What is the Quranic version of the 10 plagues? The 10th plague, commemorated in Passover, isn’t mentioned in the Quran. I understand there were 9 plagues? What were these? Was the first born deaths not a real story?
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
I’m just watching this CNN special on the Christian and Jewish versions of these stories, so it’s fascinating.
I have forgotten so much of the Moses story from Islamic school.
Moses received the commandments - per Jewish there were like 600 something of them not 10. Similar to our views? They were written on tablets, and stored in an arc. The arc of the covenant is mentioned I thought in Surah Bakrah or one of the earlier surah’s in the Quran. So we believe there was an arc too that was made, for these tablets. I guess the “covenant” = these commandments?
Then there was an interesting part of the story the Jewish mentioned. That Allah asked Musa (AS) to talk to a rock, but he struck it with his staff instead, and this angered Allah. Allah therefore told him you aren’t going to go to the promised land with your people - they will go ahead without you.
But I thought the Jews never got to the promised land until recently when they’ve settled in Jurusalem, now present day Israel?
I’m so confused about the Moses story now.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
beti, you are not the only one confused the whole ummah is confused thanks to our ignorant molvies who have been feeding us with all the nonsense of other religions as deen of islam. No wonder people raise so many objections against deen of islam due to what mullahs have been pushing as deen of islam for centuries.
Unless we muslims wake up and become educated there is not going be any ummah in the future either as there has not been one for last so many centuries since after the prophet. The quranic originality and authenticity has been attacked repeatedly without much effective response. All we do is say well we are same as you in almost in every sense. This should never have been the response of muslims ever because it means islam is as false as any other religion.
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These are the things we should be working on and not wasting out time on other things that have nothing at all to do with deen of islam.
Our aim should have been to prove the originality of the quran to ourselves and others to begin with and to rediscover the actual message of the quran and explain it to rest of the world. We as a people failed ourselves very badly and as a result we have also failed many human generations because it was our responsibility to take the actual message of God and educate ourselves about it properly as well as the rest of humanity. We were not to argue over who is better grave worshipper and personality cult originator and developer or who can control jinn and angels or cast magic spells. How stupid of people who claim to be muslims yet remain so low in their intelligence due to ignorance, illiteracy, lack of education and logical consistent thinking.
This is why people need to read and not just read but read very carefully what little I write when I write it. It is because I have put a lot of effort in learning a lot of very fundamental facts about things, the quran and deen of islam. I have managed to explain in an original way the originality of the quran beyond a shadow of doubt that cannot be refuted by any scholar anywhere in the world.
One can see my work on the quran HERE and HERE
It is a lot of reading but one will find it well worth it. After knowing all this one will have sufficient confidence to show the world why the quran is superior to all other existing scriptures in the world and that all other scriptures need base of the quran to be accepted authentic. There true message can only be understood properly after knowing the quran properly.
regards and all the best.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
^ hmm…you did not answer my question.
From what I’m reading, the plague taking young boys from each home was a judeo-christian myth and not an Islamic belief.
Going back to your point, yeah these things ARE important. If this is true, it shows that Islam is the less barbaric and more rational religion because why would Allah punish a little boy from each home in Pharoah’s time? This was actually something the Pharoah did.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Yep. Pharaoh ordered to kill baby boys after he had a dream of a boy taking over his throne. Although, it is considered a type of affliction as per Islam a tyrant ruler is a form of test or punishment.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Right, but I’m talking about the 10 plagues of Egypt.
Per Jewish tradition and I think Christians believe the same, there were plagues like locusts and frogs. Frogs? Anyway. The 10th plague was the Angel of Death being sent down from Allah to take the life of the first born in every pagan home. Moses was instructed to have every believer in his community saccrifice a goat, take the blood and smear it on the entrance of their homes, so the Angel of death knew to “passover” that home. Instead first born sons were taken from every other home, including the Pharoah’s own child.
