Most Pakistani friends will not eat ‘outside’ or ‘non-zabiha’ meat like publix or Mcdonalds, but most of my arab muslim friends will???
mind you that both groups I am speaking about are on the same plateau in terms of Islam!
why does such a distincition exist?
what do you guys do?
There is difference of opinion about Halal meat issue between scholars. Most scholars from Indo/Pak do not consider outside meat as Halal, whearas other mostly Arabs have different opinion. I think it might answer your question. For details, go to www.binoria.org
Abrar
I would have to say its only because of Pakistani upbringing. I, being a Muslims & Pakistani, don't bother for zabiha because to me the meat from the "people of the book" is as good as a zabiha.
I have asked many people and have researced myslef on this topic time and again, and I have been satisfied by all the opinions and have used my own logic to come to the conclusion that "ahle kitab" meat is permissble under any existing conditions. Permitted no pork and stuff has been added to stuff.
The problem with the Pakistani family is that they usually dont know about it. The kids are brain-washed since they are little about only one thing (those brought up in the western world). However, the parents dont put it in their minds how important it is to pray 5 times a day and in the masjid. Or for the sisters, to wear Hijab and for the brothers to dress modestly. NO. the emphasis has shifted to a issue which does not need to be amde an issue because "ahle kitab" food is permissble unto us no matter how they slaughter it.
but how can you be sure that it is food slautered from the people of the book?
Take the general population of USA.
Dear K2PK,
This is an excellent question. I believe that certain Muslims living in the West need to legitimize certain behaviour which may be deemed un-Islamic and do so by "inventing" their own brand of Islam. In my opinion, Muslims are permitted to eat meat which is slaughtered in the name of God (specifically the mono-theistic God).
"He hath forbidden you only carrion, and blood, and swineflesh, and that which hath been immolated to (the name of) any other than Allah." (2:173)
Here it is clear what is forbidden - carrion (or already dead meat), swineflesh (pig), and meat which is not killed in the name of "God" (this would eliminate all meats slaughtered strictly for profit without the recitation of the name of God during slaughter).
"But he who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (QS. 2:173)
Here it is indicated that you may eat meat, which is not slaughtered in the name of Allah, if "driven by necessity". Some living in the West argue that because accessibility to Halal or Kosher (Jewish) meat shops is limited they are forced to eat un-Halal meats. This of course is up to an individual's judgment - who is "driven to necessity" or not? Personally I believe that access to Halal meat in the West has grown substantially, and legitimizing these practices by citing this verse is very weak.
1) This verse provides some specific guidelines for lawful and unlawful, (notice the significant emphasis on the humane treatment of animals and criticism of brutatlity towards living things):
"Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination. This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (QS. 5:3)
2) Here the food of the "People of the Book" is made lawful to Muslims (read note below verse):
"This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them." (QS. 5:5)
Note: Today Jewish kosher meat is slaugtered in the name of God. In my opinion the meat of Christians is no longer lawful to Muslims, unless it is killed in the name of God (which it no longer is) - and this view is quite clear from the verses below.
3) More warnings to eat meat slaughtered only with Allah's name:
"Eat of that over which the name of Allah hath been mentioned, if ye are believers in His revelations. (QS. 6:118)
"How should ye not eat of that over which the name of Allah hath been mentioned, when He hath explained unto you that which is forbidden unto you unless ye are compelled thereto. But lo! many are led astray by their own lusts through ignorance. Lo! thy Lord, He is Best Aware of the transgressors." (QS. 6:119)
"And eat not of that whereon Allah's name hath not been mentioned, for lo! it is abomination. Lo! the devils do inspire their minions to dispute with you. But if ye obey them, ye will be in truth idolaters." (QS. 6:121)
"He hath forbidden for you only carrion and blood and swineflesh and that which hath been immolated in the name of any other than Allah; but he who is driven thereto, neither craving nor transgressing, lo! then Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (QS. 16:115)
"And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood: "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so that ye invent a lie against Allah. Lo! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed." (QS. 16:116)
It is evident from these verses that meat lawful to Muslims must be slaughtered in the name of God. There is a tremendous amount of Fiqh on this subject, regarding the method of slaughter and the technical aspects, which I am not aware of.
In terms of reasonings behind this requirement: It is my opinion that Islam, by requiring this method of slaughter, has:
1) Demonstrated the sanctity of life. Animals are living beings and their life to is precious. Humans can consume animals, only when they slaughter them with respect and with reverence to the Creator. In Islam hunting for sport is forbidden - "killing for fun and sport" is not lawful. Animals can only be slaughtered for a source of food and sustenance. And furthermore - they should not be slaughtered or consumed in excess - for as the Quran states "Eat of the good things We have provided for your sustenace, but commit no excess therein, lest My Wrath should justly descend on you: and those on whom descends My Wrath do perish indeed." (20:81) The "excess" with which meat is consumed in the west is quite disgusting.
