You've got to be kidding me!

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Freaking idiots. So now Iran may have played a role in the events on 11 September 2001 in the US. Just like Iraq and al Qaeda were sleeping in the same bed, just like Saddam Hussein was about to unleash a nuclear holocaust in the world unless the civilized world stepped in, just like Hans Blix wasn’t doing his job properly, just like Iraq was an evil evil rogue state hell-bent on inflicting global instabilities. Just like all of that was a lie, so here we are being spoon-fed another lie. Just how stupid do they think we are ???

US ‘exploring Iranian 9/11 role’, BBC, 19 July 2004

President George W Bush has said the US is exploring whether Iran had a role in the 11 September 2001 terror attacks. “We’re digging into the facts to see if there was one,” Mr Bush told reporters at the White House. His comments come after the CIA’s acting chief said some of the hijackers passed through Iran, but there was no evidence Iran was officially involved.

It comes ahead of the publication this week of a final report by a US commission of inquiry into the attacks.

“We will continue to look and see if the Iranians were involved,” said Mr Bush. “As to direct connections with 11 September, we’re digging into the facts to determine if there was one.”

On Sunday, the CIA’s acting director, John McLaughlin, told US television that the CIA had known for some time that eight of the hijackers travelled through Iran. “We have ample evidence of people being able to move back and forth across that terrain,” Mr McLaughlin told Fox News Sunday. But he added: “However, I would stop there and say we have no evidence that there is some sort of official sanction by the government of Iran for this activity. We have no evidence that there is some sort of official connection between Iran and 9/11.”

Iran acknowledges some of the hijackers may have crossed its borders, but says they would have done so illegally.

US media has said the final report by the 9/11 inquiry will say that from October 2000, it was official Iranian policy to allow al-Qaeda members into and out of the country, without having their passports stamped.

An Iranian stamp would have made the operatives subject to closer scrutiny by US border officials.

Washington has long regarded Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism, branded part of an “axis of evil” by President Bush.

Mr Bush also accused Iran of “harbouring al-Qaeda leadership” and demanded al-Qaeda operatives in Iran be handed over to their native countries.

Iran said last weekend it had taken action to dismantle al-Qaeda’s network in the country, and dismissed the latest US criticism.

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"We're digging into the facts to see if there was one," Mr Bush told reporters.

umm yeah hoped they had done that in Iraq's case as well i.e finding facts before waging a war. Last nights Jay Leno also cracked a joke about this :D

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drat i missed Leno :p

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by JaGGa: *
*"We're digging into the facts to see if there was one," Mr Bush told reporters.**

[/QUOTE]

Uh huh and if we don't find one, no worries, we'll make up one :D

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I echo that thread title. You have got to be kidding me. What could you or anyone else find objectionable about digging into the facts. Apparently, the final report of the 911 Commission will ** "will say that from October 2000, it was official Iranian policy to allow al-Qaeda members into and out of the country, without having their passports stamped. " ** This is the 911 Commission, NOT BUSH, that is reporting this. Seems to me like the 911 Commission Report was pretty well received by the anti-Bushies when the lack of a direct connection between the 911 terrorists and Iraq was reported. Now, the 911 Commission Report is being trashed before its final release and tied somehow to Bush because it says something you may not like.

Try to tone down your hysteria for a minute. If true, I doubt that Iran permitting 911 attackers to travel through Iran secretly is going to lead to an invasion of Iran by the US. We're a little occupied right now, I think. If Iran knew of a planned attack and let them through to make it easier for them, I'm sure some extremely appropriate diplomatic outrage will be expressed and then we'll quietly and covertly support the democratic movement in Iran just as we've been doing for quite some time now.

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Iranian invasion is a little far fetched.. at most there will be sanctions.. but that too wouldn't be well received by the arms manufacturers and other corporations who would wanna sell to them.. but then again.. maybe they'll benefit from sanctions when Iran can't buy stuff anywhere but from them underhand... ont thing is certain.. pointing the crosshairs towards them will get them to increase defense spending.

since Iranians haven't been 'castrated' by sanctions and No Fly Zones etc and have had Russian military support .. i doubt if an invasion would be prudent.. u know.. unlike Saddam.. they can hit back ..

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by myvoice: *
I echo that thread title. You have got to be kidding me. What could you or anyone else find objectionable about digging into the facts. Apparently, the final report of the 911 Commission will * "will say that from October 2000, it was official Iranian policy to allow al-Qaeda members into and out of the country, without having their passports stamped. " ** This is the 911 Commission, NOT BUSH, that is reporting this. Seems to me like the 911 Commission Report was pretty well received by the anti-Bushies when the lack of a direct connection between the 911 terrorists and Iraq was reported. Now, the 911 Commission Report is being trashed before its final release and tied somehow to Bush because it says something you may not like.

Try to tone down your hysteria for a minute. If true, I doubt that Iran permitting 911 attackers to travel through Iran secretly is going to lead to an invasion of Iran by the US. We're a little occupied right now, I think. If Iran knew of a planned attack and let them through to make it easier for them, I'm sure some extremely appropriate diplomatic outrage will be expressed and then we'll quietly and covertly support the democratic movement in Iran just as we've been doing for quite some time now.
[/QUOTE]

OK so now we are going to make up more false "evidence", why change the trend as long as sheeple keep buying it keep feeding them lies. Quite a strategy.

