Zardari in China

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Among all the bad, there are positive developments

Zardari’s current visit to China has brought many goods the investments in Energy/Power Sector, cooperation to improve railway network, transfer of knowledge and technology for better per acre yield in agriculture sector are few to mention.

Apart from above, Civil nuclear deal is one of the best, it may not be the best, but it can provide Pakistan with necessary know-how to built one of its own ( may be in next 20-30 years if not earlier).

Congrats to Zardari - The president of Pakistan for such a successful visit to friendly neighbor, Pakistani officials/high command should visit countries who have common goals/objectives and should not waste time and money in persuading west that we are not terrorists… once we have enough links/power They ( the west) will change their attitude…

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Re: Zardari in China

I agree with you. Credit should be given where its due. Zardi’s visit to China was widely covered by western media & it was indeed a successful visit.

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Re: Zardari in China

zardari khappey

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Some good results indeed, Chinese always coperate no matter who is leading Pakistan so it's not a huge surprised but we can still give Zardari some credit. Hopefully he can improve his track record, it doesn't matter if he is a crook, retard or whatever, our country needs some positive news and he has done well there.

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Re: Zardari in China

:lifey:

Allah tumhe lambee umar dien aur thumharee har nik hawish puree ho!

Zardari ka naam mitjaye! :2guns:

Bhutto was doing better in his day.

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I think we are giving just too many concessions to China without opening thee opportunities for investors who can give the maximum to Pakistan. The way we have given incentives and concessions to China they have not reciprocated the same warm feelings. Their performance in generating business in Pakistan has been dismal.

Companies, People, Ideas
China’s Pakistan Corridor
Maha Atal, 04.30.10, 08:40 AM EDT
Forbes Asia Magazine dated May 10, 2010
Balochistan is treacherous territory for many, but Beijing keeps buying its way in.

In the Pakistani province of Balochistan, South Asia and central Asia bleed into the Middle East. Bordered by Afghanistan, Iran and the Persian Gulf, and well endowed with oil, gas, copper, gold and coal reserves, Balochistan is a rich prize that should have foreign investors battering at the gates. But for a half-century it has been the exclusive playground of the Pakistani government and its state-owned Chinese partners. China would prefer it to stay that way.

China is Pakistan’s oldest military and political ally, but in the last two decades it is the economic component of the alliance that has taken center stage. Pakistan, and in particular Balochistan, is China’s physical link to its sizable investments in Iranian gas, Afghan hydropower and Gulf oil. Explains Andrew Small, a fellow at the German Marshall Fund, the Sino-Pak relationship “matters more now, because of India’s economic growth. Pakistan being a trade and energy corridor means that possible pipelines and projects [in Pakistan] have a strategic significance beyond the specific investments.” Chinese control of Pakistan’s commodities corridor can “bind India down in South Asia, restricting its capacity to operate elsewhere.”

According to the Pakistani government, Chinese companies have poured at least $15 billion into Baloch projects: an oil refinery, copper and zinc mines and a deepwater port at Gwadar, in the Gulf of Oman. “They wanted Gwadar to be another Dubai,” says Khurram Abbas, the port’s managing director, “to capture the transit trade with countries that are landlocked, like Afghanistan, and to encourage transshipment trade from the Persian Gulf to East Africa.”

China’s Tianjin Zhongbei Harbor Engineering has invested $200 million to build the first three berths and plans to invest a total of $1.6 billion to expand the port in the future. But business at Gwadar has been slow. Though the three berths have the capacity to handle $2 billion worth of cargo a year, the port saw only $700 million in 2009. “The challenge,” says Abbas, “is that Gwadar is not yet linked to the rest of the country. The government was supposed to provide road connectivity. Without roads there can be no commercial activity [in Balochistan]. And we need commercial activity, investors to set up factories around Gwadar, to get cargo for the port.”

