Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
It's important to note the role of the Canadian Muslim community in capturing these idiots. I heard Canadian officials say that it was Muslims who tipped them off about these people. By catching these people, the Canadian politice have done a great favor for the Muslim world, for the Canadian Muslim community, and for human life in general.
These terrorists who do all this in the name of Islam are the biggest enemy of Islam.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
^ No I disagree. Whatever the "terrorist" of the world do, thats wrong ok. But The biggest enemy of islam is...
wait...
yes you're right. THe biggest enemy of islam are the muslims. THe sleeping ones.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
Are you somehow referencing to this one as well?
:bism:
2:191] And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out;** for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter**; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunity)
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
I would love to know how oppression is being fought by bombing markets, buses, schools, offices in a Muslim country. How is oppression being defeated by beheading random people in Iraq? How much oppression stopped after the Spanish, British subway bombings? How many Muslims are living a better life after the 9/11 attacks? How many Muslims are no longer starving because of Taliban raids in Afghanistan or Al Qaeda raids in Iraq?
Pointing out faults of the West or anyone else is very different from supporting or encouraging deliberate attacks on civilian populations of any land. Today it is the Muslims who have chosen not to follow the words in the Quran by transgressing the limits of what is allowed in war and have become the oppressors in many places. Anwaar, you missed some parts of the passage.
2:190
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you,** but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. **
2:191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
2:192
But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. **
2:193
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. **
2:194
The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. *But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. *
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
I dont think anyone here disagrees with that killing innocents/civilians anywhere by anyone is wrong!!
i am a muslim, but i do many things that are not Islamic i.e. against Islam..May Allah give me and everyone the stance to rectify humaari mistakes and May He forgive us..Ameen
now lets say Allah na karey Pakistan is attacked by america!! we have foriegn troops all over the country! at the moment i believe i’ll go and only fight and kill the troops and not the civilians!
but when i am actually in that situation, would i be able to bear our civilians being bombed/killed and foriegn civilians roaming around in the streets??? can i really say i wudnt harm them??? no
ok.. lets say Allah na karey uk is attacked by Muslim country(which seems highly unlikely); u really believe gore loag would spare us civilians??? no
yes it wrong… but it just happens… u cannot just sit there and see ur country being bombed and do nothing cuz its wrong… u’d actually try everything u can to help ur country…
whether ur efforts bear a phal is contrary to the point…
this is the situation in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine!!!
now those who are killing in the west i.e. bombongs etc. there is a war going on guys against terrorism if u like; by the west; so how can the enemy not fight back yaar??? in a war both sides are bound to get harmed, one more and the other less! its wrong?!! but its today’s war!! so the attacking west did the wrong first, and the attacking back terrorists are doing wrong second!
those killing other muslims, in their own countries is wrong! what can u say..May Allah help us! aameen
and 9/11; come on guys.. not even americans themselves believe the story;; how can u??? it doesnt even make common sense yaar..its about time u lot change ur views regarding 9/11 please..that might help us all to see the bigger picture!!!
Lajawab; Crescent_; Anwaar Qureshi 
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Pointing out faults of the West or anyone else is very different from supporting or encouraging deliberate attacks on civilian populations of any land. yes Today it is the Muslims who have chosen not to follow the words in the Quran by transgressing the limits of what is allowed in war and have become the oppressors in many places.who are you to judge all muslims? Anwaar, you missed some parts of the passage.
i share most of Anwaar, lajawab, hum hain and crescent comments on the topic at hand.
we have to stay aware of two extremely important pooints:
regarding terorist issues, we as simple cicilains, have no other way to know FACTS than "trusting" any other information sources: television, radio, newspapers,internet, press conference....
these information media are highly easily manipulated by money! who has more money ? who can best manipulate informations?
poor muslims civilians in irak and afghanistan, or american and europeans business men??
the question is not the morality of american over arab/south asian countries, both have bad and good people in their countries, the question IS why this fuss around islamist terorism? who have motive and interest in attacking muslim governement and civilians?
look for economic motivation, look for cash flows, and you get answers to some world issues....
it's not the iraki or afghani population who gets the more money from those wars, it's the plants making firearms and amunitions for US army
it's the workers of western NGO working in Irak and afghanistan
it's the security forces (former western elite soldiers) working there
it's the oil companies and steel companies
who made 9/11? i don't know and it doesn't bother me cause the interests it serves are clearly not those of the muslims
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
:k: 
Wah wah, AQ bhai…ap nay tu kamal hi kar diya.:k:
Meray mounh ki baat cheen li.
