Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

^^ Brother i hear what you say...

But the fake votes or whatever you call them now, were included on the orders of SC of Pakistan because EC and NADRA fell short of their assignment....

The thing is, there is no way any party will be able to form a govt on its own, and yes PPP will be there in the next parliament thanks to political rifts and ego issues between the anti-ppp parties, it will be hung parliament and there will be marriages of convinence all around and who can beat Zardari in these kind of marriages??

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

^ I agree with you, in Sindh we still would have PPP in majority, the game will be decided in KP and Punjab. Its not easy to predict as to which party will get how many seats, but if the elections are held today PMLN might just nudge ahead. After a couple of months we will have to see how PTI goes, especially their organization in Balochistan, KP and how they keep the momentum going in Punjab and urban Sindh. It would be a disaster if we get PPP in power again after the next elections, as the rest of the parties may or may not perform but for PPP we can say for sure they will do nothing.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

Brother you are forgetting when the last time PPP was considered anti Punjab in 1997 the election results were something like this:

STATISTICS
Round no 1 (3 February 1997): Elections results

Number of registered electors 55,068,024
Voters 19,506,855 (35.42%)
Valid votes 35.16%
Round no 1: Distribution of seats

Political Group Total
Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) 137
Pakistan People's Party (PPP) 18
Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) 12
Awami National Party (ANP) 10
Independents 21
Others 9

This time PPP situation in Punjab is worse than 1997. PPP ticket is becoming a liability for the contestants of the election in Punjab.
Firdous Ashiq Awan in her Sialkot constituency will at best finish third in the next election. I am a little of aware of this Sialkot II constituency.. You can note down the date today and we will reconcile our notes after the elections.

Saleem is hardly an expert on Punjab electoral politics. Don't you remember his predictions for 2008 elections..

Following is the detailed analysis of PPP in Punjab:

1) Faisalabad.. PPPP had four seats in 2008.. they will not get a single seat there this time.

2) Sargodha.. they had 2 seats in 2008.. they will not get any seat this time.

3) Jhang.. they won the Chiniot seat last time.. this time they will not win it.

4) Gujranwala.. they won the Imtiaz Safdar Warriach seat in 2008.. Mr. Warriach will not retain his seat this time.

5) Gujrat.. Out of total 4 seats.. Ahmad Mukhtar/Chaudry Shujjat combo won 3 seats.. this time this combo will take two seats. One for Ahmad Mukhtar and other for one of the Chaudries. This combo will lose one seat in Gujrat.

6) Mandi Bhauddin: PPP won both the seats in last election because they had one to one fight with PMLQ.. there were no PMLN candidates there. This time PPP will lose both the seats there..

7) Out of 8 Sialkot/Narowal seats.. PPP one only one (Firdous Ashiq Awan).. they will not win a single seat this time in the region.

8) Lahore.. Out of 13 seats PPP won 2 in 2008.. this time may be they will retain Samina Ghurki seat.. but that too is a big question mark..

9) Out of seven Shiekhupura seats they did not win a single seat.. it will be the same this time..

10) Out of 5 Kasur seats they won only Sardar Asif's seat. This time they will not get a single seat in Kasur.

11) Out of 5 Okara seats they won 2.. This time they will retain maximum one seat.

12) Out of 7 Multan seats they won 2.. SMQ/PM.. this time they will retain perhaps PM's seat.

13) They had one seat from Lodharan which they will lose this time.

14) Out of four Khanewal seats they had one last time.. they will not retain the seat this time.

15) In Sahiwal last time they had 2 seats out of 4.. This time they will not retain a single seat.

16) Pakpattan out of 3 they had nothing.. this time also they will have nothing..

17) Vehari Out of 4 they had 2 seats.. They will have nothing this time as Aseem Daultana has died and Tochi Khan will not retain his seat.

18) D.G Khan out of 3 seats they had nothing last time.. this time they will have nothing as well..

19) From Rajanpur out of two seats they had one.. They will not have a single seat this time.

20) Muzafargarh they had 5 seats out of 5 seats. This time they will retain 3 at most.

21) Layyah They had nothing out of two seats. This time also they will have nothing.

22) Bhawalpur.. They had nothing out of 5 seats.. they will have nothing this time also.

23) Bhawalnagar they had 3 put of 4 seats. They will retain 2 perhaps..

