12-year-old girl dies while giving birth

[mercenary2k]

@arshad5

Haha seriously you are a fruitcake. I have never been brainwashed. You know nothing of my childhood. Unlike you I wasn’t transported to the west. My grandad came here over 50 years ago. I grew up in a small town with white folks. I am not even that religious I am a secular muslim. I know jews in real life and had business dealings with them, and all my friends are secular. All my family are professional members. I don’t even know a religious muslim in real life.

So tell me what is the rational way to think of Israel? Your narrow minded pro-zionist mind cannot accept that a person attacking zionists is a secular type.

I think you are just too much caught up in your own propoganda that you actually believe it is true now.

You are the one who stated that I am pro-zionist and I hate Arabs and your length in duration in a western country is not proportional to you seeing something in a different light.

But in any case, this discussion has lost its rational thought as soon as you jumped in.

Good luck convincing anyone with common sense to your demented viewpoints.

Have a nice day

[arshad5]

Re: 12-year-old girl dies while giving birth

What does living in the West have to do with my opinions? I am entitled to hold my opinion about Israel, like many other people do across the world, not just in the ‘East’ but also in the ‘West’. Living in the West does not mean that you start calling a ‘wrong’ a ‘right’. More people marched against the Iraq war in the ‘West’ than the ‘East’. It was an American student Rachel Corries that was crushed under a Israeli tank whilst protesting against the Zionists. If you live in the West do you have to accept Zionism? Does everyone in the West accept Zionism or support Israel? Your rational does not stand up to rational argument. I speak for my convictions, I don’t get paid to do propoganda. I am not a mercenary for hire.

[Noor_is_a_Bore]

Re: 12-year-old girl dies while giving birth

I’d like to point out here that menstruation does NOT equate to physical maturation (puberty), for females. Menses signifies the ability to conceive-- not the ability to carry, give birth, or feed the offspring.

These practices are disgusting. Children cannot fully comprehend any decision like marriage at this age. Even if she had a choice, it wouldn’t be truly her’s to make.

[Noor_is_a_Bore]

@sheyn

***Though I’m not condoning child marriages , this article reeks of western propoganda…

Many women die in labour due to various causes and highlighting her death
in labour" as the basis for citing this is just a ploy to point fingers at Islam and how “barbaric” Muslims are !

Being a 12 yr old and in labour is not the reason of death…once she attains puberty she can concieve and have a healthy outcome of the pregnancy if she is well-cared for by trained personnel. The reasons were probably poor medical care , or even medical negligence but not just being a 12 yr old !

---

An 11 year old is not a woman. It’s a child.

And yes this does have something to do with Islam. It also has something to do with a lack of education, culture, misogyny, and a myriad of other issues.

Being a 12 yr old played a large role in the outcome of her pregnancy. To disregard that is to ignore her psychological state (which can and will cause psychosomatic issues, and other issues with ability to carry to term), her ability to properly care for herself, etc.

[Noor_is_a_Bore]

@arshad5

It is sad what happened to the girl. However we are looking at it from a certain angle. Many people in muslim countries would equally find shocking the fact that young girls in the west have sex before marriage, usually with multiple partners (including one night stand), drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes. We need to respect the cultural differences, rather than imposing our culture on others.

Cultural relativism ends when human rights are being infringed upon-- including that of a child’s right to grow up healthy and her right to make a decision as to how, who, and when she may choose to marry.

[Noor_is_a_Bore]

@mercenary2k

Sorry I disagree…

A dad forcing a 11 year old girl to marry a old man…is different than a girl chooses to have sex or drink…

The difference is choice and consent. In the case of the Yemeni girl, she had no choice and an adult made the decision to marry her off and then another adult got her pregnant at the age of 11 and she died as a consequence of those actions.

Bingo.

[arshad5]

@Noor_is_a_Bore

Cultural relativism ends when human rights are being infringed upon-- including that of a child’s right to grow up healthy and her right to make a decision as to how, who, and when she may choose to marry.

a)In one culture a girl choses how, when and with whom to have sex with (I would not call it marriage as many people do not marry and just co-habit and sex usually takes place before marriage anyway).40% of girls in the U.S have lost their virginity by the age of 14 according to some research.

b)In another culture a father marries a daughter off and the daughter will happily wed whoever her father chooses.

