Jannu like I said before, dont try to play with our emotions and hope it'll awaken the feelings. Put forth a solution. The damn thing today is that the one who tries to do something good is put down by fellow muslims. Like I said, put forward smart little steps that each of us can take. Lead, be organized in your approach.
Open up a thread, brainstorm, tell people how they can make a little difference, really, because right now you aren't being any better than me, or any others amongst us.
[quote]
Originally posted by ammarr:
*Jannu like I said before, dont try to play with our emotions and hope it'll awaken the feelings. Put forth a solution. The damn thing today is that the one who tries to do something good is put down by fellow muslims. Like I said, put forward smart little steps that each of us can take. *Lead, be organized in your approach.
Open up a thread, brainstorm, tell people how they can make a little difference, really, because right now you aren't being any better than me, or any others amongst us.**
[/quote]
Been there.... done that. Talk to Fraudia. Check my thread on what your are suggesting in culture forum, check with other guppies who were part of the "clud" that I used to email when responding to the local media. I called the radio stations every day for three months starting the night of the attack. I have done what you are suggesting.
I can post links to that thread in Culture forum where I wanted to get a group of people together so we could to just that. Thing is that everyone's busy. I was even asked by one senior admin of the site to be removed from my distribution list. My responses to the media were becoming a nuisence to that person. I posted links to the web sites that listed newspapers and media around the world.
I discussed with guppies on how we should target the local media and respond to their false allegations. I have done my bit. I had not one single person who tried to follow. I got tired. I gave up.
Join the club Jannu?
Check your PM.
[quote]
Originally posted by khan_sahib:
** guess what
President's Musharraf's ideal is Atta Turk.**
[/quote]
true and that's where we r leading to....
i still have that piece of jang news in which pervaiz musharraf n moeen haider said that we 're gonna make pakistan a secular state...no kidding...can u beleive this!!!
maybe for some ppl its open mindness or somethin
~~Hum aah bhi karte hein to ho jaate hein badnaam~~
~~Woh qatal bhi karte hein to charchaa nahi hotaa~~
Here's the kicker. The western countries do not have any prohibition against hijab. Muslim countries do. Go figure that. It is hard to believe this, as a westerner. Were the orthodox Muslims also political radicals that threatened the state of Turkey that Atta Turk Kemal went to extreme measures in reaction? He made the fez mandatory, too, no? This world is indeed as crazy as it can get!
**jannu bhai ** i was please to read your long response. well! first of all, i didnt comfortable telling every single thing what i was doing towards islam. Some things should be kept in silence, cause if the deed itself is good people will find out. Besides that, sawab ka kaam kar key batana nahee chahaey. If you wanted to make a change you could have continued without someone being on your side. Besides that this thread was basicaly about how women are being treated in Musilm worlds.
I am not going to give answer to all of this; hatred with some bombs or firing innocent people. “Peace” thats what Islam teach us. Jannu bhai its been a while since september 11 my feelings towards the western media before sept 11 were negative after that they developed the feeling of hatred. Infact, I hate both sides, Muslim newspaper curses at western world and western world claims Muslim terriorst.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
its like you are going around and around in the circle. Its mention in Quran Shareef, that Allah has send those Holy Books to so and so nations, and IF we dont believe in them. Our eman is not completed.
I cannot change the entire world, I cannot change the prespective of every single Non-Muslim. But i can change those who are around me.
My fight started with the rights of women, Muslim cultures have treated women like a piece of ****. I will raise my voice from western media too. thapar ka jawaab, laton aur ghooso sey don gi. My very first start was, writing an article on women in islam soon that will be published. I have started my fight, I dont care if someone joins me. But inshallah i will give this fight a good end. And this is just the begining Agey agey dekhey hota hai kia
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
When we go up there we all have to answer our own deeds. I will do whatever i can to help poor victims. I have done it, people who have to change first are us Muslims. For example, WOmen need to stand up for themselves and tell Men to back off. Muslims have to stand up and let western world recongnize the true meaning of islam. Muslims have to Re-Read Quran Shareef and understand it with meanings so alot of ignorant people can learn something.
you mentioned power to change the world, ‘we’ muslims have the power to change the world. One person alone cannot change the entire world but yeah few people. Allah didnt give one person burden of the entire world. Do as much as you can to help those who are in need. In other words, If you see something is wrong, dont just sit there and do nothing. But you cant be sitting in new jersey ( i think thats where you are) and worry about chinese Muslims. Allah sees everything
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Jannu bhai you got pretty emotional in your reply. Which is good but not logical, there are several Muslims who are wrong too, dont forget that.
When you talk about the starved, raped etc ones. Allah made Humans equal, do you have to ask people before saving their lives “yo! whats your religion”
If a girl is being raped, You wont save her if she is jewish?
If a kid is being kidnapped you wont save him cause he is christian?
