"17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"/ Toronto Trial - merged threads

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

Wow, so many brown nosers tripping themselves in a hurry to prove to the "land of the free" how patriotic they are. Good thing these guys are actually going to have a trial, otherwise if it was left to some of the people on this board, they would have been six feet under already.

Hundreds of innocent muslims die everyday in places like Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq, Chehnya and there isn't a single PEEP about them. But lo and behold, some white non-muslims NEARLY died and all of a sudden this is the biggest story of the century. Give me a fuking break.

Think outside your myopic little worlds, there are more pressing concerns in the world than being seen as anything less than a patriot to your gora pals at work or wondering if your kid can still go to that sleep over on the weekend.

Why stop at 3 tons of ammonium nitrate? Why doesn't the Canadian authorities storm all those cushy suburbs and arrest anyone in possession of more than 10 kg fertilizer? After all, that's still enough to cause a sizeable explosion. Why not arrest anyone who happens to be in possession of a licensed handgun? Heck, all those tech geeks like me who like to take their PC apart shud be placed in dentention camps for questioning. You know how many timers there are in your PC?

If these guys are proven guilty, I will be the first to say that they should be sentenced immediately. But lets get off our high horses lest we trip in our hurry to persecute and fall on our behinds.

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I love how people that cry for their "fellow muslim brothers" are so selective in what they read.

How many times have people said that justice needs to take it's course? How many times has it been suggested that it is all "alleged" and they are not being referred to as "terrorists" but "suspects"?

What really gets me is that these same folks are the ones that are ready to crucify at merely the hint of wrong doing.....forget the concept of innocent until proven guilty when it's a non-muslim in the gallows.

And when it's their own who appear to be at fault, then conspiracy theories abound and of course it's the media and the courts and it's all a set-up.

Pulease.

Like the authorities in Canada have nothing better to do but to sit around and plot against 17 Muslim individuals. And might I ask what the motive is? Why pick these 17? Why pick 5 minors? Why pick the mosques that they did?

Next thing you know the trials will be over, convictions will occur and then these very same folks can line up to discuss how it was all a set-up.

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And millions of Muslims have been massacred by the Muslims themselves! Do we know how many Bangalis, brothers and sisters in Islam, were killed in 1971? A modest estimate places the figure at 3 millions. This is besides the 0.4 millions women that we dishonored. What happened in Karachi back in 1980s and what in Afghanistan?

And why don't you ask Kurds whom the West liberated from the clutches of Saddam's Arab oppression. A lot are still suffering in Turkey, Iran, and Syria.

I wonder how do Muslims ignore their own atrocities and worst crimes against other Muslims while pointing fingures at others?

And it is not about religion. It is about power and resources.

Terrorism should be dealt with effectively.

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Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

Absolutely!

And I just noticed this…

skhan,

How do you know that muslims would not have been killed in the “allegedly” planned attacks the suspects were plotting?

What makes you think that they would only have been white non-muslims?

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

This doesn't fly.

For those of us old enough to remember, the Soviets used to do the same thing. They used to catch arbitrary people, bring them up on dummy charges against the state, and "present" evidence of a conspiracy against the Soviet people to drum up support. This is typical of third world politics, also.

What separates us from that? An independent judiciary, part of which is a defense team that is allowed to independently investigate the evidence put forth by law enforcement. That hasn't happened yet. This, according to statements by the defense lawyer, Rocco Galati (on a CBC HIH interview).

And without that, it's exactly what I said: the law enforcement is simply presenting "evidence". Why presume they're on the up-and-up? Is there NO conceivable benefit the Harper government, or any government, can obtain from random arrests? I mean, Harper has already used the arrests to justify his neo-con leanings...smacks of conviction before trial if you ask me. Fine and dandy, but not from a PM. In any case, this shouldn't be a matter of "trust". This is a matter of justice, and the way things are going so far, it's looking bad.

Anyhow, if the case is so rock-solid, then why put these guys in a black hole, such as the alleged terrorists nabbed in Ottawa not too long ago? Chances are, if they are guilty, they'll self-incriminate.

To be honest, I'm very well prepared for a guilty verdict. It wouldn't surprise me, it's not inconceivable. But then, why all the weirdness?

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Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

I second; or rather third that.

Welcome a NEW mod
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Well Said. Some people are more scared , and worried about themselves and how bad image will affect "them" to even care about those in custody.

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Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

Since the country involved is Canada it’s a safe assumption that the majority would have been white non-muslims. Whether there are Muslims present is not the point. The point is why the double standards? Terrorism in the North America and Europe is no different from terrorism in the Middle East or Asia. Blood spilt by means of fertilizer and air planes is no different than blood spilt by car bombs and air strikes. People like to think that terrorism was an issue after 911 when in fact it has been going on long before then. It’s only when it hits closer to home, that people sit up and take notice.

