trying to revive a dead cause by stroking religious and victimisation passions.
The Kashmir movement has been alive since 1931, and will live on till we are able to decide on our future with dignity.
I'm sure the mods will be cleaning up the rest of your childish post shortly.
Janab - is not concerned with POK, Janab is not concerned with Jammu, Janab is not concerned with Chinese occupied Kashmir (gifted by Pakistan), Janab is not concerned with Ladakh, Janab is not concerned with the hundreds of thousands of Hindu pandits forced out of their homes..........
Janab is no kashmiri, Janab is no female, Janab is just a hate filled person trying to revive a dead cause by stroking religious and victimisation passions.
Janab you have left India & are staying in San Fransisco or where ever - leave the people of Kashmir alone, people have moved on. Your hate filled articles shows you are living in a 'time warp' of the past.
Idiotic post.
As I already pointed out, Srinagar district (where 25% of Kashmir lives) had 11% turnout in the 2002 election. 20% turnout in the 2004 election was regarded as an unprecedented success for the Indian authorities. Even in the districts you keep bringing up, most eligible voters stay home.
In any case, I've shown how silly it is to inject all this significance into 40% voter turnout when there are multiple polls specifically asking about independence...with 80-90% of the population coming out in favor. Go ahead...keep your head in the sand...it doesn't change reality.
Same applies to you son/daughter. When was plebiscite done to cover the whole Kashmir region. The polls that you show are all opinion polls with a sample size much much smaller than the actual population eligible to vote. Any opinion polls can be twisted to assure one particular result. For example sample all the people in the Hurriyat strongholds then you can a very drastic effect. Sample those in Jammu and you have the other result.
So u believe u want only kashmir district to be independent. You may get it if you stop violence and come to the negotiating table. Atleast a full autonomy is possible under Indian constitution. But to negotiate with terrorist would be out of question. Thats not how world deals with terrorist.
When was plebiscite done to cover the whole Kashmir region.
The people of Kashmir have been demanding the right to hold that very plebiscite for the past six decades.
Barring that, whatever information we do have available to us shows that most of the population supports independence. The whole reason New Delhi so blatantly and openly rigged the 1987 elections (thereby precipitating the armed uprising) was because a coalition of pro-independence parties was poised to sweep the election.
Atleast a full autonomy is possible under Indian constitution.
We started out with "full autonomy"...it barely lasted 5 years before New Delhi swept in and abolished it. Why would we ever fall for that trick again?
But to negotiate with terrorist would be out of question. Thats not how world deals with terrorist.
While there are, no doubt, a number of foreign terrorist organizations operating in Kashmir who must be punished/expelled...I sincerely doubt that you're making any distinction between them and the legitimate, native-Kashmiri separatist organizations in the APHC, etc.
That said, I don't really see much of a point in giving the Indian army the opportunity to bleed Kashmir dry through the continuation of an armed separatist movement...even though they do seem to have worked in other countries (Kosovo, Eritrea, East Timor, etc)...and lets not forget the Indian-backed insurgency that successfully split Pakistan back in 71.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
I still stand by my comments: Janab is living in a 'time warp' of the past.
The Plebsite was only to join India or Pakistan (not for Independence).
Events in the past had made this inoperative, even the UN considers this matter dead. The future is for India & Pakistan to bury their differences and move on.
Establish trade, commerce, open borders, single SAARC currency etc. Freeze the Kashmir issue or accept the part we have as borders.
The alternative is too horrible to contemplate - the complete balkanisation of Pakistan & India. Mutual distruction, by aiding & abetting independence movements in each others countries.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
My point is that Indians can raise voice for liberation of Tibet from China, and Tamil regions from Sri Lanka but they dont say a thing for poor Kashmiris fighting opression for 60 years. How justified is that?
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Hello riaz_shahid,
India is not supporting separation of Tamils from Srilanka. In Tibet, the objection is to how the people of Tibet are treated.
In Kashmir, India sees the challenge to be of defending an integral part of the country from enemies across the border. The enemy has adopted a variety of non-open-war techniques such as terrorism, using religion as a basis to inflame communal rift etc.