For the proof other people can watch Dr. Shahid Masood’s documentary on this topic.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Zarqawi, one of the biggest murderers of Iraqi people is now also dead. I'm sure some of you will say he was also a CIA/Mossad agent, but in fact he was part of the extremist ideology that some on this thread also subscribe to. I'm not talking about resisting an occupying army, I'm talking about bombing wedding parties, schools, buses etc that Zarqawi used to do.
Paris, when have I said that that the wars is a good thing for Muslims? I have been arguing the opposite all along. As for 9/11, of course it was bad for Muslims, but it would not be the first time that Muslims have done something that was bad for them!
OMG, what does Dr. Shahid have to say to the families of those who were on the airplanes that died? They were just somebody's imagination? These people called their families to tell them the plane was hijacked? Why do some people have a hard time believing that some Muslims believe in committing suicide to kill Americans and others they don't agree with? It has even happened in Pakistan so many times now. No need to live in denial, we must accept our mistakes. I'm not against pointing out the mistakes of others, never was. I'm just against this self delusion that we live in that does not allow us to condemn any wrong by other Muslims.
I too had a hard time believing that any Muslim would kill himself and so many civilians, but then I realized this was already happening in Palestine. Whether you think this is justified or not, it still is reality of Muslim actions. Not saying the other side is angels here. We are no better.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
You are speaking to me as if I hold the scale in my own hands.
You are bordering on comical now.
Justice will be handed out by the courts, and they have my complete support until such time that someone is able to prove they are not worthy.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
None of them are Indians or Pakistanis.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Paris, when have I said that that the wars is a good thing for Muslims? I have been arguing the opposite all along. As for 9/11, of course it was bad for Muslims, but it would not be the first time that Muslims have done something that was bad for them!
OMG, what does Dr. Shahid have to say to the families of those who were on the airplanes that died? They were just somebody's imagination? These people called their families to tell them the plane was hijacked? Why do some people have a hard time believing that some Muslims believe in committing suicide to kill Americans and others they don't agree with? It has even happened in Pakistan so many times now. No need to live in denial, we must accept our mistakes. I'm not against pointing out the mistakes of others, never was. I'm just against this self delusion that we live in that does not allow us to condemn any wrong by other Muslims.
I too had a hard time believing that any Muslim would kill himself and so many civilians, but then I realized this was already happening in Palestine. Whether you think this is justified or not, it still is reality of Muslim actions. Not saying the other side is angels here. We are no better.
What Proof do you have except for FOX, CNN, and ABC that muslims were responsible for 9/11?
Do you know how many proofs there are that the Government was involved? WAY more then those condemning muslims!
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
Justice will be handed out by the courts, and they have my complete support until such time that someone is able to prove they are not worthy.
So you agree that you're supporting a system thats unjust?
Great, keep defending the unjust system.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
You can't just make up the families of the victims who were on the planes. Nor can you make up the views of the Muslim extremists who support 9/11. For proof of Muslims being behind suicide bombings, you just need to look at Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia, UK, India, Spain and all other places Muslims have blown themselves up.
If you want to deny reality, that is your choice. This has nothing to do with what Fox or Taliban weekly reports. The problem is that people with your mindset will never believe any proof that goes against your world views. You will simply call it American propaganda no matter the reality of the world.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
By what definition have you declared Canada's court system as unjust? You have really left reality behind. Anything that goes against what you believe is now unjust.
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
So then why is their news paper reporting the following?
Not me, I think you should wake up to reality..