What makes you think that your viewpoint is better than the viewpoint of a different culture? What gives you the right to interfere in the way a family lives, and to say to the parent that you are not doing a good job with your daughter? If someone told me that I was a bad parent, I would put them straight. I would tell them to mind their own business. If a girl chooses to have sex with a boyfriend while she is underage does that make it better than being married? Aren’t human rights infringed upon when that young girl gets drunk, stay out till late? Ok the girl is willing and nobody forces her to get drunk but it is still self harm, and parents shouldn’t allow it. Who is the bad parent? We are conditioned to see our way of life as the right way. I think we need to give others the same right. We are not going to change our western ways and we shouldn’t try to change others to our ways.

However I think that the legal age for marriage should be increased to 16.

Btw periods start after puberty.

[mercenary2k]

@arshad5

What does living in the West have to do with my opinions? I am entitled to hold my opinion about Israel, like many other people do across the world, not just in the ‘East’ but also in the ‘West’. Living in the West does not mean that you start calling a ‘wrong’ a ‘right’. More people marched against the Iraq war in the ‘West’ than the ‘East’. It was an American student Rachel Corries that was crushed under a Israeli tank whilst protesting against the Zionists. If you live in the West do you have to accept Zionism? Does everyone in the West accept Zionism or support Israel? Your rational does not stand up to rational argument. I speak for my convictions, I don’t get paid to do propoganda. I am not a mercenary for hire.

But you are so polarized in your thinking that you automatically assume that anyone who doesnt agree with you 100% on Israel and Palestine is a traitor to the Palestinian cause and a zionist.

What you have to come to terms with there are dissenting opinion on these issues.

Labelling people only shows the level of ignorance that you inhibit.

[mercenary2k]

@arshad5

a)In one culture a girl choses how, when and with whom to have sex with (I would not call it marriage as many people do not marry and just co-habit and sex usually takes place before marriage anyway).40% of girls in the U.S have lost their virginity by the age of 14 according to some research.

You are missing the point. No one is forcing the girl to do those things. Its her own choice.

That is same difference between having Sex and being Raped.

@arshad5

b)In another culture a father marries a daughter off and the daughter will happily wed whoever her father chooses.

No father in his right mind will marry his daughter when she is 11.

Medically, Psychologically, and Religiously, it is wrong.

Are you going to marry your daughter when she turns 11?

@arshad5

What makes you think that your viewpoint is better than the viewpoint of a different culture? What gives you the right to interfere in the way a family lives, and to say to the parent that you are not doing a good job with your daughter?

I can pass judgement just as the same way I can say:

Dong drugs is bad
Not wearing seatbelts while driving is stupid
Drinking while driving is stupid
Smoking cigarettes is dangerous
etc…

Marrying a girl at 11 no matter what you say Mr.Arshad5 is WRONG WRONG WRONG

[arshad5]

@mercenary2k

You are missing the point. No one is forcing the girl to do those things. Its her own choice.

That is same difference between having Sex and being Raped.

No father in his right mind will marry his daughter when she is 11.

Medically, Psychologically, and Religiously, it is wrong.

Are you going to marry your daughter when she turns 11?

I can pass judgement just as the same way I can say:

Dong drugs is bad
Not wearing seatbelts while driving is stupid
Drinking while driving is stupid
Smoking cigarettes is dangerous
etc…

Marrying a girl at 11 no matter what you say Mr.Arshad5 is WRONG WRONG WRONG

You really are slow and I have been very patient. You are missing the point. What is unacceptable to you is acceptable to people of another culture. Things that you would find acceptable some people might find shocking viewed from their cultural perspective. Why should your view prevail over someone elses view?

[arshad5]

@mercenary2k

But you are so polarized in your thinking that you automatically assume that anyone who doesnt agree with you 100% on Israel and Palestine is a traitor to the Palestinian cause and a zionist.

What you have to come to terms with there are dissenting opinion on these issues.

Labelling people only shows the level of ignorance that you inhibit.

Ok tell me 5 good things about Israel and maybe I will change my mind…convince me.

[fayax]

@mercenary2k

oh really…how many instances can you recall of an 11 year old girl dying during child birth in which she agreed to get married and have a child?

None. Do you think she is the only one though?

And why do you keep shaving off years. Its 12 not 11.

