16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

:rotfl:
Again with the extremist accusations…run out of other outlandish claims I see?

Honestly…your statements are truly pathetic. I have never defended the butchering of any civilians, and have emphasized the importance of the return of the Pandits with virtually every post…and you have the audacity to accuse me of being an extremist. Meanwhile, you & anjjan & stircrasy and all your cold blooded Indian compatriots have never, and will never condemn the deaths of tens of thousands of Kashmiri civilians at the hands of your army…rather you will cook up a thousand excuses as to why its OK for your soldiers to kill & rape our people with impunity. You people don’t have a shred of sympathy for the plight of non-Hindu Kashmiris…but thats to be expected from shameless communalists like yourself. But then you show nothing but false pity and crocodile tears for the Pandits…when in reality you have no interest in rehabilitating them…you people would keep them in shanty towns and tent cities for the next century if you had to, just so you can justify your morally bankrupt atrocities against Kashmiri Muslims…they’re nothing but museum pieces for you people you people to exploit in your propaganda war. It’s really just so pathetic.

30,000 Muslim refugees sitting in Pakistan, another 100,000 displaced within India…but you of course don’t care about any of that.

Like I said, people like you are completely blind to the suffering of Kashmiri Muslims. But communalists like malhot will never accuse you of extremism…because apathy towards the plight of non-Hindu Kashmiris is perfectly acceptable to Indians.

And yet in 2005, Doctors Without Borders found that Kashmir had the highest rates of sexual violence against women of any conflict ridden region in the world today…with rates several times higher than in places like Sierra Leone, Chechnya, and Sri Lanka.

Who said the Indian government did a brilliant job of planning the attack? These are the same people who were caught in their web of lies when they took DNA samples from various women and submitted them as samples taken from the innocent men who were butchered as the alleged “militants” responsible for the massacre. Who knows…maybe it wasn’t planned…maybe a bunch of Hindu extremist soldiers or countermilitants just got tired of butchering Muslims and decided to turn on the Sikhs (wouldn’t be the first time in Indian history that’s happened)…and the government just decided to spin the events in their favor.

What about your logic? The attackers wore Indian army uniforms, drank liquor, shouted Hindu and pro-India slogans, addressed each other by military ranks, attacked a group that the militants/jihadis had never targeted before, at the worst possible time when it would attract the most bad press imaginable, in an attack that no militant group ever claimed responsibility for (which seldom happens), and the Indian army took it upon itself to try and cover up the events…and yet you still want to stick your head in the sand and accuse the militants.

Clinton never apologized for anything himself…his publishers simply issued a statement and removed the line from future editions of his book. But I guess your “Hindu media” just twisted the truth when it was reporting to you.

Funny how you have no comment on how even the pro-India Kashmiri politicians have joined Amnesty International and everyone with an iota of common sense in openly acknowledging that the Indian army was responsible.

This is a lie, plain and simple…just as I have come to expect from you Indians.

1996 Figures
“Leaders of the Hurriyat Conference put the [death] toll nearer 40,000”
LA Times - September 25, 1995

“Deaths alone are estimated at from 20,000 to 40,000 and more than 100,000 Muslims have been forced from their homes”
Washington Times - May 28, 1996

“The militants and some human rights groups say that more than 30,000 have died”
Dallas Morning News - January 23, 1996

**2005 Figures
**“Indian Kashmiri Muslims have lost anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 people in the 16-year insurgency”
International Herald Tribune - October 14, 2005

“More than 60,000 people have been killed since 1989 in the fighting in Kashmir, which is divided between India and Pakistan.”
CBS News - November 13, 2005

“At least 66,000 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the conflict since 1989.”
USA Today - June 13, 2005

Try not to lie so blatantly in the future.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

/\/\a marvelous reply..... I wonder how these people and these news papers calculated these figures. When the same newspapers print something against them....they declare them anti-Islamic without any proper thought. Clinton became their love baby when something against India was written on his behalf and the Islamic media totally ignored the correction....because it cannot swallow anything against it.

Pak media was a real fun when it continuosly parroted 70000 for ten years.

And I still cannot find a reply in her posts.....what the peace-loving and good Muslims of Kashmir were doing when a 36 hrs notice was served to Hindus. As now she says with an open heart that all Muslims want Hindus to come back.

I am not interested in finding out how many years they tortured Hindus to make them understand their way out of Kashmir.

Pak army dedicatedly compelled 1 million people to leave East Pakistan in 2 to 4 months.....I think we must learn from them how to deal with minorities and follow their ethics.