If one man is being beaten up by few others people, Instead of saving him or handling the situation. You need to know the religion of that person?
Nahee Jab baat yaha tak a jati hai then you dont look at who is hindu, who is christian or who is jewish or etc. ** insaniyaat** yeh bhi kisi cheez ka naam hai.
There are millions of Humans who are dying everyday. The best part is Allah told Muslims, that he has revealed other books and they were revealed on His messengers, its one duty to believe them. And sad part is Most of the muslims rejects this main part of their emaaan.
This war isnt for one day, one month or one year.
[This message has been edited by nia_khan (edited May 22, 2002).]
very very sad.. they should be ashamed
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
**Zindagi khail hia
Khail main agar choot lag jayee to roona kaisa,
Kuch na payee to schakayat kaisi,
Aur jo kuch paya hia ose khoona kaisa **
His leadership, his influence on so many and the straight fowardness that no political leader nowadayz is equipped with.
The way he had an major impact on the economy on Turkey and so on, but as I said before he was a racist and has done a lot of wrong as well. But talking about his own personality he was impressive as was Hitler’s, though he was a mass murderer.
“WatCh youR tHoughtS; they become words.
WatCh youR wOrdS; they become actions.
WatCh youR aCtiOns; they become habits.
WatCh youR hAbiTs; they become character.
WatCh youR chaRactEr; it becomes your dEsTinY."
[QUOTE]
nia_khan:**
*i didnt comfortable telling every single thing what i was doing towards islam. *
Nor do most people… I will never accept that stand. I know that’s how things are taught in Pakistan and other Muslim countries. I have never lived in Pakistan so I see, and read this, with much curiosity.
How am I supposed to show my kids Muslim role models? Not by how they look but by their actions? I can not show many in my community. They all like to keep quiet about all the good they are doing… but for some reason… we all shout about the problems facing us. How confusing I find this, I can’t begin to tell you. Anyways… I am not like most Muslims…
*Some things should be kept in silence, cause if the deed itself is good people will find out. *
This reminds me of a time I was talking about total lack of volunteer services at the local mosque with a friend of mine. I was telling him why doesn’t the local mosque recognizes someone as a volunteer services “director” or some such thing like the churches do around here? For example, we need volunteers to help keep the yard clean, clean the inside, visit the Muslim sick in the local hospital, laison with the local hospital in providing help in providing halaal food for those Muslim who ask for them, drive the charity collection in the neighborhoods, collect and develop materials for the local jails, the managing the open house that we don’t ever have, etc. Well, he kind of smirked at me and said that, “Well, why do yo need someone to tell you what to do. Why don’t you just go ahead and do it on your own… whatever you can?” Well, Nia, I kind of sat there quiet for a few seconds and thought to myself that he has no idea what he is saying. I found his response so ludicurious, and he is a religious person, that I have never discussed things like these with him.
Thing is that we lack organizational approach to any issues that we are facing. There’s a lot we can learn from the Indians and the Jews on this regard. They understand what it means to band together for a cause. I see them take issue with something and then I see ourselves burried with the idea that we should expose a good thing if we do it. Let others suffer until someone figures out that someone has done some good…whenever that truth surfaces. But it would be awfully powerful and effective if the same thing is coordinated, performe and made an example of.
*Besides that, sawab ka kaam kar key batana nahee chahaey. *
I subscribe to the hadith that if charitable work is exposed and shown as “an example” to others for the purpose of deriving similar actions then it is allowed. And why shouldn’t it be, to begin with?
If you wanted to make a change you could have continued without someone being on your side.
I did… for months. I just stopped a month ago.
Same difference.
*“Peace” thats what Islam teach us. *
That’s what it is.
*after that they developed the feeling of hatred. Infact, I hate both sides, Muslim newspaper curses at western world and western world claims Muslim terriorst.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
I haven’t found a Muslim who hasn’t said what you have said. My question to them becomes… so what do you think should be done? Answer: What can be done? Everthing is in the hands of Jews… or whatever. Then I think to myself… mmmm…
*I cannot change the entire world, I cannot change the prespective of every single Non-Muslim. But i can change those who are around me. *
No, you can not. You will get only so many on your side after year that you could probably count on one hand. But, on the other hand, if you… I hope you gain that much more power… .for the sake of all of us.
*My fight started with the rights of women, Muslim cultures have treated women like a piece of ****. *
Right! Funny thing is that these women are kept in subjugation by the ones who follow the Quran and sunnah. I used to be visited by these jamaatis who’d come to my area. Sufice to say that I have not seen one jamaat come my way in the last 3-4 years. They have learned to black list Mr. Jannus’ house. I know they go around the town. But, they better not come to my home… bunch of idiots!
