies? what influence an imam would have if he supports violence? the damage is done right there because an imam who supports violence has portrayed the wrong message of Islam. All scholars agree that Islam is a peace loving religion, a religion that promotes peace and harmony amongst all religions. Then why do people somehow believe that violence is what islam teaches? *

And the actions of muslims like these 17 people gives the media the chance to throw dirt on muslims and islam, and that is what i mean when i say that muslims deface islam by their own actions. Muslims have defaced islam by suicide bombings, by their untolerant reactions to the danish cartoons, by slaughtering other humans in kidnappings in iraq. all these actions have no place in islam, but they are done in the name of islam. and THAT is what defaces islam.

Tell me this; how many of the 2 billion muslims do this?

Tell me this; how does the incidents of Abu Garib, Haditha and Iraq in general potray Christians, Americans and others who support that cause? just as a muslims I want to know your opinion.

If you think all Americans are evil and Christians are bad that you are wrong, and it is your fault and ignorance. Just as some Al-Crakaa think the same about your religion and identity.

the incidents in abu gharib and etc were not religiously motivated. they are condemned by all americans.

muslims are condemned because Islam teaches muslims each and every aspect of life. and they go against those teachings. that is why muslims are more condemned than other religions. and the actions of few defaces Islam because they act in the name of islam.

when did i say that i think americans are evil? i can never think that all americans are evil and all christians are bad because that is not what Islam has taught me.

along the same lines...is it fair that some people want to bomb civilian buildings to take revenge? no right?

[dewana_tera]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

@Man with a Plan

Munza, you are going way way off topic here with 9/11.

You have your opinion about the suspects, just like me, but we can not declare them as terrorists and kill them. That's my point from the start...we have to look at the concerete motive.

I don't know their motive of collecting these items but it certainly not to blow up buildings, I will if Canadian police and government proves as such. Until then they are innocent.

Possesion of it does not qualify them as terrorist.

Dewana thats my point, you can be extremists and not kill innocent people. In this case, if they were planning to kill......the prove can be shown otherwise why would you label them as terrorists?

can you come up with any other motive? just tell me ONE motive that requires posession of such equipment.

[Muzna]

Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

@Man with a Plan

Munza, you are going way way off topic here with 9/11.

You have your opinion about the suspects, just like me, but we can not declare them as terrorists and kill them. That’s my point from the start…we have to look at the concerete motive.

I don’t know their motive of collecting these items but it certainly not to blow up buildings, I will if Canadian police and government proves as such. Until then they are innocent.

Possesion of it does not qualify them as terrorist.

Dewana thats my point, you can be extremists and not kill innocent people. In this case, if they were planning to kill…the prove can be shown otherwise why would you label them as terrorists?

Why am I way off topic? I think I’m bang on and you are avoiding the question.
Humour me for a bit if you think that I am off topic. Just tell me what the motive was for the attacks that took place on 9/11?

Nobody has passed judgement, yet. They are suspects that have been caught with a certain number of items. If this means that the majority of the public will form an opinion, what is wrong with that? What would you think of someone that took a slaughter knife and headed off to the barn? Wouldn’t you suspect that they are off to kill an animal? The same rule applies.

The justice system is there to determine the concrete motive. As time goes by and other pieces of information become publicly known, the motive will become clear. The trials will answer a great deal of questions.

Finally, what does possession of these items qualify them to be?

[Man_with_a_Plan]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

The point is war in iraq was wrong and it killed over 100,000 people. It was a lie, if terrorists are some of us than what would say if the greatest country in the world tells a lie and inavdes the country?

Meri jaan, I am not defending them or anything relating to it. All I am saying if you read my posts from start that they can not be delcare as terrorists as most of us over here are jumping the gun. Let the authorities prove that they were going to blow up buildings than I am all for prosecuting them.

Now to motive, I don't what they want to do with 3 tons of fertilizer, gun and flash light but I would not agree that they were going to blow up the buildings unless some susbstantial evidence and motives are presented as such. Comparande`

[Man_with_a_Plan]

Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

@Muzna

Why am I way off topic? I think I’m bang on and you are avoiding the question.
Humour me for a bit if you think that I am off topic. Just tell me what the motive was for the attacks that took place on 9/11?

You are way off topic because this is not 9/11 and or anything relate to it. 9/11 was a pre-planned terrorists attacked that did not go under the radar with the American and other authorities. They did have a way to catch them via memo namely ‘Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S’ and unfortunately they failed.