24) Out of 6 RahimyarKhan seats PPP had 4.. This time Hamid Saeed Kazmi and Mukhdoom Shahbudin will not retain their seats. They will probably end up with 2 seats..

25) Out of total 15 Nothern Punjab seats (Islamabad/Pindi/Chakwal/Jehlum/Attock) PPP had 2 seats.. they will not retain a single seat in this region.

P.S. I have this analysis with the help of a person who is really an expert in constituency politics. He has taken in to consideration the present PPP popularity in Punjab and has analyzed the the whole province region by region.. seat by seat.

At most this opinion (which is obviously a personal opinion) give a maximum of 15 seats in Punjab for PPP..

This makes a total tally of 12 -15 seats in Punjab for PPP this time.. Out of 147..

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

^^ You are right, but back then things were not as confused as they are today!!!

PPP if you cross check the results of 97 with earlier elections you will find that there was not any significant increase in the number of votes PML-N got but it was decrease in number of votes casted to PPP which gave PML-N 2/3rd majority in the NA.

Now PML-N was hoping for the same, i won't blame PML-N anyone have PPP as a oponent would feel same way, a land slide victory but things are not as simple as they were back then... PPP have been successfull in portraying itself as a victim again... they may not win from Lahore or Faisalabad or PINDI but that doesn't mean they are not going to make anything out of rest of Punjab where people already begining to think the PPP is victim here (same can be seen on these forums where some PTI supporters called SC biased!!! think about the voter now) and with Bilawal and Asifa and Bakhtawar entering the picture, it may not be 88 again but would get great help to revive the PPP/BHUTTO sentiment in Punjab..

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

well at least in Punjab they will not be considered as victims, as the ordinary people there themselves now considers themselves victim of PPP.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

^^ Like I said, yes may be that is true in cities like Lahore, FBD and Pindi.. but that is not all Punjab!!!

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

well we will see...there's no love lost between PPP and Balochistan too (due to their indifference to their plight), I dont see them getting seats in Punjab if PMLN and PTI take their message to the masses about the problems that they are facing due to the energy crisis, rising costs of petroleum, inflation, joblessness, fertilizer shortages are due to the ill planning/incompetence of federal government. In KP they might gets the seats they get, there wouldnt be anything special there too.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

That's some effort man, top class. I agree with most of the above predictions but i am by no means an expert :)

As far as Lahore is concerned, i think Jahangir Badar will also wins his seat as he almost always does because of his popularity in Androon Lahore.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

That is not enough to win seat for forming govt in NA...

What if from a constituency, a PML-N Candidate gets 40K votes, PTI candidate gets 40K and PPP candidate manages 41K... who do you think will be declared winner of that seat in this situation?

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

i dont think they will be in a position to get that kind of votes, but lets see how things go, there are still 6-7 months to go. Keeping their previous track record in mind hopefully the government will keep exposing itself with the passage of time and make it easier for the people to decide. If they still win after the next elections then the people deserve them, and shouldnt complain afterwards.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

In a single constituency of Punjab ( in most cases if not all) one may need to get 70K+ votes to win... now that is true for any candidate be it from PPP, PML-N or any other party, in some constituencies, the case is even when the candidate have secured these many votes he still face threat of losing because margin is small... and this is very true in urban areas of Punjab... anyway, mobilizing PPP's voter, we need to see how Zardari is going to make his next move....

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

This is the precise reason I gave you a region wise analysis of Punjab. Pindi/Northern Punjab has 17 seats.. Faisalabad has 11 NA seats.. Lahore has 13 seats.. Sargogha has 5 seats.. Khushab has 3 seats.. Mianwali/Bhakar have 4 seats.. Jhang has 6 seats.. Toba/Gujranwala have 10 seats.. Sialkot/Norowal/Hafizabad have 10 seats.. Kasur 5, Shekhupura 7, Okara 5, Multan 7, Kanewal 4, Sahiwal 3, Pakpattan 3…

All these areas if you go constituency by constituency you don’t see many PPP candidates winning in all these areas.

Punjab is where the election is won or lost.. PPP is going to lose big time in Punjab in coming election.