[mercenary2k]

@arshad5

You really are slow and I have been very patient. You are missing the point. What is unacceptable to you is acceptable to people of another culture. Things that you would find acceptable some people might find shocking viewed from their cultural perspective.

What you have failed utterly to grasp is that doesn’t matter what is acceptable in their culture or not…there are some things which are universally acceptable and not acceptable…

Arranged marriage in our culture is acceptable to us but not acceptable to westerners…similarly binge drinking is acceptable to westerners but not to us…

but there are some things that are not acceptable to both groups

such as:

• female genital mutilation which is practiced in africa
• marrying a girl at 11 years of age
• human sacrifice
• slavery
• racism

Now if you went to South Africa in the 1950’s and saw that Apartheid discriminated against Blacks and you thought, hey thats south africa’s culture and it is acceptable to them, but if I went there at that time, it is WRONG plain and simple

And if you cannot grasp that simple concept…then we have nothing to discuss

[mercenary2k]

@fayax

None. Do you think she is the only one though?

And why do you keep shaving off years. Its 12 not 11.

she died at 12…which means she was impregnated when she was 11 as it takes 9 months for a woman to give birth…and that means she was probably married off at 10 or 11…understand

[arshad5]

Re: 12-year-old girl dies while giving birth

I remember a year of 9 giving birth in Brazil a few years ago. Nobody made a fuss over it. There should be an age limit. The only crime in this case is that the girl was married.

[mercenary2k]

@arshad5

Ok tell me 5 good things about Israel and maybe I will change my mind…convince me.

Its not my job to defend Israel.

I don’t blindly hate Jews, nor just blindly support Israel or Palestine.

I take a neutral stance which many Arabs do in regards to Kashmir.

My solution for Israel/Palestine.

Israel dismantles all settlements in West Bank, goes back to 67 Borders. Forms a rail and transportation link between Gaza and West Bank.

Jerusalem is an open city and capitals for both nations and refugees return to West Bank and Gaza and Israel compensates them.

Now if that gets me labelled as a Zionist by you…then you need to have your head examined.

[arshad5]

@mercenary2k

What you have failed utterly to grasp is that doesn’t matter what is acceptable in their culture or not…there are some things which are universally acceptable and not acceptable…

Arranged marriage in our culture is acceptable to us but not acceptable to westerners…similarly binge drinking is acceptable to westerners but not to us…

but there are some things that are not acceptable to both groups

such as:

• female genital mutilation which is practiced in africa
• marrying a girl at 11 years of age
• human sacrifice
• slavery
• racism

Now if you went to South Africa in the 1950’s and saw that Apartheid discriminated against Blacks and you thought, hey thats south africa’s culture and it is acceptable to them, but if I went there at that time, it is WRONG plain and simple

And if you cannot grasp that simple concept…then we have nothing to discuss

Well marriage after a girl has reached puberty is not universally unacceptable.

[fayax]

@mercenary2k

she died at 12…which means she was impregnated when she was 11 as it takes 9 months for a woman to give birth…and that means she was probably married off at 10 or 11…understand

Oh really!!! Should that be news to me? lol

So now you are saying its the marriage thats wrong and not the fact that she died during child birth?

So if she had not become pregnant till later it would be okay?

So its the “being pregnant” that is bad and not the fact that she got married right?

[arshad5]

@mercenary2k

Its not my job to defend Israel.

I don’t blindly hate Jews, nor just blindly support Israel or Palestine.

I take a neutral stance which many Arabs do in regards to Kashmir.

My solution for Israel/Palestine.

Israel dismantles all settlements in West Bank, goes back to 67 Borders. Forms a rail and transportation link between Gaza and West Bank.

Jerusalem is an open city and capitals for both nations and refugees return to West Bank and Gaza and Israel compensates them.

Now if that gets me labelled as a Zionist by you…then you need to have your head examined.

No you don’t hate Jews but you go out of your way to defend Israel.

Why would anyone in the right mind defend Israel?

[mercenary2k]

@arshad5

I remember a year of 9 giving birth in Brazil a few years ago. Nobody made a fuss over it. There should be an age limit. The only crime in this case is that the girl was married.

And the reason that she gave birth was because she was raped…

9-year-old girl gives birth in Brazil - Pravda.Ru

please think before you actually post…it will save you the embarrassment…