After this, Pharoah asked Moses to take his followers and leave, secondary to being creeped out by the whole thing. He then followed Moses and followers trying to kill them, hence the parting of the sea etc.
Now…the Quran I think talks about 9 plagues and so I was wondering if the 10th is the one that is in Judeo-Christian tradition but not muslim tradition?
This scene of marking blood on the doors and angel of death - you’ll see it depicted in that famous move on moses, I remember seeing it when I was a kid.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
The Passover was well known at the time of RasoolAllah (SAW) - if it was a falsehood - it would have been clarified. Instead, we were given encouragement to fast with the Jews around about this time.
The Passover as you know was coincidental with the 10th plague … the 10th plague being the death of the first born in Egypt any home (Israelite) with a red (lamb’s blood) mark on the door the angel of death would pass over it and not take the first born son’s life. So clearly the people who sided with the Pharaoh would have their first borns die as well as Pharaoh himself.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Again, no muslim uses the Quran.
In the Quran, there are 9 plagues mentioned, and that last one is not mentioned. Do we have any proof of the 10th plague being mentioned anywhere else? To say that there was a 10th when the Quran talks only of the 9, then the 10th is a falsehood.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
- For an urdu, farsi or arabic speaker it is very easy to refute all scholars who think the quran we have today is not original. How? By looking at ancient copies of the quran. These copies did not have dots to distinguish between letters to begin with and they did not have vowel marks. What does that mean? It means BAY, TAY, SAY, NOON and YAI could not be written as separated letters because they used the very same sign or symbol. JEEM, HAY and KHAY used the very same sign. Like wise DAAL and ZAA, RAY and ZAY, SEEN and SHJEEN, SWAD and DWAD, TWAI and ZOE, AIN and GHAIN, FAY and QAAF and LAAM and YAI used the same sign. This being the case none could read a writing unless one already knew the text by heart.
2)Each of the newer languages have been borrowing words from other ancestral and sisterly languages and when it comes to arabic, it is a root based system so depending on where it borrowed a word from it ended up with multiple roots for words. What does that mean? It means the same word could be written with different letters eg take word SIRAAT, one can write it with root SEEN, RAA and TWAA or SWAAD, RAA and TWAA. So in arabic letters for many words are interchangeable.
3)In arabic vowels can be replaced with diacritical marks so each consonant could have six possible sounds eg MEEM could be MU or MOOO, or MA or MAAA, or ME or MEEE etc. So if we wrote just four consonants MHMD, we will have 6x6x6x6=1296 possibilities of pronunciations.
4)These are concrete facts that any scholar can verify for oneself. It is really challenging for any scholar to try reading a text that is size of the quran merely from the consonants alone without having known it previously. One cannot read such a text unless one has it already in one’s memory. This is clear proof that the quran was memorised direct from the source otherwise merely having a text could end up as countless number of different readings because each word could be pronounced in many different ways due to lack of diacritical marks as well as due to lack of dots for identification of each letter in word. The lack of such huge number of variant reading of the quranic text in the muslim world proves that the quran as we have it today is original.
5)Just as it was not possible to read the quran from the written text alone uniformly so it was not possible to write the quran uniformly if it was not copied in writing from the already existing written copy of the quran. Why not? As explained already many words in the quran had variant roots so if people sat down to write a text out of memory as individuals then each person will make a copy from his memory as he knew how to write a word so there will occur numberless variants written texts. For example, if people had to write down word SIRAAT, some will write it with SEEN and other with SWAAD. Not only that but they will do it in different places in the quranic text. Since the quran has many such words in it then we ought to find such variations in huge numbers ir trillions but we do not. How can any scholar in the world explain that? So another clear proof that the quran came down both in written and memorised forms independent of each other.
6)These simple explanations are sufficient to prove that people who rely on false reports in hadith books and other sources to prove the quran was collected and written down after the prophet are seriously mistaken and such reports should not be taken seriously in light of such concrete proofs as stated here.