They are masters in manipulating the democratic press releases. In fact I am enjoying her replies…..let her tell us a single place where Muslims are satisfied and have no problems with other communities or among themselves.

Kashmir is not an exception.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Are you capable of anything beyond arguing in circles? Clearly not.

You mean the way you have declared every major human rights organization, NGO, and newspaper in the world anti-India/anti-Hindu because of their comments on Kashmir?

Then prove it. The separatists and the NGOs definitely weren't making any such statements as you previously claimed.

Otherwise I have already amply demonstrated the fact that you're lying.

Prove it...find an impartial source (no RSS, BJP, Hinduunity, etc) that mentions this "36 hour notice." Many of our family friends are Pandits...and of them, several were living in Srinagar in 1989-90, and yet I've never heard any of them talk about this 36 hour nonsense that you keep parroting.

They were threatened by the militants (which obviously was reprehensible), Governor Jagmohan did his best to build up mass hysteria among them (a fact that even a BJP-supporting Indian puppet like Farooq Abdullah has admitted), and so they fled. I won't even bother mentioning the Kashmiri Muslim refugees, as you're obviously far to bigoted to care about them.

What can I say...we aren't as black hearted a people as you Indians seem to be. Your people's apathy towards (or in your case, active support for) the mass murder of Muslims by your army hasn't changed the way we think about the Pandits. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Kashmiri Muslim who supports what was done to the Pandits...even the hardlines in the Hurriyat conference believe that the Pandits should be rehabilitated in Kashmir.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Jihadis have created these situation - not a beep out of Janab against them.

The Indian soldiers are fighting a war with a cowardly enemy - God bless them and they will win - whether you like it or not..

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

And your government created the jihadis by fixing every election in Kashmir for 40 years, and denying the people their basic democratic rights.

I addressed this baseless allegation just two days ago...

You pray for the success of rapists and mass murders...and then you accuse others of extremism? You're nothing but a Hindu communalist...plain and simple.

Only if the God you worship is heartless and cruel...my God is far too merciful to allow such a thing.
nasrun minallahi wa fathun qareeb!

Timepass
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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Kashmir needs the referendum they were promised by the UN. Thats the only way forward.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Unre4l - Has anyone considered a referendum in Pakistan - Balochistan, Wana, Pushtoon areas, "Azad" kashmir, Kohat etc.

Just like the 2 nation theory - also a referendum should be conducted to see if the Shias want to live with the majority sunni in Pakistan. If not lets provide the Shias a seperate living area. The minority Ahmediyas, christians & Hindus could then choose where they want to live.

Even Jinnah would have approved of this. May God bless him for the religious & commmunal forces he has unleashed.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

All of the Pushtoon areas were already given a plebiscite in 1947...over 99% of the population voted in favor of joining Pakistan. A tribal jirga in convened in Balochistan on the eve of Partition decided the same.

As for Azad Kashmir, Pakistan has historically been calling for a plebiscite on both sides of the LoC...it's India that refuses. Considering the fact that those areas of the state actually rebelled in favor of joining Pakistan during the 47-48 War, I don't think Pakistan really has anything to worry about in AJK. In any case, back in 1947, the legislative assembly of J&K unanimously passed a resolution urging the Maharaja to sign over the state to Pakistan...so if anyone is in violation of the will of the people, its India.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Is Kashmir fighting for freedom? Or is it a mere Islamic mentality which is not satisfied as usual anywhere in the world, in Islamic or in non-Islamic States?

We do not find any non-Muslim name in this freedom struggle. (One exception was shown very prominently by Janab as if all Hindus are willing to get freedom in Kashmir.

They say that some thousand Muslims were butchered by Hindu army in 1947-48…..I do not understand why Kashmiri locals misled Pak soldiers who could penetrate into in the valley in 1947-48 and in1965 war?

Their mercy style is unique….Hindus were targeted, were compelled to migrate and now janab-e-ali asks us for the proof. On the other hand we do not find any Muslim mass migration, or illegal birth rate as a result of Indian forces’ brutal activities.

I have always admired the Islamic propaganda machinery. In fact the State Govts cannot fall to their cheapness and answer each and every confusion created by them…..and as a result this non-reply attitude of the States they utilize as a matter of propaganda taken for granted that they are right.

Clinton episode is a marvelous example. janab-e-ali says why Clinton did not apologize? What for? Because something was misquoted on his behalf by someone else…..And the Islamic media totally ignored the fact that it was a printing mistake and still parroting one and the same thing on behalf of Clinton.