China is taking matters into its own hands, starting to build a highway from Gwadar to the capital of Balochistan, Quetta, on the Afghan border, where it will connect to Pakistan’s national highway network, and from there to the Karakoram Highway that leads into China. China’s Harbor Engineering Corps is also working on a new airport at Gwadar, due to open in 2013.

Infrastructure is not the only challenge that Chinese investors in Balochistan face. The province is a key battleground in the wars currently threatening Pakistan. Quetta is rumored to be hiding wanted leaders from the Afghan Taliban. Small towns in the Baloch heartland, meanwhile, are a launchpad for a decades-old separatist movement that capitalizes on populist resentment of federal agencies and foreign investment.

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I agree with you, but who really want to invest in a war zone? The thing with China is that its neutral in most conflicts, and unlike west, they only have economics interests. And China is not just investing in Pakistan, but Chinese are everywhere from Burma to Africa.

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http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=36398&t=PAKISTAN+�+CHINA+++Kashgar+Gwadar+railway+line+would+give+Beijing+a+window+on+the+Persian+Gulf

PAKISTAN – CHINA Kashgar Gwadar railway line would give Beijing a window on the Persian Gulf

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Re: Zardari in China

Kashgar :e6:

My favourite place in all Xingxang was Lake Hanas and the city of Kashgar. :wub:

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This railway line has India quite worried.

Actually it was bound to happen. That’s why China invested heavily in Gwadar port project. Without China’s help this project might not have seen daylight.

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You may have a valid point, we are risking too much by having all our eggs in one basket but do we have a choice…

Western world is heavily influenced by US policies, there could have been a German company managing Gawadar but their investment comes with lot more bonds and acts like a " No-khaiz Tawaif" who wants everything but will give you “Zabani Jama Kharch”.

Pakistan have treated its Arab neighborhood same way, giving them too much concession ( KESC privatization comes to mind) but these Arabs are “Shah say zyada Shah ka Wafadar” .. same way Turks are heavily involve in Pakistan they also have limitations… so we are left with China who ask little ( it seems like little when compare to demands of others) and deliver on international front…

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Pait main MaRooR uTh rahay haiN shayad....

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Actually we under estimate Pakistan's potential too much...

You are absolutely right about the Arabs. Remember also the privatization of PTCL for which even today we have been paid nothing in spite of the fact that we gave them this company for practically nothing.

As far as China is concerned we are too much brain washed from our childhood... China like any other country is driven solely by their own interests... what general people don't know about Pak/China relationship:

1) We import more than 15 billion dollars goods from China. In addition to this there is an estimated 5 billion dollars of smuggled goods from Khost border. Our markets are flooded with cheap Chinese sub standard electronic goods/toys/ladies fabrics/shoes/and whatever you can imagine from Karachi to Khyber. Remember when Chinese Premiere visited Pakistan, he visited the warehouse of Koochi Khan, the big smuggler of ladies fabric and electronic goods on Raiwind Road...

2) Pakistan exports 4 billion dollars worth of industrial raw materials to China from cotton yarn to leather for their own value added exports.

3) No Chinese company has ever invested in manufacturing or exports from Pakistan. Chinese only invest in Pakistan through lucrative concessions given to them for nothing.

4) For a normal pakistani guy it's much easier to get US visa compared to Chinese visa. Chinese government is very suspicious about Pakistani people because they are afraid that if they allow Pakistanis to travel to China freely, they may infect the Chinese muslims with religious fanaticism. You can not imagine how difficult it is to get a visa to travel to China for a genuine businessman from Pakistan.

We Pakistanis are just too naive and emotional... and our government does not look after our interests.

As far as return on foreign investments in Pakistan are concerned, if you check the results of these foreign investors in Pakistan, Pakistan is a heaven for these foreign investors. In any case do you believe what China has invested over the years to finance US debt worth trillions of dollars... they will ever see this money again... The investments China made in Pakistan are gold compared to them...!!!