Where are the judge, jury and executioners for all the terrorist acts that have actually HAPPEND and are still ongoing? And don’t drag other Muslims into this. I never said that we are the victims of only non-Muslims. But this issue is about all terrorism. Muslim, non-muslim, all terrorists should be punished. Not just the sitting ducks who happen to be residing on a visa somewhere in the US or Canada.

Try them, find them guilty and then toot your horns. There should be zero tolerance against terrorism of ALL kinds.

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Actually the word terrorist is being thrown around like a rag doll...but its justified by adding the word suspect to it. Its not the allegations but the way media is portraying them even before the darn trial. Weird people are being interviewed that would rarely be even noticed in our daily lives...take for example "Risk Management supervisor" this guy sees how vulnerable huge skyscrappers are to dangers and yes behold terrorist attacks...who gives? but now suddenly they are important.

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

First of all, I can't comment on what the Soviets did.....nor can I comment on the judicial systems in third world countries except to say that I am confident there is at least a little less corruption here. And I can say that because I have first-hand knowledge of the system, otherwise I wouldn't even say that much.

I have not lost enough faith in the Canadian system to assume that these are arbitrary individuals. I refuse to believe that. Not under the circumstances. And this is not a reflection of my opinion about the individuals themselves, but my opinion of the Canadian system.

[quote]
What separates us from that? An independent judiciary, part of which is a defense team that is allowed to independently investigate the evidence put forth by law enforcement. That hasn't happened yet.
[/quote]

Correct. It hasn't happened yet. So why all the hoopla? Let it take it's course and then we'll see. Just promise me that you will not then be crying foul.

[quote]
In any case, this shouldn't be a matter of "trust". This is a matter of justice, and the way things are going so far, it's looking bad.
[/quote]

It has to be a matter of trust. There is no other way.
If you do not trust the system, then no matter what they do, you will not be satisfied. You will only want the suspects freed. And that's not good for any system.

[quote]
Anyhow, if the case is so rock-solid, then why put these guys in a black hole, such as the alleged terrorists nabbed in Ottawa not too long ago? Chances are, if they are guilty, they'll self-incriminate.
[/quote]

Maybe they need to be in a black hole so that evidence remains intact. Again, the issue of trusting the system comes up. If you don't trust the system, you have nothing.

And finally, on the self-incriminate theory......are you serious? Imagine if we used this concept to get evidence on all the criminals that have been rightfully convicted in the past. More than half of them would be out there re-committing.

[quote]
To be honest, I'm very well prepared for a guilty verdict. It wouldn't surprise me....
[/QUOTE]

So while everyone shouts "innocent before proven guilty" for the suspects, you have decided to try and convict the system even before the process has begun. Well done.

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

Like I said before. The argument from the usual suspects is simple.

"They are innocent until proven guilty"

"If guilty, the system is corrupt"

"The West are also terrorists"

This is part of the effort to deny the existence of Muslim extremism today.

And on the topic of trying Sharon for Sabra and Shatila. What is Lebanon doing to try the Christian miltias actually responsible for the crime? What is Syria doing to try the people responsible for the Hama massacre? Or Pakistan for East Pakistan massacre? Or Sudan for Darfur massacre? Does this all mean that attacking Lebanon, Syria, Pakistan or Sudan is now ok?

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I wholeheartedly condemn fascism, without any conditions placed on that condemnation. That fascism does not represent my religion or identity, we are better than that. The fact of the matter is I have to defend my religion, identity and fellow Muslims when they are subject to 'labelling' and in a light of 'guilty until proven innocent'. This is exactly we have been disscussing, at least with me, why do they have 3 tons of fertilizer? Possesion of it makes them suspect of terror? Like they have to prove their innocent when no charges are filed. This is I am against, it puts my religion and identity in bad light, which it does not deserve.

If they are proven guilty in the court, I will chastize them for being stupid. The reason of it being living in a country that neither marginalized Muslims like France nor possess any kind of fear and contempt for it fellow minorities. The point is since 9/11, Islam and Muslims have been 'lablled' are terrorists. We have to live a life that 'pleases' the West. Otherwise we are 'terror suspests'....this is I am against because it cries racism loud and clear.

Muslims need to stand up, step up not only to enhace their communities but also against racism that West has projected in their media and daily lives.

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

I wasn't soliciting comment on the Soviets or on third world nations, simply pointing out what is characteristic about their notions of justice. We will see shortly how open things are to Mr. Galati...

[quote]

I have not lost enough faith in the Canadian system to assume that these are arbitrary individuals. I refuse to believe that.

[/quote]

It shouldn't be a matter of faith. The question is: what safeguards are in place to prevent from such a scheme? We have them in place, but they seem to be suspended...

[quote]

It has to be a matter of trust. There is no other way.
If you do not trust the system, then no matter what they do, you will not be satisfied. You will only want the suspects freed. And that's not good for any system.

[/quote]

Nonsense. I trust the system as it is. Anti-terrorism legislation seriously alters the system, and allows the judiciary to take short cuts in the name of security.

