I was just discussing with my cousin…she said Zan, Zar aur Zameen * …insaan kee niyat kee sab se bari dushman hoti hae…
That was her mo’qaf…Mine was that niyat kee dushman Zan, Zar aur Zameen naheen balkay insaan kee apni niyat aur imaan kee kamzori hoti hae…
do share your views on this topic 
Zan = female
Zar = wealth
Zameen = land
*
zan, zar or zameen har fasaad ki jar hoti hai....
this is what has been said for centuries....
and it has quite some weight to it....
but dont u think the JARR is not these though...the FASAD KI JARR is the fault in the niyat...?
agar kisi ki niyat theek ho to zan, zar aur zameen, ya duniya kee koi bhee cheez us ka kia bigaar sakti haen?
traditionally everyone says this. and it does sound reasonable too. you know, all problems in this world are due to these 3 things. Zan being the first very correctly, every man fights and longs for a woman. he wants to be rich and strong so he could have the women of choice...the worlds first murder was after a woman...Zar second, who doesnt want money?all misery and crime for money. Zammeen, fighting for territory...politics...international diplomacy, wars...
BUT! i agree with you Irem, it's the person's own 'niyat' and frame of mind that matters most. if youre righteous and strong and straight, nothing can change your course and make one evil!
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
zan, zar or zameen har fasaad ki jar hoti hai....
this is what has been said for centuries....
and it has quite some weight to it....
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So are we concluding that "men" are the cause of fasaad? or we saying that this also applicable to women?
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*Originally posted by irem: *
but dont u think the JARR is not these though...the FASAD KI JARR is the fault in the niyat...?
agar kisi ki niyat theek ho to zan, zar aur zameen, ya duniya kee koi bhee cheez us ka kia bigaar sakti haen?
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kissi ki niyyat theek ho to fasaad hota hee nahin hai....
we r talking of why the niyyat goes wrong????
what r the reasons for it....
those reasons, of niyyat going wrong, r zar, zan, zameen....
someone suggested, in one of our disccuions, that 'power' too was a reason....
but someone else pointed out that greed for power is also an indirect greed for one of these three....
Chachoo: u missed the discussion, start over and maybe u'll reach a more intelligent conclusion....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
kissi ki niyyat theek ho to fasaad hota hee nahin hai....
we r talking of why the niyyat goes wrong????
what r the reasons for it....
those reasons, of niyyat going wrong, r zar, zan, zameen....
someone suggested, in one of our disccuions, that 'power' too was a reason....
but someone else pointed out that greed for power is also an indirect greed for one of these three....
Chachoo: u missed the discussion, start over and maybe u'll reach a more intelligent conclusion....
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Supporting you mughal sahab I have to say that it is "Zan" that is the root, zar and zameen are complementary. Irem niyyaton ke biggar jaane ke yeh reasons bante hain...u are right agar niyyat bigre hee naan to phir to yeh teen kuch naheen kar sakte. Fitna pjailaane wae anasir mein se yeh teen hee hain jo ke kabil e zikar hain, as it is said since centuries.
History has proved even saints, leaders, the greatest ppl have shaked at some points. Even prophets made the mistakes (prophets r innocent, un galtiyoon mein bhi shayed koi maslihat hi hogi).
My point is, if each individual was that strong in niyat, we all would be saints.
So now basically we have a good niyat, us mein koi futoor nahi, but Satan is also doing his work… jo Satan Bibi Hawa ko behka ker un ke zariye Hazrat adam se wo kaam le sakta hai kia aap se aur mujh se koi galat kaam nahi lay sakta ??
I m not saying we r too weak… we can fight back & handle him, but these 3 r sure one of the best tools satan can use to knock ya down.
I dont know if your cousin is Pakhtun or not but that is an old Pakhtun saying.
Sultan Suri - nope she’s not pakhtun, but plz share the pakhtun saying with us if you can i’d love to hear it
JB haanji u r rite… 
scary huh :S
Allah hum sab ko shaitaan se bachayay inshallah :S
Seedha Saadha ji, being a ZAN myself 
no comments 
yes they r the reasons but still the problem is OUR WEAK HEARTS i think dont u think? :S
armughal bhai, ahan i c what u r saying…
btw i think Chaachoo is saying that Zan obviously wont be a cause of evil for women so are we saying that men only commit sins…? i think thats what he saying…am i right Chaachoo ji? 
to answer that question, i think the saying is just a saying and shud be taken symbolically rather than literally
Haris…true…thanks for the response bro
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*Originally posted by Seedha Saada: *
it is "Zan" that is the root, zar and zameen are complementary.
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SS,
i guess you may be right.
Irem it is said that if a Pakhtun is ever in a feud it is over these 3 things Zan, Zar aw Zameen.
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*Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *
Irem it is said that if a Pakhtun is ever in a feud it is over these 3 things Zan, Zar aw Zameen.
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nahin yaar!!!! sachee????
sachee mochee yaaar ;- )
Thank you Irem… I should have explained it better…
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*Originally posted by irem: *
Seedha Saadha ji, being a ZAN myself :-D no comments :p
yes they r the reasons but still the problem is OUR WEAK HEARTS i think dont u think? :S
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You are talking about weak hearts powerful enough to shake the existence of mightiest of men. Aurat, I must say in view of my readings and observations, is the pivot on which all good and bad things revolve around in this world. Satan, all philosophy contains, plays through them and gets his mission fulfilled. Ofcoure I am referring to most of the cases, NOT all of them are the tool satan can easily use.
Lets debate what a woman wants in this world irem. Lets say something meaningful about our natures. Take my word, you would be hearing the truest of revelations about men from this Seedha Saada.
wonder if "zan" is an important factor in case of gays as well.... :p
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seedha Saada: *
Satan, all philosophy contains, plays through them and gets his mission fulfilled. Ofcoure I am referring to most of the cases, NOT all of them are the tool satan can easily use.
Lets debate what a woman wants in this world irem. Lets say something meaningful about our natures. Take my word, you would be hearing the truest of revelations about men from this Seedha Saada.
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Man, are you serious? You really think like that? So, the so called Satan can manifest HIMSELF through women only? Only women have the capability of scheming and poisoning minds? If u really think so, I gotta say, u are ingnorant as hell.
interesting topic. but Irem jee kya yea PUNJABI tradition may be hein..cuz these are all most important values of PashtunWali.
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*Originally posted by Chandbeti: *
Man, are you serious? You really think like that? So, the so called Satan can manifest HIMSELF through women only? Only women have the capability of scheming and poisoning minds? If u really think so, I gotta say, u are ingnorant as hell.
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For our part of fall its women whom satan uses as tool, its vice versa when viewed from ur angle. Scientifically speaking, our genetic composition is different. While you can control, we can not and that makes it more women thing in the this sordid affair. True I am ignorant :-)