I again wonder if not a single civilian (Muslim) was killed by the militants? Where they have picked up this 70000 figure? May be the J&K administration has leaked them these figures. Off course 98% administration in J&K is controlled by Muslims (This fact is never discussed in Islamic media that Kashmir administration is controlled by Muslims and majority of police personals from Muslim community.)
And even if the figures are less than 7000….killings has no justification.

Elections were rigged in Kashmir. Absolutely correct! Elections were rigged always anywhere in India till 1990…..And after TN Shashan picked up the job a lot has been improved.

Last elections in J&K were totally neat and clean….42% voting took place even after threats by their dear militants. A hung parliament was a result of free and fair elections.
Islamic media did not notice or did not like to notice that international media was present in full strength when last elections took place in J&K.

So let janab-e-ali me a single place in world where Muslims have no problems apart from Kashmir. And the fact is that the world community is now aware of their ‘play the victim’ game.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Exercise some common sense. Kashmir is 95% Muslim...obviously any popular political movement is going to be Muslim dominated.

I'm sure a rabid bigot like yourself would be shocked to know that many of the biggest proponents of Kashmir's accession to Pakistan back in 1947 were from the Pandit community.

"...in the remaining Dogra area, 237,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated, unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border, by all the forces of the Dogra State headed by the Maharaja in person and aided by Hindus and Sikhs."
The Times of London, October 11, 1947

"The mad orgy of Dogra violence against unarmed Muslims should put any self-respecting human being to shame. I saw armed bands of ruffians and soldiers shooting down and hacking to pieces helpless Muslim refugees heading towards Pakistan… I saw en route State officials freely distributing arms and ammunition among the Dogras… From the hotel room where I was detained in Jammu, I counted as many as twenty-six villages burning one night and all through the night rattling fire of automatic weapons could be heard from the surrounding refugee camps."
Kashmir Times, October 28, 1947

And despite the genocide in Hindu-dominated Jammu, not even your RSS buddies can claim that there was any massacre of Hindus in Muslim dominated Kashmir.

In 1947-48, the people of Mirpur, Muzaffarabad, Poonch, and Gilgit (today AJK and the Northern Areas) all rebelled against the Maharaja in favor of Pakistan.

I didn't ask you for proof that the Hindus had to migrate...no one denied that. I asked you for proof that they were all expelled in 36 hours. Which, being a complete lie, you'll never be able to prove.

I've already addressed these issues.

You really have no shame lying through your teeth like that.

In the 1980's, in a state where 67% of the population is Muslim, nearly 70% of the bureaucracy was made up of Hindus and Sikhs. As for the police, its well known that the "counterinsurgency" forces are neither Kashmiri nor Muslim.

Ladies, look at your toes..
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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

/\/\/\A querry that is always going blank....

So let janab-e-ali tell me a single place in world where Muslims have no problems with other commuinties or with themselves in Islamic or non-Islamic States apart from Kashmir.

The fact is that we should have guts to address the real issue instead of hanging over bunch of terrorists.

And what is that real issue?

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Iraq(Sunni/Shia): muslims killing each other, destroying each others mosques.
Pakistan(Sunni/Shia/Ahmedi/Christian/Hindu): Muslims killing each other, destroying each others mosques, churches, temples..
Iraq - Iran war : Sunni & Shia muslims killed each other.
Kurds(muslims): killed by Iraq, also being killed by Turkey.
Afganistan (muslims): killing & being killed by other muslim countries like Pakistan.
Indian Kashmir: Muslims Extremists killing moderate muslims, hindus, sikhs.......
Janab - I pity you. (dhobhi ka kutta, na ghar ka na ghat ka).

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Let's see...

Senegal (94% Muslim)
Mali (90% Muslim)
Niger (90% Muslim)
Albania (70% Muslim)
Sierra Leone (60% Muslim)
Burkina Faso (60% Muslim)
The list goes on...and there are several more with Muslim minorities who live without any significant problems.

Can you name a single Hindu dominated country that respects the rights of religious minorities? I don't think so...one was (at least until the Maoist revolution) a Hindu theocratic monarchy, and the other is known for violence against Muslims, Sikhs, and Christians.