Lawyers and family members said they were being given too little information about the case, and charged that the suspects' rights were not being respected.
Rocco Galati, a lawyer for suspect Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, told the judge that his client's constitutional rights had been violated because he was only able to interview him in the presence of an armed guard.
"The right to private counsel was afforded even at Nuremberg," Galati said.
Outside the court, Donald McLeod, a lawyer for Jahmaal James, 23, also complained of restricted access to his client, including only being allowed to speak to the accused through Plexiglas and not being allowed to have private discussions.
Arif Raza, who represents Saad Khalid, 19, said he had never been allowed to speak to his client and was not even allowed to slip him his business card so Khalid could attempt to call the lawyer from the Maplehurst Correctional Center outside of Toronto.
Forbes.com
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
If you want to deny reality, that is your choice. This has nothing to do with what Fox or Taliban weekly reports. The problem is that people with your mindset will never believe any proof that goes against your world views. You will simply call it American propaganda no matter the reality of the world.
Make up the families?
Is that the proof you gave for muslims behind the "attack". Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia, UK, inda, Spain...Do you know what oppression the muslim world is going through?
The problem isn't my mindset, its your failure to see the big picture.
You can cry about 3000 people dying in the trade center, hold memorials for them. But when it comes to millions dying around the world, and million more without aid and shelter. You label them all as "terrorists".
Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"
In support of what Crescent has said about world oppression by the west, especially in the oil rich Muslim countries, according to the Red Cross after the first Gulf War the American sanctions caused over half a million casualties (majority being women and children) in Iraq, while Saddam was unaffected. So excuse me if my heart doesnt bleed every time an American life is lost. I dont condone violence against any sect or creed, but I wont let the injustice of the west against the muslim ummah be covered up as they have been for the last 20 years. If a couple of Christian kids get up and slaughter people just for the heck of it, they are NEVER labelled terrorists and neither is Christianity blamed, but if a handful of misguided muslims get and up and commit a similar crime, immediately the media BRANDS them as terrorist and portrays Islam as a violent religion. Till today Timothy McVeigh who was responsible for the Oklahoma Bombing has not been portrayed as a terrorist and neither has his religious views been emphasized. We seem to be at the mercy of the media, and we forget everytime that its not the individual we are defending but our faith. I dont care about these kids in the news, but I do care how the media is continuously exploiting and portraying our religion as one that condones and encourages violence. I am sorry but that is just BS. Blame the person but when you blame the religion, thats when we as muslims need to stand shoulder to shoulder and defend that which defines us.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
Crescent, the Canadian justice system is 100 times better then anything available in Muslim lands for a long time. Armed guard or not, at least he was allowed to a lawyer. Can you say the same for the victims of Muslim terrorism around the world? Is this the only thing that you can use to accuse the entire Canadian justice system of being unjust? Because of what one defense lawyer who is paid to say this, said? You claim to want proof of everything yet you are willing to pounce on even the slightest negative statement by one individual against countries you don’t like.
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
How much you did you get paid? tell me now 
You seem to know a lot inside stories.
ye aap ko ilhaam hotaa hai yaa ilqa?
kashf maiN majzoobiat kee kaifiat mehsoos kartaY ho geY?
awww..
I wish you can come up with some more stupid comments like these 
Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”
Yes, the families. You haven’t answered me about it like so many other questions that you have dodged.
But you now admit that Muslims are behind these bombings and they are justified because of the perceived “oppression” against them everywhere. Why did it take you so long to admit your true feelings towards terrorism? If you support terror, come out and say it. Don’t hide behind accusing others of orchestrating these attacks to blame Muslims.
I’m glad you like looking at the big picture. You should also look at the big picture of what will happen to those murder innocent people through beheadings and bomb attacks because they feel they are “oppressed”. Most of the oppression against Muslims is committed by fellow Muslims like the late Zarqawi. He got his punishment in this world and Inshallah he will get it in the hereafter.
And yes, I will cry for any innocent killed, whether in American or Pakistan at the hands of Americans or Muslims or Buddhists. You can continue laughing about it, if it it is indeed the best you can do.