15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

[d-tox.ed]

I did realise for the off topic question and thanks Mode............Ya it sounds logical. I guess with the same logic Muslims cannot accept anyone calling themselves Muslim when the corner stone of Islam is Khatm e Nabowat. There are too few details available here of those 15 individuals for us to have a fruitful discussion. It is obvious that my opinion is biased but there are points here on both sides that are valid. In the absence of a proper system in place with law enforcement that no one can question these actions will always leave more questions then answers.

well...i think some people have at least reach to conclusion that Ahmdies pretending to be Muslims is cause of the issue....

Surely there is not a proper justice system available...Chief Justice sb khudd baahir bethe hue they saal se...anyways...to cut the long story short...15 guys are arrested just for praying at a place which is called Mosque...khuda ki Panaah.

[d-tox.ed]

Well if they say Mirza was i liar then i have no problem with that.

Technically they are not Ahmedis then? Therefore i can see them as acting wisely and accepting the truth.

Ahmedies however believe Mirza is a prophet, thats the problem!

If they don't believe in Mirza then they are not Ahmedi, simple, the name ahmedi is a delibarate invention to mislead decent Muslims and lull them into acepting the Mirzai faith.

Now as for reading the Koran, reading it is one thing, acting on what it tells you is another.

Read my post properly! youve quoted it wrongly, the point i made was that Rasoolallah had been told in a Koranic verse not to attend a munafiq "Masjid". The fact that rasoolallah did not go proves he did approve of the munafiqs, so according to the koran which stated that this Masjid be destroyed (which it was). Now if you guys truly read the Koran you too will see that there is no mercy for munafiqs.

So why then one side you say that you do as we do, yet immediately on close scrutiny you actually deviate from all the correct manners in Islam?

I have not many Issues with Shia's, in fact i believe Shia / Suni unity can be acheived, i even despise the Wahabi's but i have a greater what you might call hatred enemity with Ahmedi's becuase they make a mockery of Islam's most important aspects and hide beneath a cloak of Islamic ideas.

Finally please can any Ahmedi tell me why thier faith came about after 1857's war of Independance? Did the British pay Mirza to keep brave Muslims from overthrowing thier precious and hard fought empire. Technically the Ahmedi's are and have always been on the Kaafir payroll. It's not my place to impose loyalty on you but if Islam wasn't such a nice faith i imagine under the heel of others the Ahmedi cult would have been obliterated.

The day i see an Ahmedi contribute something good for Islam then i will be surprised but name one Ahmedi that did not betray his co-religionists, brothers, countrymen or even king and country.

Now in the light of these facts is it any wonder your "poor" fellow cult followers are massacred. Now i'll admit i've adopted a hardline against Ahmedi's, and ultimately killing or persucuting others is wrong.

However you cannot deny the atrocieties commited by your fellow Ahmedis who secretly hold powerfull and influential positions. Let me tell you as aformer soldier, back in the Army the most relentless trainers i ever knew were Ahmedi. I did not know thy were at first, but they constantly pushed men to extremes as if they wanted them dead. Only when i got my commision did i find out they were Ahmedi/Mirzais.

Hell even parts of my family converted to that faith when they came to Britian, it helped them with employment. Basically the image i have at first hand is that Ahmedi's are arrogant and ignorant rich people. By converting to Mirzai cult they practically sell themselves to western serfdom.

With so many wrongs among them and no good deeds tell me if i'm wrong. Maybe i am but Mirzai's only feed my hatred by thier actions.

Faris I feel for you....that was a very long emotional message. It probably is not possible for me to justify any of your thoughts just by words....maybe you had some bad experiences at least you mentioned one of Army...but trust me...we want our Muslims brothers and sisters to realise that we are not your enemy....

Would you be able to site from Quran about the things you are metioning as I am not aware of such incident...not denying there isnt but would gladly read it.

Hate to say but talk would deviate from topic and Mod will close the issue. Feel free to open a new thread and I will gladly take part Inshallah.

[navid83]

Re: 15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

Pakistanis in the UK continue to complain about bigotry, harassment and discrimination yet turn around and persecute their own minorities.

Hypocrisy much?

[Data]

Re: 15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

^ Atleast we're better off than India, which has larger minorities that are harassed, persecuted, and tortured on a mass scale.

[aam_bandha]

^ Atleast we're better off than India, which has larger minorities that are harassed, persecuted, and tortured on a mass scale.

You had to bring India into the discussion since you have no defence for this persecution by the state ...... inspite of what you say the minorities in India are growing with the general population of India while as in Pakistan the numbers have dwindled because of state prosection.

[Data]

Re: 15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

^ We didnt have much to begin with as far as the percentage is concerned, plus we dont wear a fake secular mask, in the guise of Ram Raj.

[aam_bandha]

^ We didnt have much to begin with as far as the percentage is concerned, plus we dont wear a fake secular mask, in the guise of Ram Raj.

The truth about the minorites in Pakistan is out in the open in this thread ..... you have to read through this thread as to how some people are ready to kill them .... though i must say so far you don't sound like one......

[Data]

Re: 15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

^ How are they different from Bal Thackerey's supporters then?

[aam_bandha]

@Data

^ How are they different from Bal Thackerey's supporters then?

I don't have to defend bal Thackerey ... but his reaction is to the violence from muslim groups and this we can discuss in detail ... have no problems with that. But you tell me .... when was violence initiated by ahmedias or any minorites in Pakistan ???? for them to be targetted like this.

[Data]

@aam_bandha

I don’t have to defend bal Thackerey … but his reaction is to the violence from muslim groups and this we can discuss in detail … have no problems with that. But you tell me … when was violence initiated by ahmedias or any minorites in Pakistan ??? for them to be targetted like this.