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[QUOTE]
then we'll quietly and covertly support the democratic movement in Iran just as we've been doing for quite some time now.
[/QUOTE]

Awww, I thought we would never do such a thing. Then you wonder why people blame US for the ills of their nation. That my friend is a proof, as long as US keeps meddling with internal affairs of other countries there will always be folks who will despise it and use that as a motive to recruit troops for that cause.

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^ It is all for a good cause... if they are stupid enough not to realize what is good for them then the big bro USA will shove it up their arses until it makes to their brains ... good approach, see how wonderfully it has worked out so far in other parts of the world...

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^ it has worked out quite wonderfully in Pakistan. Just look at the razing of afghan refugee camps byt eh Pakistani army. Terrorists are hiding there… :jhanda:

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^ give it some time and we'll see how wonderfully that will workout too ..

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So Kaleem, bhai. Now you think the 911 Commission is making up evidence. Is this similar to your thoughts about the US vetoing UN Resolutions to end sanctions in Iraq or is there some fact you have to support your viewpoint?

As to countries "meddling with internal affairs of other countries," I think about every country does that don't they? Every government contract, every loan, every grant of aid, etc. is a form of meddling. "Meddling" is not the issue....It's how you meddle that matters. A little covert assistance here and there. Broadcasting "subversive" messages of democracy and freedom. Giving money to opposition parties. Imposing trade restraints or opening trade opportunities. All of these things are fair game in my book.

Iran is eventually going to implode of its own accord and I'm all in favor of helping that happen sooner rather than later. This time, the student led, intellectual led "revolution" will bring with it the end of clerical rule and a more free and more democratic form of government. The less open and apparent US involvement, the better. That would just slow down the process.

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Matty, you have to be able to think about the long term consequences. It might help US for the short term, but will create more problems in the long run. Public sentiment against US in pakistan is on the rise, these are nota ll terrorists I am talking about.... I am talking about decent, educated people. When they realize that there leaders are the problems and want to change the system...here comes the big brother and forces the dictator on you.

That same policy you talk about gave us Mujahideen, Talebans, Osama and Al-Qaeda. If we continue down this path we will create more problems for ourselves not to mention the rest of the world.

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[QUOTE]
As to countries "meddling with internal affairs of other countries," I think about every country does that don't they? Every government contract, every loan, every grant of aid, etc. is a form of meddling. "Meddling" is not the issue....It's how you meddle that matters. A little covert assistance here and there. Broadcasting "subversive" messages of democracy and freedom. Giving money to opposition parties. Imposing trade restraints or opening trade opportunities. All of these things are fair game in my book.
[/QUOTE]

MV, bhaijaan are u sure that is all we do? Do we really stop there? We dont ever back assasinations (sp) do we? Please, tell me again how we always have people's interest in mind....albeit its US people ...we dont give a damn about the host nation.

As far as your comment regarding 911 commission, I never said they made up evidence, its Bush administration. Tell me why should we believe any thing that he says from now on.

I am sure it gives you pleasure when things blow up in other countries , does'nt it? You sure did not like it when it happened here, why do you wish death and destruction on other people?

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[QUOTE]
So Kaleem, bhai. Now you think the 911 Commission is making up evidence. Is this similar to your thoughts about the US vetoing UN Resolutions to end sanctions in Iraq or is there some fact you have to support your viewpoint?
[/QUOTE]

MV, do yourself a favor find the book Iraq: In the eye of storm from Dilip Hiro...maybe you will learn something that is not fed to you through talk radio. Trust me it will debunk all notions you have regarding the so called "humane" efforts of US. Also, you fail to answer my question on why did US blow up water and sewage systems in Baghdad in 1991...causing unspeakable destruction and disease among the iraqis.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
MV, bhaijaan are u sure that is all we do? Do we really stop there? We dont ever back assasinations (sp) do we? Please, tell me again how we always have people's interest in mind....albeit its US people ...we dont give a damn about the host nation.

[/QUOTE]

You ought to try to stick to the topic and discussion at hand. Which is Iran. I've explained what I think is appropriate "meddling" there. So far, I don't think it is US policy to support the assassination of anyone in Iran. I wouldn't support it. Don't think we need such a policy. In fact, I think such a policy would be counter-productive to what we would like to see happen there.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
As far as your comment regarding 911 commission, I never said they made up evidence, its Bush administration. Tell me why should we believe any thing that he says from now on.
[/QUOTE]

Fact is, the reported link of 911 to Iran (such as it is) is not something that came from Bush. It's coming from the 911 Commission. So don't go off on a tangent saying Bush is making it up. If someone is making it up, it's the 911 Commission.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
I am sure it gives you pleasure when things blow up in other countries , does'nt it? You sure did not like it when it happened here, why do you wish death and destruction on other people?
[/QUOTE]

You need to learn the difference between "figurative" and "literal." I don't wish death and destruction to befall anyone in Iran. Their last revolution was relatively peaceful. I hope their next one is too.

As to your suggested reading material, if that's where you "learned" the US vetoed UN Resolutions seeking the end of Iraq sanctions, I'll pass. UN records are the best source don't you think?

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Why does it not surprise me? I did not expect you to open your mind and learn something new. Dilip only spent 10 years in that area, met a lot of influential people of that region and many of them who worked for UN (but were actually supplying information to US).

I am sticking to the topic which is Iran and US meddling in their internal affairs (you are the one who brought that in).

Of course you never wish death on any one, I forgot you guys have a fancy name for it...you call it collateral damage.

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This is pathetic first the Amerikkans and there useless intellegence accused iraq now they accusing iran.

Amerikkan intellegence and credibility is as dubious as OJ simpsons not guilty verdict!