Now to motives, Bin Laden wanted to attack inside U.S…does that clear things up or band things in for you?..but you are way off topic with it though.

[Crescent]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

So when tommorrow they arrest you for having Screwdrivers and wires in your house, you can rest assured your views will change.

And then you can claim that "there was so much evidence".

Call in the lawn guys, and tell them to do your lawn. ANd Call the authorities, cuz for sure they're bringing in tons of *amonium nitrate. *

These guys are innocent as can be. And the darpok goras are just trying to give muslims a bad name. Unfortunately, by not realizing the muslims themselves are giving others a bad name.

If anything, its not those guys in jail that are giving muslims a bad name...its the muslims that are becoming so ignorant and giving into EVERYTHING the media provides them, withouth thinking on their own simple logic.

[Crescent]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

So when tommorrow they arrest you for having Screwdrivers and wires in your house, you can rest assured your views will change.

And then you can claim that "there was so much evidence".

Call in the lawn guys, and tell them to do your lawn. ANd Call the authorities, cuz for sure they're bringing in tons of *amonium nitrate. *

These guys are innocent as can be. And the darpok goras are just trying to give muslims a bad name. Unfortunately, by not realizing the muslims themselves are giving others a bad name.

If anything, its not those guys in jail that are giving muslims a bad name...its the muslims that are becoming so ignorant and giving into EVERYTHING the media provides them, withouth thinking on their own simple logic.

[dewana_tera]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

@Crescent_

So when tommorrow they arrest you for having Screwdrivers and wires in your house, you can rest assured your views will change.

And then you can claim that "there was so much evidence".

Call in the lawn guys, and tell them to do your lawn. ANd Call the authorities, cuz for sure they're bringing in tons of *amonium nitrate. *

These guys are innocent as can be. And the darpok goras are just trying to give muslims a bad name. Unfortunately, by not realizing the muslims themselves are giving others a bad name.

If anything, its not those guys in jail that are giving muslims a bad name...its the muslims that are becoming so ignorant and giving into EVERYTHING the media provides them, withouth thinking on their own simple logic.

were these guys lawn guys?
they had much more than screwdrivers and wires. guns? detonators? criminal links. extremist ideas. how can they be innocent after being in possession of such stuff? how can you be so ignorant as to call them innocents.

[Crescent]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

@dewana tera

were these guys lawn guys? they had much more than screwdrivers and wires. guns? detonators? criminal links. extremist ideas. how can they be innocent after being in possession of such stuff? how can you be so ignorant as to call them innocents.

No but ANYONE can purchase fertilizer 3tonne or 5 tonne. The Lawn guys can bring in more. Are they terrorist? No , you're condemning the muslims in jail because the media told u to do so.

Secondly, you can read theirminds? The media said they had criminal links and extremist ideas, and you put ur hands on ur lap and agree that they did?

Tomorrow if someone comes to you and says Your brothers and family members are part of Alqaida, you're gunna believe them hands down?

How can you be so ignorant as to condemn muslims as terrorists, when the Prophet pbuh clearly told us not to judge anyone until you can prove he has done something wrong. What about those fundamental laws? of Muslim brotherhood? Are you so ignorant of that?

Its clear you can easily believe whatever the media wants you to believe.
I really can't say anything about that.

I just hope the media never says anything about someone you care about...cuz I'd feel sorry for them, since they certainly won't have your support.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

I see the argument among those with extremist ideologies following a circular path unfortunately.

1. There is only circumstantial evidence to link these Muslims to terrorism and it is unlikely that Muslims can be involved in terrorism. (These same people have no problem believing even the minutest of circumstantial evidence that puts the US or the West in a bad light)

2. However, if Muslims were hypothetically involved in terrorism it would be justified since the West is always the greater terrorists due to their actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. (No matter that this argument proves that so-called "Muslim" actions are no better than the actions of the "enemies".)

3. Go to 1.

This is a self-defeating argument since it not only blurs the difference between right and wrong that Islam has taught us all, it also goes against rational thought concepts like Occam’s razor for instance.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

Crescent, are you saying that these Muslims are in the gardening business? If so, where did you get this information from? Or perhaps you are doing exactly what you accuse the media and police of doing by making something up?

I don't know about others, but I do have more trust in the Canadian media and police then I do in some internet poster.