Therefore it is not a correct comparison
Regards
Pundit Vikram
The future is for India & Pakistan to bury their differences and move on.
And as long as ignorant people continue to ignore the unalienable right of the Kashmiri people to decide on their future, there will be no stability in the region.
India is not supporting separation of Tamils from Srilanka.
Its well known fact that India sponsored Tamil terrorism in Sri Lanka for years, and destroyed that country through civil war. They only cut off aid when the Tamil Tigers started to bite the hand that fed them too.
In Tibet, the objection is to how the people of Tibet are treated.
The Kashmiris haven't been treated significantly better than the Tibetans have.
The Indians have opted for a more gradual demographic change, while the Chinese have a much smaller military presence...its kind of a toss-up.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Janab - 1. The Chinese way is to have more Hans into Tibet than the Tibetians, today the Tibetians are a minority in Tibet.
India has not allowed that - give some credit where its due.
Do you really think Pakistan will allow Kashmiri's to wrest the 'azad' Kashmir & northern territories and allow Kashmir to be an independent country.
This is why the unity of India is vital - for the future of our children & their children.
Janab - 1. The Chinese way is to have more Hans into Tibet than the Tibetians, today the Tibetians are a minority in Tibet.
India has not allowed that - give some credit where its due.
The Muslim population share in Jammu & Kashmir has been falling since India took over. In 1951, Muslims made up more than 70% of the state's population...by 1981, the census said we were just 63%...today, we're 66%. While the 1981 cenus was probably intentionally tampered with to drastically reduce our population, its impossible to deny that there is some sort of a demographic shift going on. The shift is even more dramatic in Jammu, where in 1971, Muslims were 34% of the population...today, they're just 27%.
Like I said, its not as rapid and dramatic as what the Chinese have done in Tibet, but its still happening.
Pakistan has invested so much money, time and effort, so much so that till the early 1960's it's economy was one of the fastest growing, and could have become an Asian Tiger, like Korea, Malaysia, Singapore etc.
Most economic analysts think Bhutto's misguided nationalization policies in the 70's destroyed Pakistan's economy...not Kashmir.
Do you really think Pakistan will allow Kashmiri's to wrest the 'azad' Kashmir & northern territories and allow Kashmir to be an independent country.
This isn't about "Azad Kashmir" or the Northern Areas...or Jammu or Ladakh for that matter. If they're happy with their current situation, then more power to them.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
What a waste of time. Pakistan has suffered enough fighting others' wars - whether it be Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda or Kashmir.
I don't see any justification in spending one more dime or life. The so called 'leaders' of Kashmir have played the two countries like a hoolahoop. First, they have no unity or consensus amongst themsleves. Second they expect to be made kings of their domains while depending on this side or that for fodder.
Enough
The people of Kashmir have been demanding the right to hold that very plebiscite for the past six decades.
Barring that, whatever information we do have available to us shows that most of the population supports independence. The whole reason New Delhi so blatantly and openly rigged the 1987 elections (thereby precipitating the armed uprising) was because a coalition of pro-independence parties was poised to sweep the election.
There are issues that need to be addressed before the plebiscite is ordered.
This was because Sheikh Abdullah was conspiring in the back with Pakistanies and Chinese.
JKLF was one organization with a lot of internal support. But they were terrorist no less. Firstly Kashmiries have to forgo violence before any meaningful solution is achieved.
As I have told you earlier, its not in Indian armies interest to keep this conflict alive. You know very well who benefit from all this. Its the army across the border. Coming to that, do u think that Pakistanis would ever allow for a free Kashmir. When Sheikh Abdullah was jailed in India his compatriots were jailed in Pakistans Azad kashmir as well because they were supporting an independent kashmir devoid of interference from Islamabad. All these intrusions starting from the Pathan attack to the Kargil conflict are stage managed by Pakistani army. Why would anybody believe what they say and believe they would keep off once Kashmir become Independent.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
vinesh, why is there no similar violent struggle in Azad Kashmir? Please dont say India doesnt support movements in other countries, from India's support to Bangalies, Tamils and Tibet (even if it has done a volte-face about it since then) there is a litany of freedom struggles that India has leant moral and material support to.
vinesh, why is there no similar violent struggle in Azad Kashmir?