[quote]

Maybe they need to be in a black hole so that evidence remains intact. Again, the issue of trusting the system comes up. If you don't trust the system, you have nothing.

[/quote]

This is not typical...I have no idea how evidence remains intact by disappearing the accused.

[quote]

And finally, on the self-incriminate theory......are you serious? Imagine if we used this concept to get evidence on all the criminals that have been rightfully convicted in the past. More than half of them would be out there re-committing.

[/quote]

The point was, why hole them up? Are you seriously implying that they be denied a hearing? The question was, what on earth does the prosecution, or society at large, have to gain by this?

[quote]

So while everyone shouts "innocent before proven guilty" for the suspects, you have decided to try and convict the system even before the process has begun. Well done.
[/quote]

Yes, because it's not the typical state of affairs. This is something new, and as I've alluded to, potentially very dangerous...

These are not the same courts that, say, charged the Biker gangs. This is something special, and something that could lead to arbitrary arrests and detentions. It's only proper to be paranoid.

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Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

Congratulations on becoming the first anti-Muslim Muslim on GS…

This term was coined by FOX to associate Islam with Fascism to malign the efforts of the Muhjahideen around the world, wherever they are, whatever their cause and whatever their means of resistance…

I have always touted the power of propaganda and suggestion on simple minds to be swayed into believing a popular opinion…

You just proved me correct…

So, according to Robert Spencer, the scholars of Islam are the leaders of Islamofascism, no matter what they teach, even if it’s Sufism…The Masajid are the centers of control for Islamofascists, no matter what the doctrine…He proposes to eliminate both in the western countries as threats…

That in turn makes you an Islamophobe…A Muslim Islamophobe…LOL

Looking at your post only one word springs to mind…You remind me of our very own Jewish version of the Judenrat…lol

You are the Useful Muslim…

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

^^ O bhai kheriyat tu hai. Ye kiya kiya meri post ke saath.

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

I think he just got to it before your edit ;)

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Re: "17 Terror Arrests in Toronto"

I have more typos than that....btw, it wasn't islamofasicsm before you start jumping up and down. It was a typo..

I was refering to any movement that represents radical authoritarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, totalitarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism...not related to religion.

BRIDAL PICS.
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I’ve had to cut short my reply…too busy at work…though there is much fodder in your reply for really easy answers.

But your final paragraph sums it up…it is only proper to be paranoid.
And I’d rather be paranoid enough to detain, question, arrest and try potentially innocent people (who in the end will definitely be vindicated) than to allow suspicious activity that may lead to hundreds if not thousands of lives being lost.

And maybe I’m jumping on this because I do take an attack on my community more seriously than any other attack

Consider me paranoid.

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Re: “17 Terror Arrests in Toronto”

I agree to your post…But a Muslim using the word ‘Islamofascist’ just jolted me in so many ways…

Whoever coined that word in FOX, must have been one sorry ignorant person…Fascism thrives on nationalism and nationalistic jingoism while Islam opposes it…

I know you are a Muslim…And you using that word pissed the heck outta me…Sorry if my post offended you in any way…

But look in this thread and see how many Judenrat and Useful Muslims you’d find in this thread…They think if they aid, side and support enemies of Islam, they would be spared from prejudice…

Some of them curse the day Islam came into the limelight due to something…They were happy being bugs in the rugs…But now, their mediocrity is threatened…

They don’t realize it was threatened the day Israel came into being…Yeah yeah, blame it all on the Jews, it’s a great conspiracy and I am an ignorant person who is blindly misled…

**Sûrat Al-‘Ankabût

  1. Alif-Lâm-Mîm.
    [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur’ân, and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings.]

  2. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: “We believe,” and will not be tested.

  3. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allâh will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test).

  4. Or think those who do evil deeds that they can outstrip Us (i.e. escape Our punishment)? Evil is that which they judge!

  5. Whoever hopes for the Meeting[2] with Allâh, then Allâh’s Term is surely coming and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

  6. And whosoever strives, he strives only for himself. Verily, Allâh stands not in need of any of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn, and all that exists).
    **

The tests have begun…Let us hope we pass them as true Muslims…

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No problem Lajawab.

Do you know the reason of current paranoia? Muslims have lost trust in each other and the west does not make an effort to understand it. They think Islam and its core is at fault, which is wrong and at the same time they do not realize their mistakes.

I apologize for going a little bit off topic but....

When Hadita happened, U.S as usual tried to cover up the mass murder, claiming that they were intially blowing up by IED. Investigation are going on and republicans are running around like its the end of the world. Meanwhile the streets of Arab capitals, recently ablaze over the Danish Mohammed cartoon controversy, are quiet. The reason for this simple: For Iraqis, American atrocities are old news, dating back to the invasion in March 2003 and a full decade earlier. They need no prove that a lie has been told and more casualties are yet to come.

Also, we don't see any war protest in the streets of United States. The reason of it simple: how many war critics we see on TV? How many of them are giving free time and light? None....

We are living in paranoia and my religion and identity is the only thing I trust now.