You just defended him, and also are you implying that Muslims in India have to be killed as per Thackerey? He even suggested using suicide bombers to kill Muslims and was quite a fan of Hitler!! Fine, you can do whatever you want, but dont come giving us a lecture if you cant even practice what you preach.

[aam_bandha]

@Data

!! Fine, you can do whatever you want, but dont come giving us a lecture if you cant even practice what you preach.

Hitler had a lot of fans .... among them some respectable religious persons also :)

Of course you don't need lectures .... ask the Banglas they will know what you practice and preach !!!!!!

[Data]

Re: 15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

^ Given up so soon, Bengalis were a religious minority?

[aam_bandha]

@Data

^ Given up so soon, Bengalis were a religious minority?

You might not be aware of it … but of the banglas killed a number of them were Hindus … a minority … lack of information !!!

[Data]

Re: 15 Ahmadis arrested for gathering in a building resembling a mosque

^ come on man, you've lost the argument, just go away... the banglo movement had nothing to do with religious persecution dude... i am sure even ppl from the thackerey institute of saffron terrorism are aware of that.

[aam_bandha]

@Data

^ come on man, you've lost the argument, just go away... the banglo movement had nothing to do with religious persecution dude... i am sure even ppl from the thackerey institute of saffron terrorism are aware of that.

You are saying that since, as you claim, it was not religious persecution it was ok to kill so many people !!!!!

Thackery and co would not be able to kill so many .... even in their dreams.

Of all the killings Thackery "could" be held responsible ... directly or indirectly .... the number would not match "one day" of killing in East Pakistan .... or as it was refered to as ... being "sent to Bangladesh"

Guess the mods would be dropping in soon :)

[Med911]

I think you have missed the point as well...

I don't want to get into Ahmadi laws and other stuff, but i must say that if there is a law then one should abide it... if the law says that one should not build anything resemble to a mosque then there should be ome logic behind it.. being a muslim i don't want a church or temple to be designed like or have any resemblance to a mosque.

Ahmadis have model society called rabwa, they live by their customs, no body objects on that, Although i have personal experience of how Ahamdi calls the names of respectable personalities of Islam, but still there is place of worship for them, in Lahore one is on Illama Iqbal road.. and some are in the localities...

No body objects on those places, no body get arrested for performing their religous duties there...

Please be noted that Ahmadi are declared non-muslims in Pakistan and are treated in same way in other Arab states like Saudi and Kuwait. So why they design there place of worship resembling a mosque? do they have any ill-intentions to deceive other muslims??? I am not saying they had one, but question is, they are non-muslims, they are told not to build their place of worship like a mosque then y they do it???

You really do miss the point...

Laws should be obeyed, so long as they are reasonable. When laws are unreasonable and unjust, then people have a right to rebel.
By your logic, if tommorow the Pak govt were to say all Muslims should stop being Muslim, you would gladly oblige.

And the reason they make a building to resemble a mosque is because
a. They say they are Muslim, and refuse to be told otherwise.
b. Because archtecture is not copyrighted by Islam. A mosque can take any shape, be arabesque, moorish, or whatever. You might be interested to know that the early Islamic Archtecture was influenced by Byzantine Christian architecture... And there are even Churches and synagogues that look like Mosques!

So its pretty ridiculous no matter what angle you look at it.

[Med911]

Faris I feel for you....that was a very long emotional message. It probably is not possible for me to justify any of your thoughts just by words....maybe you had some bad experiences at least you mentioned one of Army...but trust me...we want our Muslims brothers and sisters to realise that we are not your enemy....

Would you be able to site from Quran about the things you are metioning as I am not aware of such incident...not denying there isnt but would gladly read it.

Hate to say but talk would deviate from topic and Mod will close the issue. Feel free to open a new thread and I will gladly take part Inshallah.

His Army drill sergeants were to hard on him, made him cry...

Truly, those Mirzais should be killed for making Faris have to work!

[Med911]

You had to bring India into the discussion since you have no defence for this persecution by the state ...... inspite of what you say the minorities in India are growing with the general population of India while as in Pakistan the numbers have dwindled because of state prosection.

While I cant justify the treatment of Ahmadis, its an evil that is inherent in the beliefs of many Muslims.

As for the minorities decreasing in number, that is an Indian myth.

[Med911]

No iam not against non-muslims, they have all the rights to practise their religion, but i do have objections on those who pose themselves as muslims but are not muslims, these 15 ahmadies can just be simple victum of police, as i mentioned in my first post in this topic, but again none of u or ur other peace loving ahmadies saw or red that.

Now the case is, you have all the do hate muslims by the depth of ur heart, anyone who do not believe in the prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is Kafir in your religion... Now question is then y do you want to resemble with muslims????

as for Zero_ONE

Yup iam up for muslims unity, but amadi are not muslims as they believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as their prophet, which is agains the teaching...

As for resting ur case, what other options u had, u didn;t reply any of the questions i raised in this topic, yes u have to take some rest as you soon you may find another reason for whinning.

Non Muslims according to you, not according to them..

Would you start calling yourself a non Muslim if someone else declared you as such!
Whether you agree with their beliefs or not is irrelevant.

[Med911]

Just tell me, is it fair for someone, who are not muslims to build their places of worships resembling mosques?

It is fair, as you have a right to build you mosque they way you see fit and they theirs...

Its ironic how you can pose yourself as someone who is sensitive to the rights of other people and your own, yet you refuse to extend them to others in the same breath. You contradict yourself.
Are you a person who believes others should be given the same respect and rights that you expect for yourself, or are you someone who feels only you and your kind have rights and others are excluded... Make up your mind.