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I agree with almost all the points ( visa part was bit surprising, i have visited China quite a few times and they have shown no concern in issuing it, may be things have changed now)

Chinese have a different agenda, they do invest, but they do not invest in the industrial side... y... it is simple, they are not as stupid as US is, i.e. creating industrial havens in other countries and ending up importing finished goods... which i believe we should also do... but unfortunately that is the not the case for Pakistan and as you have rightly mention that Pakistan's main exports are raw-products.. it is not limited to China, it is the main export product of Pakistan... and there is nothing any govt. have done to change it...

Trust me, i know that if it is not the Chinese interest, the Yellow Army will never show up to save us.. ( we have seen it in 71 war)

But there are something which we can get from China.. and that is technology, know-how... and i believe that Zardari's current trip to China has imported technology to certain extent...

I agree to the part that we are dump-house of Cheap Chinese product and i think we have potential to turn the things around...and InshaAllah we'll going to do it someday... all we need is ground to stand.. it is like a wet bird needing some time, space and protection from Cat....

On top of everything, Chinese have different theory all together, they buy minerals/mines/strategic locations in return of strategic support in the international business... we having neighbors like India ( where election result depends of the relationship with Pakistan) who is set bound to destroy us and and then we have invited the bosses of all evils US in Afghanistan.. i think we need muscle man to keep the dogs away...

Overall i agree with you that we shouldn't be giving to much concessions to Chinese, we need to create a balance...

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Re: Zardari in China

"China dosti kay nam pur choona lagata hia"! This was the remarks passed by a WAPDA Engineer whenever 3 Chinese unit of the Jamshoro Power plant went out of order during my 5 months audit in 2000. The two Japanese units hardly gave any problem then.

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Re: Zardari in China

^ there were also these 'bad' locomotives that China sent to Pakistan... But then again, we accepted them...

Also, hats off to the stupidity of PTV, they were presenting the fact that some stupid unknown street in Shanghai had traffic blocked just because Zardari and his daughter was passing through. Yes, I am sure the people of China would be most thrilled to get their lives at standstill and delayed because the great president of Pakistan had to pass. Some things never change.

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Chinese are very shrewd businessmen and hardly give anything easily.

On top of that chinese comanies are known not to employ local people in local projects, they will bring their own staff except for chaprasis, they also do not invest in local infrastructure.

However, one edge that china has over the other investors in Pakistan, is its international standing, which can come handy in security council.

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Global politics is not practiced for the sake of friendship. There have to be some give and takes. Pakistan and China help each other not because we "like" each other, but because we find our interests match with each other in various areas.
To talk of nothing but "friendship" for the sake of friendship is just plain naive and frankly, stupid.
China will support Pakistan only upto the point where it is in its own interest, and Pakistan should do the same. There is absolutely nothing wrong in this.

The same applies to all our other friends; America, Saudia, Iran, Jordan, etc.

In fact if representatives of our country give too much concession to any "friend" of ours then they would actually be disloyal to Pakistani people. It is the right of Pakistani people that their government get them the best deal for their money.
And in this context, it is sad to learn about what happened in privatization of several companies for the sake of "friendship" to our friends.

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Re: Zardari in China

Zardari said to the Chinese government, “The process & agenda of the ‘ONE WORLD order’ cannot be attained with*out* china’s agreement. So china must be more supportive of the idea in order to achieve it.”

Which proves that zardari is member of the same team which is spreading this whole fasaad & fitna to bring the new ‘ONE WORLD’ order. I don’t think this ‘ONE WORLD’ mafia is any sympathetic to the sufferings of Pakistani people (Proof: Massive drive of massacre of Pakistani people through bombs, sinking Pak economy more & more under foreign loans, bringing Pakistani nation close to slavery, etc.) so no way I would believe that anything he does as the president of Pakistan is going to be good for pakistan. But he is just forced to do it anyway because he has no choice. Either follow the orders of his masters without resistence or die.