Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
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Religions are nothing but tools to justify voilence done by those who are completely ignorant of human values.
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Ignorant comment.
Violence is a human value. If anything, religion keeps a cap on it within social groupings. Base human instincts come out when inter-group values/interests clash.
BTW most secular countries force women and men to cover up. There is no such thing as a natural state of being as you allude to, since living by some moral code seems to be a natural thing for humans to do.
You hate religion because you have a problem with authority. Your pubescent part of yer mind is getting the better of you.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
eggjactly...thats what religion reinforces. a sense of purpose. war against an unseen devil....
i like to look at people around me...just take GS as an example...people find it impossible to separate religion from culture... now u cant tell me that it wasnt this way with people existing hundreds of yrs ago...that they were at a level of spirituality that we can never think of achieving.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
It is in our nature to be dominant over others, to have more power, to control more support, to enmass more wealth, to shed more blood. Therefore it is human nature.
Generally human values are defined as the good things that humanity agree's upon.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
^^ first i am speaking of religion in general not just islam.
secondly- telling people to kill the jews and christians wherever u find them, kill apostates, that jews have curse of allah upon them ...self defence?
2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
SD, first of all. Did you not happen to read my first post in this thread explaining the 'kill them wherever you find them' ayat ?
Second, how is 2:216 dictating war... It simply says and that for every man his welfare is ordained by Allah. And that man may not like something which is good for him or he may like something which is bad for him. Ultimately allah knows all.
How is that dictating war ?
Now please find me where it says to kill christians and jews wherever you find them.
Speaking of religion in general is one thing, islam is not a 'general' religion. It is very specific and has many qualities that seperate it from all the other general religions out there.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Iqra, Read!
Read what i posted. It didnt need any explainations. Allah talks of fighting those who are oppressing you or causing mischief against not, not just anyone. Allah is speaking of self defence....not outright murder!
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
2:109 Many of the people of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
...and...so? The logical flaw here is that even if we remove religion from the equation, something else easily takes its place.
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i like to look at people around me...just take GS as an example...people find it impossible to separate religion from culture... now u cant tell me that it wasnt this way with people existing hundreds of yrs ago...that they were at a level of spirituality that we can never think of achieving.
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Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
secondly- telling people to kill the jews and christians wherever u find them, kill apostates, that jews have curse of allah upon them ...self defence?
Didn't we just have this conversation a while back? It was, in fact, self defence.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
what takes its place? what else gives humans a sense of purpose and meaning to their lives like religion? what else drives masses to perform certain acts and not perform others?...its true that humans act on different levels but if religion is removed then it is not the same thing when it comes to mobilizing them...
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
religion is actually the tool with which those who want to wage war rally the ordinary masses.they know the importance of human values and they also know that only religion can create the fervor necessary to blind the sensibilities.
ordinary masses r dumb n therefore democracy persists but the opinion of people matters.is gupshup made of ordinary people or the mentally,intellectualy elite?
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
terribly sorry to remind u that war persisted even when there wasnt religion.if anything religion gave etiquette of war. if people misused technology like fusion/fission we cant deem technology evil,same is the case with religion.people use it for thier own agendas yes but that doesnt nullify religion or waste its purpose.
may i remind u that the first murder was due to jealousy, and wat is jealousy, simply ego,wat i want i want,watever the reason.
bani israel,Allahs fav qoam/nation crucified christ bcoz they didnt want to leave their old ways.why do u think was that.the high priests rallied the commons against christ and it was done bcoz the commoners allowed the priests to make judgement on their behalf.
why dont sunni n shia unite,its not religion*,its the ego that wat we say is correct,we r not prepared to lose our uniqueness.*
the misuse of religion results from corrupt bearers of our religious flags bcoz the ordinary folks wont give religion the attention it deserves.take a look at gupshup, we post wat we dont understand instead of researching and as always the issue is lost in between the personal n derogatory comments.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
Nationalism/patriotism. Tribalism. Greed. Fear. In case you haven't noticed, the country you are in is in a state of war. Trust me, it ain't all about religion (although certain segments of the religious community are happy the war is going on).
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what else drives masses to perform certain acts and not perform others?...its true that humans act on different levels but if religion is removed then it is not the same thing when it comes to mobilizing them...
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Communism was expansionist, and it was explicitly anti-religion.
Imperfect people can profess perfect ideals, but are doomed to fail if they try to practice them.
Re: 002:191 - "And kill them wherever you find them..."
may i remind u that the first murder was due to jealousy,
.
according to RELIGIOUS SOURCES ONLY.
**again according to religious sources. this is flawed logic. **
again i am not denying that human ego and materialistic gains are not at work but talking about the mobilizing of the masses...a leader may gain (materially or gain power) by going to war at the expense of the little guy....so leaders will call to religion to make it seem worthwhile.