The simplest answer is that India does not support separatist movements in Indian Kashmir.
India does not support independence movement violently. They have stopped supporting Tamil movements as soon as LTTE turned a completely militant outfit. Tibetan movement was never militatant.
Only movement India wholeheartedly got involved was in Bengal. But I doubt India would have anything to do with mukti bahini till the internal problem started there and thousands ( or millions) started pouring into India.
This was because Sheikh Abdullah was conspiring in the back with Pakistanies and Chinese.
Which is why they didn't even have enough evidence to try him in court or anything.
JKLF was one organization with a lot of internal support. But they were terrorist no less. Firstly Kashmiries have to forgo violence before any meaningful solution is achieved.
The Kashmir-based faction of the JKLF renounced violence 15 years ago. The US State Department now meets with Yasin Malik.
As I have told you earlier, its not in Indian armies interest to keep this conflict alive.
Of course...in India's ideal scenario, all of Kashmir would have been happy to join. Unfortunately for India, that has never been the case.
You seem to want to blame Pakistan for everything, without recognizing just how much of a mess India has created too.
They have stopped supporting Tamil movements as soon as LTTE turned a completely militant outfit.
India supported the Tamil Tigers as long as they kept their terrorism limited to Sri Lanka. The only reason India cut them off was because they started attacking India too.
Which is why they didn't even have enough evidence to try him in court or anything.
He still had lot of support among Kashmiris. Hence to try him for treason would be playing into hands of separatist movement. Thats what they require, a martyr.
Exactly, thats why they fell out with Pakistan, because they renounced violence.
You seem to want to blame Pakistan for everything, without recognizing just how much of a mess India has created too.
No I am not blaming Pakistan for everything. India did manage it badly. What I am saying is that the problem is compounded by Pakistans involvement. The problem of kashmir is not between Indian govt and kashmiri people, it always involves Pakistan. No settlement between India and Kashmiri people are possible without taking Pakistan into it. In the ideal scenario Pakistan would have annexed the whole part of jammu and Kashmir to their Islamic republic. You could have forgotten about ur autonomy or freedom and would have been living happily under a military regime. Just look at history and tell me Pakistan is ideally wanting a free kashmir.
Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges
Just the Kashmir valley??? What is it to be called - Janabistan!!
What about all the other independence movements in both India & Pakistan!? Will they too be encouraged to destablise Pakistan / India and create their own little countries????
There is no substance in Janab's misguided patriotism - the above plan for "Janabistan" will solve nothing, just more anguish for all involved.
Time is the best healer
But throwing him in jail for twenty years without a trial, installing a rubber stamp government under the wildly unpopular Bakshi Ghulam Muhammad, and having them abolish Kashmir’s autonomous status…that was the smart way to keep the separatists in check?
The JKLF fell out with Pakistan well before they renounced violence because they supported independence over joining Pakistan. In any case, your earlier statement about their being a terrorist organization is false anyways.
No response to the demographic changes your government is surreptitiously carrying out in J&K? I thought so.
And since when are you so concerned about the independence of Jammu and Ladakh? If they’re happy with the status quo, then so be it…there’s no reason why the Treaty of Amritsar should yoke our future to their’s for all eternity.
Your ignorance is astounding.
The six districts of the Kashmir Valley (and arguably Doda district of Jammu) are the only area that has historically referred to as “Kashmir” and the only area inhabited by actual Kashmiri people. Again, the Treaty of Amritsar didn’t magically transform the Jatts and Dogras of Jammu into Kashmiris as you Indians seem to believe. Why it wouldn’t just be called Kashmir as it has been for thousands of years is beyond me…your rather stupid joke doesn’t make much sense.