2)Islam has graced animals and living things with a telos (a reason for being and existing). Animals are not solely created for the purpose of human consumption in Islam. The Qur'an in different areas acknowledges the role of life on earth, the interconnectedness of living things, how Allah has created them in "communities" and how they interact together to sustain life. In many respects Islam recognizes what environmentalists call the "ecosystem".
3)Islam challenges "factory farming" practices which relegate the roles of animals to a "means to an end". Animals are not only food in this respect - the way they are treated in the factory farms. They are mistreated, abused, herded into small shelters, fed steroids and poisons - there sole purpose becomes the profit they generate. Islam opposes such treatment of animals (this is another reason to avoid eating un-halal meats, which are the product of factory farms, which abuse animals). Allah abhors such abuse of His creation, and so should we. Allah's creation are a sign of His greatness and we should respect that and not lose sight of His signs.
I hope this helps you and I would encourage you to read the verses in the Quran yourself. Good luck!
Achtung ;)
"Say: Have ye considered what provision Allah hath sent down for you, how ye have made of it lawful and unlawful ? Hath Allah permitted you, or do ye invent a lie concerning Allah ?" (QS. 10:59)
I just realized that my post (above) is quite long. If you wish to spare yourself some time just read the last three points (there important). If you don't trust me and require evidence from the Quran read whats above that.
Achtung ;)
Assalam-o-Alaicum Muslim brothers & Sisters
In religon( Islam), we have been asked to investigate, ask questions if we do not know. We ask opinion of a Medical doctor, if we are sick, opinion of a lawer if we are involve in a legal matter, why not ask Islamic Scholars, if we do not know about a matter which requires knowlodge of religon. It is wrong to say that people of Pakistan do not know about our problems ( western). If not all of them, at least I know scholars of Islam are well aware of our problem. They investigate the matter, and they have come up with the conclusion, according to Quran and Sunnah, about meat in our grocery stores( not slaughtered in the name of Allah) is not halal (not Zabeeha). Above post also have provided evidences from Quran. May Allah guide us all. There might be difference of opinion among ourselves, and you are free to choose opinion of other scholars, but never say that other scholars are wrong or other people are ignorant.
May Allah guide us
Eid Mubarak to all
Abrar
I read all the posts above this Homid has brought a good point, achtung has provided long long details but it has nothing in it.
Here is my reponce
Any meat which is slaughtered by an Aihl-i-kitab is Halaal
I won't provide you long long details here but I will ask you a few simple questions.
Has Islam allowed us to eat the meat from an ahil-i-kitab person?
Yes.
k2pk asked that how do you know that a person is muslim or not. So my brother, Hazoor has said that ziyaada shak na kiya karo kiyoon kay yeh kufar ki taraf lay jaata hay. secondly, it is said that don't try to find objections in the matter of islam.
Did Prophet Muhammad (SAW) eat meat from a non-muslim?
Yes
Most of you should know the event when a jew woman sent meat of rabbit to Hazoor (SAW) which was poisened. Hazoor (SAW) was going to eat that meat but Allah revieled to him that poison was mixed in it, so he stoped. In fact a Sahabi (RA) ate some of it by that time and as a result he died. So why do you think Hazoor (SAW) was eating that meat despite the fact that it was from a Yahoodi?
Don't make islam hard for people. God has made it simple, so let it be simple.
I live in Toronto and we buy meat from halaal shops because it is easily available. So our first preference is that meat. But I don't feel bad when I go to Mcdonalds or KFC.
Those who feel that the name of the God is not recited when the animal was killed shall say TAQBEER when they eat such meat. This is what i do when I eat from KFC or Mcdonalds.
I HOPE THIS WILL CLEAR THE MATTER
MIRZA YASIR
[This message has been edited by mirzayasir (edited March 26, 1999).]
Mirza Yasir wrote: "...achtung has provided long long details but it has nothing in it."
My "long long" details are from the Qur'an which takes precedence over Hadith (which you used to support your argument). It is clear from the Qur'anic verses that only meat which is slaughtered in the name of God is lawful for Muslims.
"Eat of that over which the name of Allah hath been mentioned, if ye are believers in
His revelations." (QS. 6:118)
"He hath forbidden you only carrion, and blood, and swineflesh, and that which hath been immolated (sacrificed) to (the name of) any other than Allah." (2:173)(read above post for more)
This would include Kosher (Jewish) meat, which is lawful to eat for Muslims, but not meat slaughtered in "factory farms". Farms in which animals are mis-treated and when it comes to slaughter they are brutally abused and subjected to pain. Jewish law requires meat to be slaughtered in the name of God, similar to Islamic law - and with respect for life.