Just go through the election results of 2008.. You will find mostly PPP candidates winning in constituencies where there was no PMLN candidate and they were contesting against PMLQ directly. Go through constituencies of South Punjab.. and you will realize what is the situation in upcoming elections. The biggest dent this time for PPP will be South Punjab where the dynamics have changed in favor of PTI in Multan/Muzafargarh specially.. and Rahimyarkhan where Ahmad Mehmood will support PMLN (most probably)… PPP is in dire straits in Southern Punjab region.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

This is the precise reason I gave you a region wise analysis of Punjab. Pindi/Northern Punjab has 17 seats.. Faisalabad has 11 NA seats.. Lahore has 13 seats.. Sargogha has 5 seats.. Khushab has 3 seats.. Mianwali/Bhakar have 4 seats.. Jhang has 6 seats.. Toba/Gujranwala have 10 seats.. Sialkot/Norowal/Hafizabad have 10 seats.. Kasur 5, Shekhupura 7, Okara 5, Multan 7, Kanewal 4, Sahiwal 3, Pakpattan 3…

All these areas if you go constituency by constituency you don’t see many PPP candidates winning in all these areas.

Punjab is where the election is won or lost.. PPP is going to lose big time in Punjab in coming election.

Just go through the election results of 2008.. You will find mostly PPP candidates winning in constituencies where there was no PMLN candidate and they were contesting against PMLQ directly. Go through constituencies of South Punjab.. and you will realize what is the situation in upcoming elections. The biggest dent this time for PPP will be South Punjab where the dynamics have changed in favor of PTI in Multan/Muzafargarh specially.. and Rahimyarkhan where Ahmad Mehmood will support PMLN (most probably)… PPP is in dire straits in Southern Punjab region.

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

I hope you are right here but i’ll keep my finger crossed!!! last thing i want is PPP back in govt in any form

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

and pimpish accent..

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

Jhangir Badar never got elected from any Lahore constituency as far as my memory goes back (may be back in early 90s he won the last time). Presently he is a Senator..

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

Faisalabad, Kasur, Gujranwala, Sialkot, Sheikupura, Lahore and Rawalpindi are the areas where PPP will probably not get candidates to contest elections.. because people are so much angry after 12-20 hour load shedding that it will be dangerous for any individual to go to the people and actually declare that he is asking votes for PPP government. PPP is in a very bad position particularly in these areas..!!!

Re: Zardari’s Woes: Pakistan’s Dismal Economy, an Angry Army

http://www.economist.com/node/21546884?frsc=dg|a

**Perilous journey
Pakistan has a lot going for it, but optimism about its future is nevertheless hard to sustain, says Simon Long

Feb 11th 2012 | from the print edition
**
EARLY LAST YEAR the Pakistan Business Council, a lobby group of local conglomerates and multinationals, drew up a “national economic agenda”, setting out some desperately needed reforms. It took out newspaper advertisements to press its case and made presentations to the four biggest parties in parliament. Rather to everyone’s surprise it achieved a consensus, which was to be announced on a television chat show on May 2nd. But that morning it was revealed that American commandos had killed Osama bin Laden in a town not far from Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad. Television had other priorities, and the moment passed.
**
For many in Pakistan, this anecdote is typical of the way geopolitics gets in the way of sensible policymaking. Their country, they say, has so much going for it, yet all the foreign press writes about is the dark side: warfare, terrorism, corruption and natural disasters.** Asad Umar, the Pakistan Business Council’s chairman, compares his country’s condition to that of the passengers in a cable car over a fire. They can see the lush greenery of their destination, but it is getting hot, and they cannot be sure that the cables will hold.

**This report on Pakistan will, like so much foreign reporting on the country, be looking at the flames. Pakistan is at risk of utter disaster, though probably not immediately. But, preoccupied with dousing fires, its leaders are neglecting Pakistan’s longer-term needs, or, as optimists would have it, failing to exploit the country’s tremendous potential. Before looking at Pakistan’s manifold problems, it is worth putting these optimists’ case. They normally cite five reasons for hope: demography, geography, geology, culture and democracy.
**
**The bright side
**
**Pakistan has a very young and rapidly urbanising population. Its workforce is growing by about 3% a year and its share of the total population, currently about 60%, is rising steadily, thanks to a falling birth rate. Similar demographic bulges have been accompanied by prolonged booms in East Asia and elsewhere.

