Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
so we agree
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
SD, you cannot say that ALL religions promote war.
were Hitler and stalin relgious?
no...most wars that occured were not due to religion.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Well, if the topic is about religion and violence, then this is most relevant. It is this lesson that is not lost on religious folk...and if the claim is that religious folk are more prone to violence, then such lessons would serve your cause well, no?
The last I checked, people go to war...not books or scriptures. Why is it so difficult to pin "bad"/natural behavior on people, rather than religion? Especially since said behavior is near universal.
Sometimes, people WANT to go to war...and they barely need convincing...
Re: 002:191 - “And kill them wherever you find them…”
**
** And (O Muhammad SAW) recite to them (the Jews) the story of the two sons of Adam [Hâbil (Abel) and Qâbil (Cain)] in truth; when each offered a sacrifice (to Allâh), it was accepted from the one but not from the other. The latter said to the former: “I will surely kill you.]” The former said: “Verily, Allâh accepts only from those who are *Al-Muttaqûn *(the pious - see V.2:2).”
yes from religious sources only,for us muslims its all we need.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
uffff..ok karakush u said all wars arent becuz of religion and then u said the first murder was due to jealousy....then i answered saying that only in religious scriptures does it say that first murder was due to jealousy....so if u r arguing that religion in fact is valid then u cannot provide me with an example quoted in a scripture...thats flawed logic.
The last I checked, people go to war...not books or scriptures. Why is it so difficult to pin "bad"/natural behavior on people, rather than religion? Especially since said behavior is near universal.
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picoico because those that do not believe in a particular scripture argue that this scripture has in fact been written by a "man" so they are not blaming God or divine scripture...but indirectly blaming the man.
yeah tribalism and nationalism do mobilize but the only one that claims divinity and promises hell fire, if not complied with, is religion
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
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picoico because those that do not believe in a particular scripture argue that this scripture has in fact been written by a "man" so they are not blaming God or divine scripture...but indirectly blaming the man.
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...so the Quran is not divine because it mentions violence? Why does that fail to impress me as a reasonable response...?
My question is: why is violence ALL bad, or what on earth makes you think that God doesn't ever sanction violence? You must have encountered the old Hitler question?
Critics can argue all they want, and if they think that their being pacifists is all fine, then they can live in a cave and avoid people who would do them harm. The rest of us will live in the real world.
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yeah tribalism and nationalism do mobilize but the only one that claims divinity and promises hell fire, if not complied with, is religion
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...okay, so the net result is the same, but one is worse because of promises of hell fire...which the critics don't even recognize?
Again, this sounds more like excuses to hate religion...
I mean, if we can't bring religious scriptures into an argument, why can you? :-)
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
i dont hate RELIGION. i find more comfort in the fact that everyone is created equal as opposed to some races/ethnicities/religions being superios to others.....
and that God is kind just and loving.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
and that God is kind just and loving.
agreed.
-- But what do you do if some of these equally created beings oppress you and invade your lands.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
and that God is kind just and loving.
Agreed and that's what Islam is all about. God is just and loving!
God also punishes all those who do/did bad..
back to grade 1 shall we??
Parents are kind and loving to you but when you have done something wrong you will pay for it. They forgive you at the end even at start..
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
I much ratehr believe in those holybooks who don't talk in terms of loot murder plunder be it context or out of context.....
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Was it self defense when Muslims marched up all the way to Morocco and then into Spain???? why do you guys allways have to be on the Right??? all the religions have some incompatibilityies with the environment changes(meaning with nature) you can argue all you can but the fact remains the same and which is, there was, and still is, more bloodshed in the name of religion than anything else. Like someone said above, tendencies towards voilence is in nature of man BUT it is so wrong when they use religion to justify those tendencies....
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Not to mention Iran the complete annihilation of most peaceful people Zorashtrians........... delusion delusion of self defence...........
Once prophet pbuh ordered beheading of 900 jews ( test of culpability was absence or presence of pubic hair).. their purported crime was suspicion of conspiracy by someone among them.. even if u buy that there may have been some kind of conspiracy by some of them does this justify beheading all of them...
BTW I have prayed in temple mosque gurudwara synagogue church buddhist vihars and listend to their religios sermon............. in terms of goodies they all talk in the same way only difference they preach is in terms of what to eat and what not to what to wear and what not to u know how to clean urself after going to bathroom etc etc u know the kidn which can very well be ignored as insgnificant and useless
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
By the time Muslims entered Spain, they were an Imperial power not really worried about theological validity except for how it could further their Imperial agenda.
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Like someone said above, tendencies towards voilence is in nature of man BUT it is so wrong when they use religion to justify those tendencies....
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Depends. I mean, were priests wrong to bless their soliders as they went off to fight Hilter? Hmm?