Mirza Yasir wrote: "Don't make islam hard for people. God has made it simple, so let it be simple."
Islam is simple, and halal slaughter too is simple. Saying God's name over meat which is already dead (as you advocate we do with food from fast food chains) negates the purpose of halal slaughter - that being respect for the sanctity of life.
"Al Shaddad Bin Aous has quoted this tradition of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.) "God calls for mercy in everything, so be merciful when you kill and when you slaughter, sharpen your blade to relieve its pain"."
Captive bolt stunning as practiced in Western factory farms does not call for "mercy" - it is quite the opposite. Animals are treated as a "means to an end" (the end being profits), the slaughter they are subjected to is the furthest away from the slaughter of Muslims.
Achtung ;)
"Say: Have ye considered what provision Allah hath sent down for you, how ye have made of it lawful and unlawful ? Hath Allah permitted you, or do ye invent a lie concerning Allah ?" (QS. 10:59)
[This message has been edited by Achtung (edited March 27, 1999).]
Id jewish meat is halaal then why not the meat by christians?
And as I said, when you eat meat, say taqbeer.
MIRZA YASIR
[email protected]
Homepages
mirzayasir.paklinks.com
pafcollchaklala.paklinks.com
Homeopathy Message Board
This is a message board which I created. Here you can post your diseases along with your symptoms and get a homeopathic prescription in 2-3 days. Its Free! Its amazing! Try it.
http://mirzahomeomain.paklinks.com
Mirza Yasir wrote: "If Jewish meat is halaal then why not the meat by christians?"
Meat slaughtered by both Jews and Christians is lawful as long as it is "sacrificed in the name of God." (Qur'an 5:3, 6:118, 6:119, 6:121, 16:115) Currently meat slaughtered by Christians is not sacrificed in the name of God. It is slaughtered for profit. Meat slaughtered by Jews on the other hand, is sacrificed in the name of God. Thus Kosher meat is lawful for Muslims, while meat slaughtered by Christians is lawful (only when it is slaughtered in the name of God) - which is a practice which Christians have given up.
Christian rules regarding slaughter of meat are simlar to Qur'anic requirements: "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled..." (Acts 15:29). Yet they have given up these practices. And meat used in fast food outlets and sold in grocery stores (in the west) is slaughtered in factory farms which inflict tremendous pain (both psychological and physical) on animals. The rule is simple, if a Christian, Muslim or Jew slaughters meat in the name of God it is permissible - otherwise it is not. Currently halal and kosher meat are slaughtered in the name of God - Christians have no equivalent practice for slaughter.
Mirza Yasir wrote: "And as I said, when you eat meat, say taqbeer."
The meat you are eating has not been sacrificed in the name of God. The requirement is for the meat to be "immolated" or sacrificed (Qur'an 2:173, 16:115 and 5:3) in the name of God. You are merely reciting Allah's name over meat which is already dead. This negates the purpose of "Islamic requirements" for slaughter - the animal must be living and in the process of slaughter the name of God must be recited. Animals are not suppose to be herded together, stunned with a gun, electrocuted, chopped up while still half alive with machine blades, skinned, ground up and than packaged, than cooked than sitting on your dinner table with all the seasonings and garnish you enjoy - and than finally you recite the name of Allah.
I am not being judgmental of those who choose to eat non-kosher or non-halal meat - they have a right to that choice. But personally, after researching the topic, I can't see their practices being considered "permissible" or "lawful" under the guidance of the Qur'an.
There are hadith's which contradict the Qur'anic revelations - this is where the confusion lies. Hadith's stating that the Prophet ate meat of Jews or Christians at that time are understandable, since meat of the "People of the Book" was slaughtered in the name of God at that time. Other hadith's regarding the Prophet reciting the name of Allah over already dead meat however are questionable in my opinion. They contradice the Qur'anic verses (2:173, 5:3, 5:5, 6:118, 6:119, 6:121, and 16:115).
Achtung ;)
[This message has been edited by Achtung (edited March 27, 1999).]
And why does meat become halaal if it's prepared by a jew? After all, food is food! Bon appetit!
These kind of customs r sheer stupidity and adhering to it is the dumbest thing u can do in the 21st century!!
Queer, I think Achtung has a point. Please read his post (Mar. 26, portion about sanctity of life) carefully.That is a very good interpretation of 'halal'. Just don't call some custom 'stupid' out of the hat.
Please respect the sensitivity of people who follow a given religion though you may agree with none. Not all of them are fanatics.
[This message has been edited by PG (edited March 28, 1999).]
PG,
I SALUTE YOU!!! I JUST WISH A COUPLE OF THE OTHER GUYS START THINKING AS YOU DO.