This does not mean there are no copying errors in the existing copies of the quran, there are but the nature of error is very simple ie humans make all sorts of errors due to absent mindedness in whatever they do. Mind always wonders off when people get tired or bored in doing something so they may end up writing something out of context or missing the whole line of text or add something from whatever is in their minds etc etc. Not only that people add their own notes in books for jogging their memory about some points they think are important to highlight. So those who were copying the quran suffered the same but nothing was done deliberately because for that one had to have a purpose in mind. What I mean is that if anyone wanted to change the quran deliberately then one ought to have some purpose in mind which his new quran could serve and in that case ummah could never have the same quranic text which it always have had to date.
8)So all allegations against the originality of the quran are mere misunderstanding of the scholars and nothing more unless they have ulterior motives to deliberately say falsehood against the originality of the quran but that only they know for themselves.
For ancient copies of the quran see following links.
9)A misunderstanding of scholars is that they take modification of written arabic as changes in text of the quran. They do not realise that when people face problems they look for solutions. It was found very difficult to read and write the quran the way the original arabic was written so they came up with idea of adding dots and diacritical marks to reduce dependency on memory. This is why when new ways of writing the very same text were discovered the number of hufaaz of the quran dropped from say 90% to a few percent. It is because people could now read actual message from the written arabic text except for a small number of things so dependency on hufaaz decreased with time and printing press. For example, if a word was management and it was written as MNGMNT and was modified to management due to development and progress in the language then scholar due to their ignorance took it as a change in the actual text of the quran, which is silly to say the least. We even today use sign for many things including road traffic signs instead of writing because they are easy to work with than standing and reading a sign while people blow their tops off shouting during busy road traffic. So it all depends on how a society organises and regulates itself and how easy it feels with what it does otherwise people modify things as it suits them better. So when things seemed difficult arabs modified the way of writing arabic and in doing so benefited from this modification. Such simple explanations are ignored by people or they remain ignorant about them yet they claim their research is of highest standard.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Or is it 5 plagues mentioned?
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Mughal, you are posting irrelevant posts. I am not saying the Quran is not authentic. God… having a debate here is like talking to walls.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
The hadith about fasting celebrates that Jewish were fasting on the day they were “liberated” from the Pharoah, there is no mention that this fast was in celebration was for a mass infanticide by God in Egypt.
It was the Pharoah that slaughtered infants, not God. That’s what I’m gathering from this.
The 10th plague sounded outright barbaric.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
This seems to actually answer the question. I thought that 10th plague sounded funny.
It is nothing more than folklore.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Peace Sister PCG
Look there are two references in the Qur’an and this is how I understand them … First of all the Qur’an speaks of Signs not Plagues and the Bible speaks of Plagues and not Signs so to force fit them on to each other is not entirely correct.
A sign precedes a punishment … When the actual punishment happens that is when the tawbah cannot be invoked …
Please see this graphic to explain my understanding of the two pictures.
Ref 1 and Ref 2 are from the Qur’an …
Column 1 - info
Column 2 - Biblical plagues - but not all of them really are plagues and their order is numbered
Column 3 - Ref 1 - Qur’an - these I believe contextualise the 5th item in Ref 2
Column 4 - Ref 2 - The first 4 are the clear signs - but the 5th is actually the grouping of the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th signs as per Ref 1.
Ref 1 = http://quran.com/7/133
Ref 2 = http://quran.com/27/10
http://quran.com/27/12
http://quran.com/7/130
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Understanding punishment is important here also … I see why you think it is odd for God to take the souls of children … But if that were really that odd then no one should die … and certainly no children should ever die … but they do and they die naturally … the punishment is for the parents who survived not the children … who will be saved.