Do you have any pets?
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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Please do add India to the top of the list. Burning Christian Missionaries and thier Children, killing of Sikhs, Setting on fire of untouchables by government officials for such crimes as "being late", and of course the whole scale slaughter of Muslims everywhere...

~~~Missing Someone~~~
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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Bravo....and in all these countries minorities aree free to follow and propagate their religion!

Re, India....may be Muslims are remaining behind in Kashmir, but all over India the Kashmiri Muslim are flourishing well, making money by any means.

And India is a country where population ratio of minorities is increasing......sorry, this time I will not ask for the logic.

What is the one thing you'd change in your life right now?
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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Hello everyone!

I have a few points to make about this discussion here.

@Unreal - You are correct in saying that Nehru agreed to conduct a plebiscite in Kashmir based on a non-binding resolution by the United Nations. But there was a preceding binding United Nations resolution that called for complete withdrawal of troops by Pakistan which the government of Pakistan has so far refused to do. Therefore India was unable to conduct the said plebiscite. Since then such a long time has passed and the demographics have been altered significantly and therefore the offer is no longer valid.

@others - Even though the Godhra incident has blemished India's record, in general it is well known that minority religions are better off in India than in almost all other countries in the region.

@ question about a single Hindu dominated country - I do not think there is any Hindu dominated country. Even India is not Hindu dominated due to the secular principles enshrined in our constitution.

Regards
Pundit Vikram

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

haha well said!!

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Yes, they are. A right that they don't have in many Indian states.

16,000 of them are rotting in Indian jails on cooked up charges...not that you care. You'll just continue to make up "facts" and try to pass them off as gospel truth.

India rejected over a dozen UN proposals on the demilitarization of Kashmir and the implementation of the plebiscite. The fact of the matter was that India never had any intention to hold a plebiscite, as it became very clear, very early on that the outcome of any attempt to give the Kashmiris the ability to exercise their basic democratic rights wouldn't be favorable to India's imperialistic goals in the region.

You act as though Godhra was a rare, isolated incident of religious intolerance.

What about the destruction of Babri Masjid, and the ensuing celebratory massacre of Muslims across India? Or the slaying of over 1,000 Muslims during Bhagalpur riots of 1989. Or the massacre of over 3,000 Sikhs in Delhi back in 1984? Or the regular violence against Christians? The list goes on and on.

Or we can talk about discriminatory laws...like the ones albeit banning missionary work to appease your Hindu fundamentalist parties. Or the counter-terrorism laws, which are almost exclusively used to round up Muslims without any evidence or charges, stripping them of all their constitutional rights, so they can be tortured in your draconian prisons.

No one is claiming that the entire Muslim world is a wonderfully hospitable place for minorities...and I think most Muslims freely admit that. Indian Hindus, on the other hand, are laughably deluded...having convinced themselves that their country is some sort of a Gandhian utopia, rather than recognizing miserable state of minority rights there.

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Its a news that minorities are free to flollow and propagate their religion in Islamic states.

On the contrary the fact is that wherever Muslims are in majority the minority section start finding some other residnces. It is very common even in India.

New topics are raised.....What was the need to build up mosques at entire centre of Hindu religious places? Day and night they tell us that Islam does not allow it and on the other hand defend actions of their own religious cruelty.

Riots.....pick up the entire history of riots in India and tell me who made the first start? Can minorities riot against Muslims in Islamic states?

Massacre of Sikhs....tell me the date when did Muslims felt brotherhood with Sikhs after killing many of their teachers?

RSS/ BJP.....What is wrong if RSS/BJP behave the same way as Muslims do with other communities.

So a cruel State like India has kept 16000 innocents in jail after 18 years of disturbances in Kashmir......why does not janab-e-ali ask all those Kashmiri Muslims who are making money by all means with full freedom in a cruel country like India..to leave it as a protest.

Ps, I have really liked her sentence that minorites are flourishing, enjoying full freedom in Muslim areas.........repeat a lie so often that you yourslef start beleiving in that. Bravo!

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Re: 16,000 Kashmiris Languishing in Indian Jails on Dubious Charges

Of course it would be news to you...not only do you hate Muslims, but you also come from a country where its perfectly acceptable for the government to ban minorities from freely propagating their religion.

Never mind the fact that there are 3 or 4 other temples in Ayodhya all claiming to be built on the site of Ram's birthplace...you probably believe that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to have a masjid anywhere in the city. Even if the Mughals did tear down a temple to build the mosque...only in your demented mind does that constitute justification for butchering thousands of civilians 450 years later.

Let's see...
Gujarat was a pre-planned massacre, with the unfortunate accident at Godhra used as a convenient excuse to incite the masses.

Babri Masjid was a celebratory massacre after Hindus tore down a mosque.

Bhagalpur began when armed Kar Sevaks tried to incite Muslims by taking a processing to Ayodhya (for the purpose of tearing down Babri Masjid and building a temple) through a Muslim neighborhood.

And that justifies the 1984 massacre? There really is something wrong with you.

Only in your mind do Kashmiris live with "full freedom"

And why the hell should they have to leave Kashmir "in protest" or for any other reason...it's their homeland, not yours.