Moreover, Pakistan borders the world’s two fastest-growing big economies, China and India. Its new port at Gwadar on the Arabian Sea offers another route into China. It is also the nearest seaport for much of Central Asia. The hydrocarbon riches of Turkmenistan could flow through a pipeline across Pakistan to India. And Pakistan itself is blessed with natural resources, including gas, coal and copper. It is already a cotton producer and a big exporter of textiles. Its farmers have proved remarkably resilient to successive natural disasters, but they have the potential for big increases in productivity.
**

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/articles/20120211_SRM932_0.png

Pakistanis justly point to their traditions of tolerance and hospitality. An extremist Islamist fringe should not colour views of the vast moderate majority. Nor is there any shortage of highly intelligent, articulate, cosmopolitan and enlightened leaders in business, government and the army. Ties of kinship—of loyalty to a large extended family—give Pakistani society a solidity that makes forecasts of its imminent collapse seem fanciful. As Anatol Lieven concludes in his splendid recent book, “A Hard Country”, Pakistan, “though a deeply troubled state, is also a tough one”.

**Its elected civilian government, now in office for four years, might yet become the first in Pakistan’s history to serve a full five-year term. And it has some notable achievements to its credit: the 18th amendment to the constitution restored a civilian structure and introduced a welcome devolution of power from central government. The most recent “award”, in 2010, by the National Finance Commission, which allots Pakistan’s resources to its individual provinces, managed the politically difficult feat of giving Punjab, the biggest and richest, a smaller share than its proportion of the population. Pakistan’s army, meanwhile, has driven an insurgency out of part of one province, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, and is containing it in most of the often lawless Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA).
**
**The downside
**
**But even Pakistan’s biggest boosters find it hard not to be distracted by the fires. The growing population is mostly poor and badly educated. Pakistan borders not only China, India and Iran but also Afghanistan, and is infused by the venom of the war being fought there. Much of the mineral wealth is in areas where Pakistan itself suffers from poor security, and the planned pipeline from Turkmenistan would actually cross Afghanistan. Traditional tolerance is fraying and violence spreading.
**
The president, Asif Ali Zardari, and his civilian government are far from certain to see out their terms. They have lasted this long only by backing away from every confrontation with the body that sees itself as the true representative of Pakistan’s sovereignty and, in many ways, the country’s rightful ruler: the army. Fiercely protective of their budget and big business interests, and with a veto over foreign and security policy, the generals make Pakistani “democracy” seem a stunted, sickly infant.

Even one of this democracy’s most impressive trappings, a free and vibrant press, has limits. Elements of the armed forces are believed to be behind death threats to senior journalists, which, to put it mildly, act as a dampener on the freedom of expression. Indeed, so successfully has the army merged its image with that of the nation that many commentators trumpet its views without coercion. A BBC television documentary made late last year, accusing the army of links with terrorist groups at home and in Afghanistan, led the cable companies themselves to block the BBC World television channel.
But those accusations will not go away. They have played a big part in bringing relations with America, Pakistan’s traditional ally, to a new low. And they raise serious questions about the army’s influence in domestic politics, too. It is not, as it portrays itself, the neutral arbiter of the national interest, keeping venal civilian politicians in check; rather, it pursues what it perceives as its own institutional interest.

This report will begin by considering Pakistan’s policy in Afghanistan. That will be a burning international concern as America and its NATO allies prepare to withdraw most of their 130,000 combat troops by the end of 2014 or, as American officials are now suggesting, even 18 months earlier. But it also highlights the way in which a misguided military strategy trumps policymaking, at times seeming to threaten Pakistan’s future.

Leaders of the American-dominated International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan no longer dream of a definitive defeat of the Taliban insurgency by 2015. Nor does there seem much prospect as yet of an overarching peace settlement. The “victory” now hoped for is to leave behind an Afghan government that has security forces equipped to carry on the fight, and the legitimacy to get them to do so. Compared with the hopes held for Afghanistan’s future after the swift toppling of the Taliban regime in November 2001, this looks like failure. And for that, ISAF’s commanders and their political masters have been ever more vocally blaming the malign role played by Pakistan.

Not only has it provided sanctuary from which terrorists have mounted attacks in Afghanistan. Not only is the Taliban’s most senior leadership—the Quetta* shura*—believed to be based in Pakistan. Worse, elements of the Pakistani state are accused of complicity in all this. And worse still, partly because of that complicity, Pakistan itself is prey to a fierce xenophobic Islamist insurgency. Rather than being able to declare victory in Afghanistan, a wild country of some 30m people, the West fears a nightmare: defeat in Pakistan, a country of nearly 200m that was once seen as a firm ally and a bastion of moderation.

from the print edition