Whether this story is folklore or not does not mean anything to Muslims - but to argue on the basis that it is odd that God would take souls of children as punishment is not correct … God owns all life and as the Owner of life He can choose to do what He wills to us.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Um except in plenty of places in the Quran, the emphasis is on individual responsibility of sin. Child does not pay for father’s sins. Basic aspect of Islamic theology and the 10th plague of first norms would violate that idea.
Furthermore 10th plague is not mentioned in the Quran so did not happen. There are clearly 9 plagues written. Therefore 10th is made up. Since there is no commentary on it in Hadith or Quran it may have been introduced into the bible after 600 AD. That’s a pretty severe plague you think it would have been mentioned.
Relax psyah, this just means the Quran isn’t as barbaric and Allah isn’t unfair to souls. Why do you want the 10th plague to be true?
I’ll tell you why - it’s because you like violence. You have excused the Taliban for their crimes and it’s because you really believe unfair killings are part of Allah’s culture.
They’re not.
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Are you sure it was plagues? Not 9 points of Shariah that have never changed in the Religion through out all the Prophets and Messengers? [Peace be upon them]
I don’t know if these can be called commandments I have heard the term 10 commandments], Syed Muzzaffar Shah Hussain mentions Nine [9] points that were always present
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Peace Sister PCG
The Qur’an does not talk about plagues … It says Signs … I was trying to say that earlier … Also not all the plagues are actually plagues themselves … The idea behind father’s not bearing the crime of the son is also present in the Bible … And again I stress that when a child dies that is not equivalent to punishment on the child … It happens anyway in your own life you have seen it happen … Children die all the time … But if it happens in a certain way like in the Passover account then that is felt by the parents as loss, but their children might well be in paradise … It is not Barbaric … If it was then one can argue that any death is barbaric and no one should ever die naturally …
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Peace brother vroom
The Qur’an specifically uses the word nine signs … and for some reason we try to retrofit them on to the 10 plagues … My explanation as stated before is that … Not all of the 9 signs are the same as the 10 plagues talked about in the Bible, but some were … The ones that were are given … Some “plagues” were part of the punishment and were neither signs nor technically plagues anyway … Like darkness for 3 days in the Bible … That itself indicates punishment has begun … It is a different matter for calling it a plague or not, but a sign precedes a punishment, it does not include it … So it is no matter that the Qur’an omits the last plague of the Bible (and the one before it, might I add) … Because the Qur’an does not speak of plagues it speaks of signs that precede an imminent punishment. The punishment is not described … But that does not mean that it did not happen. Rejection of clear signs was a destructive offence pre-Islamic period … When signs so clear come the repentance doors are closed … This is a well established understanding of the Sunnah of Allah (SWT), with Pharaoh and the elite of Egypt who rejected the clear signs their punishment started and may have included the darkness, the death of the sons but also as described in the Qur’an as in the Bible … Pharaoh and his people who followed Moses (AS) as they escaped were killed in the parted sea … That came back on itself on to the pursuers of the Israelites.
Whenever “clear signs” is used for accounts in the past coupled with outright rejection by the people then that leads to destruction of the people … We should understand that rather than try to explain away things … Previous nations were destroyed for disobedience of Allah (SWT) …
Re: 10 Plagues of Egypt - Quranic version
Where is the proof that the First Born curse actually happened? In our religion. We don’t agree with everything that is written in the Old and New testament, right? So what proof do you have this happened when the Quran uses the number 9 and mentions all the other “plagues” except for the first born item?
Allah does not deliver a punishment to a child that is meant for the parent. Islam states each soul gets their punishment that is due.
Taking away first borns, think about it, from the average household in Egypt, involves innocent people being punished for the Pharoah’s crime.
Also, it doesn’t make sense that Allah would deliver the same blood thirsty act that the Pharoah did years before. Pharoah was the one who committed infanticide on a large scale, taking away newborns from each house. So then? Why would Allah mimic the Pharoah’s barbaric behavior?
9 vs. 10 - these numbers aren’t just re-categorizations