It needs explanation why it's so bad when the end result is the same. Are you a patriot, by any chance?
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Actually, Zoroastrianism was the main religion of Iran well up to the 10th century. Evidence suggests that their conversion didn't really take full swing untill Shiasm developed a persian flavour...
They were hardly peaceful, either...they were in a state of war with Byzantium during the period Islam arrived on the scene.
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Once prophet pbuh ordered beheading of 900 jews ( test of culpability was absence or presence of pubic hair).. their purported crime was suspicion of conspiracy by someone among them..
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It was treason of the entire Tribe, who were activley supporting the enemy. Nor was it the Prophet (pbuh) who ordered the execution of the fighting men, but rather a judge selected by the Jews themselves (who judged according to Jewish law).
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
I'd say the above verse fits the bill...no?
How about showing these holy-men that their out to lunch, rathr than validating their reasons for hate...
They aren't following a religious agenda, they are following political nationalistic agenda. Don't mix two........... they are different...
Re: 002:191 - “And kill them wherever you find them…”
This is ur problem.
Accourding to u people there are only two kinds of human beings in the world
Muslim friends and non muslim enemys.
Nabi taught u how to live in a muslim community only.
He forgot to teach u how to live with a border mentality.
That made muslims the most hated race of the world.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Superficial difference. The end result is the same...well, kind of...the Americans are not in a fight for survival whereas the Early muslims were. It could be well argued that the Americans are fighting a much more dogmatic campaign, with no clear motivation (if we are to reject the fight-for-oil premise) than the Muslims were...who had a penultimate political goal...namely not being eliminated.
So pray tell, why should the two not be mixed?
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
** Once prophet pbuh ordered beheading of 900 jews ( test of culpability was absence or presence of pubic hair).. their purported crime was suspicion of conspiracy by someone among them.. even if u buy that there may have been some kind of conspiracy by some of them does this justify beheading all of them... ** BTW I have prayed in temple mosque gurudwara synagogue church buddhist vihars and listend to their religios sermon............. in terms of goodies they all talk in the same way only difference they preach is in terms of what to eat and what not to what to wear and what not to u know how to clean urself after going to bathroom etc etc u know the kidn which can very well be ignored as insgnificant and useless
The number was 700...The tribe of Banu Quraizah had conspired with the enemies of Muslims to destroy them...The sentence was proclaimed by one of their own...
This myth of cold bloodely killing off a tribe has been debunked and put away...Your information is coming from pre-internet times...Get updated and get with the times...
Your lies and fabrications nowadays holds little truth and makes you look ignorant...
Re: 002:191 - “And kill them wherever you find them…”
If you believe in Religions as tools than let me try to explain the ‘concept’ in a tool way for you. Suppose there is a knife in the kitchen, this knife can be used for several purposes depends on the person and their intentions. If their intensions are to kill then they’ll do that regardless of what education and background they are from. You cannot stop and control other person’s ‘free will’ or some might say intentions. That’s why we have Religion, God, Prophets, Duties, Responsibilities and Practices that help us stay away from those intentions. Again, Religion is not responsible for your will. You can be a five time Namazi for your entire life and before you die kill a person for no good reason, but that five time Namaz and fear of Allah will make it less likely for you to take that step.
Now, Religion and passions go hand in hand. That’s why you see masses of people (rich, poor, black, white, men, women, stupid, educated) come and perform Pilgrimage. For non-believers and others, it might appear as a waste of time but that same passion as helped us shape science. These same Muslims read Quran and found verses about Science and Archeology. These same Muslims read Quran and got to know Astronomy, Embryology and Atmospheric Science and now you say it is just a tool to incite people to kill and be killed?
Right now Religion would be the best excuse for all the ill that is taking place in the world. We can blame it on the people that are fanatics on the both side for the innocents getting killed. The question is: If there wasn’t a religion would these people have the same ill-will? Why or why not?
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Muslim friends and non muslim enemys. Nabi taught u how to live in a muslim community only. He forgot to teach u how to live with a border mentality. That made muslims the most hated race of the world.
First of all, you have just showed how ignorant you are by saying the above. Secondly, I do not live in muslim community. I have not encountered even one Christian, Jew, or Athiest who has problem with me or what i follow. Infact, due to what I am, what i follow (Islam), and what I believe - the people around me (i.e. Christian, Jew, or Athiest) have come to better understand Islam. Most of these friends of mine are eager to learn and expand their knowledge regarding the Message conveyed by the Prophets Musa, Isa, Mohammad, and others who went before them (PBU Them). These friends of mine, since meeting me, have become better beings (as stated by them, and noticed by me, their parents, and friends).
Before Judging anything, it is wise to know about it.