Pakistan has no reason not to accept this, as by now, the government has come to terms with the fact that there’s no way Kashmir will ever be an integral part of their country. Most Kashmiri Muslims already support this (the 1987 elections, and multiple subsequent polls are evidence)…as for the Hindus, they would be more than welcome to return to an independent, secular Kashmir, but at just 4% of the total population, they don’t have enough clout to democratically outweigh the nearly unanimous will of the Muslim majority. As for India…decolonization is never easy for imperialist states…but its a reality they all eventually have to come to terms with.
Kashmir’s situation is different…no other state was forced to merge into India or Pakistan so clearly against the will of most of its population. In any case, I would hope that the democratic credentials that you people are always bragging about would be strong enough to prevent the states that have actually benefited from being a part of the Indian union from wanting out. I think these arguments against the independence of Kashmir (the spontaneous balkanization of India, the massive anti-Muslim holocaust in India that would follow, etc) are mostly ridiculous and unfounded.
20 years wasnt the time he was in Jail. Few years after 1953 he was released when he went to Pakistan to meet Ayub Khan and Bhutto.
No Pakistanies wanted to make Kashmir a muslim struggle rather than an independent movement. They were supporting all the muslim outfits like Al fatah and likes.
Pakistan always has kashmir in her radar. How can you explain the incursion of Kargil. Dont say it was kashmiris on top of the mountains.
Ha ha, that would leave only UP and Bihar with India..
:). Politics in India is less mature. People still have caste and regional affiliation.When such things exist it is not reasonable to allow for a state to be separate giving the small percentage of disgruntled people in other states to have a voice of their own and exploiting some sentiments to get a more popular vote. Kashmir struggle itself started with a small group. Sikh group wasnt satisfied either and had a very violent struggle but now they have renounced the violence and are in the Indian union, just like many other states.
20 years wasnt the time he was in Jail. Few years after 1953 he was released when he went to Pakistan to meet Ayub Khan and Bhutto.
He was in jail from 1953-64
Then again from 1965-68
Then he was expelled from the state from 1971-73
He was in and out of jail/exile for the better part of two decades.
Pakistan always has kashmir in her radar. How can you explain the incursion of Kargil. Dont say it was kashmiris on top of the mountains.
Kargil happened a decade ago, and that too at a time when India-Pakistan relations were particularly tense. With 9-11, the War on Terror, and the subsequent fall-out in Pakistan, I think the government and the people have bigger issues on their minds.
An independent Kashmir would bring an end to pissing contest that has plagued India & Pakistan for the past 60 years.
In any case, if I had to guess, I'd say that any independent Kashmiri state would be created through the intervention of the UN (ala Kosovo, East Timor, etc)...in which case I doubt that Pakistan would so overtly flaunt the will of the world community and take over (that seems to be more like India's style).
Ha ha,, that would leave only UP and Bihar with India..
If that's honestly the case (only 25% of the population actually wants to stay in India), then that's a pretty pathetic country, and maybe balkanization wouldn't be the worst thing.
Fortunately for India, I think you're grossly exaggerating. If that were the case, you'd see the same level of infighting and civil war in India that you do in post-colonial Africa. In reality, the mainland Indian states (everything but J&K and the eastern hill states) have benefited from their involvement in the Indian union...and I sincerely doubt that a majority in any state wants independence.
Kashmir struggle itself started with a small group.
That's really not true. The demand to end foreign rule in Kashmir has been a very popular one since 1931.
Which is why in 1956, you own freedom-figher (and advocate of Kashmiri self-determination) Jayaprakash Narayan said, "From all the information that I have, 95 per cent of Kashmiri Muslims do not wish to be, or remain, Indian citizens. I doubt, therefore, the wisdom of trying to ‘keep’ people by force where they do not wish to stay." Incidentally, he also mocked the idea that all of India would suddenly fall apart if we were given our independence.
It's also why, in March of 1990, a massive pro-independence protest in Srinagar was able to draw over 1 million people from all over Kashmir (or over 25% of the entire population of Kashmir...and about 85% of the adult male population).
This has always been a popular movement.