*I will raise my voice from western media too. thapar ka jawaab, laton aur ghooso sey don gi. *
The problem, Nia, is that unlike you, a vast majority of Muslims is not capable of understanding that we can raise our voices in the media… that’s where the battles are fought… battles for the hearts and minds. You are absolutely correct in saying this. But the real affect is laid when you have a whole lotta others who believe in what you are doing and do the same thing. It is far, far, better to manager such an approach as a group then hope to fire a “sosha” and hope that someone will “see the light of the day”. On the contrary, it is better to call together people and discuss the situations, solutions, and ways to implement those solutions. Team work.
*My very first start was, writing an article on women in islam soon that will be published. *
How about you push your article on this topic to as many of the media outlets as possible? You don’t have the time to do that. But someone else who’s with on a single approach can take on a portion of the work. It’s like a fist that, when closed, can strike like a hammer or, when open, can only slap.
I dont care if someone joins me. But inshallah i will give this fight a good end.
I hope you go for a KO. Lot of others have started their fights… look around… can you see them?
*And this is just the begining Agey agey dekhey hota hai kia
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I wish you the best of the luck. I have been down that path and know what you are undertaking. I do really wish you do what many have failed to accomplish and or perform.
*When we go up there we all have to answer our own deeds. *
That is so true. But many suffice to believe that believing in their hearts that somethings are just plain wrong, saying with their tounges (to “each other”) that some things are just plain wrong… is enough. I, somehow, don’t believe in that. I just fail to see what becomes of that behavior.
*WOmen need to stand up for themselves and tell Men to back off. *
Check my response here:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum26/HTML/006938-2.html
Muslims have to stand up and let western world recongnize the true meaning of islam.
Like you said… it only matters what you, individually, can do. We don’t have the right to tell others what to do. We can only suggest. So, I understood what you said earlier. But is this a wish you are expressing… 'cause that’s where it stays and ends: a wish.
Muslims have to Re-Read Quran Shareef and understand it with meanings so alot of ignorant people can learn something.
Bail kay aagey been bajaoo gi? You are asking those who do not believe in what you are saying to do something they are not interested in? There are ways to tackle problems… through the legal system, through the civil system, peer pressures, protests, media, boycotts, etc. etc. etc. When enough people of a similar thinking come together then things have a way of changing.
you mentioned power to change the world, ‘we’ muslims have the power to change the world. One person alone cannot change the entire world but yeah few people. Allah didnt give one person burden of the entire world.
And that’s what I had been trying to say and prove.
Do as much as you can to help those who are in need.
Yes, I do.
*In other words, If you see something is wrong, dont just sit there and do nothing. *
But as a good believer who understands he has no power to change anything… doesn’t Islam give tell him to, alteast, detest the injustice in his mind, heart and by his tongue? That I do. You are saying I should do more? How?
{i]But you cant be sitting in new jersey ( i think thats where you are) and worry about chinese Muslims. Allah sees everything
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Hay… people!!! Hear this? Now, there’s another Muslim saying the same thing. 
Jannu bhai you got pretty emotional in your reply. Which is good but not logical, there are several Muslims who are wrong too, dont forget that.
Not “several”… “majority” as I have seen in my real and virtual life. Logical… hmmm… matter of perspective. My is totally confined to Muslim sphere.
*…Nahee Jab baat yaha tak a jati hai then you dont look at who is hindu, who is christian or who is jewish or etc. *
Yup… you’re right. Done that too.
Doesn’t the Quran say that we are sent as His vice-generants (sp) and that we are to stop the bad and promote the good?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
… I have words here that I will not say… insaani sharafat kay bahar hoN gay.
But I know what you are saying Nia. You understand me. I don’t want to work as a lone voice… I don’t exist as a lone voice. Where I live, I was the only Muslim caller for over 2 months on the local radio shows. It wasn’t in the 3rd month? when I began to hear other Muslims calling in. I guess my efforts need to be on those around me and in the mosque… I’ll be damn if I can get more then a handful of people to understand that if we band together and raise a concerted voice in the local media, we might be heard… Believed? That’s not what I am shooting for. Be heard… first… that’s step one.
I just wanna see others now… even the local community has gone dead… while we stand in the quicksand. Our only hope is the generation that is born here, will rise up here, and then fight for Islam as they should. Long as there are people alive in the West that were born in the old world and migrated to the West, we will not see much change. They just have too different ideas on how to go about certain things. But I understand… they are taught by the social, political and economical circumstances they grew up in.
I am waiting for our children to grow up and take up the flag of Islam from us.
This is totally outrageous, unbelievable!
Remind me again, why is Turkey called a “muslim” country? If it doesn’t allow it’s citizen to practice their own religion!
Many Turks I know don’t like to associate a religion with their country and would prefer it to be secular, even if a majority of the people have Muslim roots. It is their country. It is their choice.
[quote]
Originally posted by Nobel:
** Many Turks I know don't like to associate a religion with their country and would prefer it to be secular, even if a majority of the people have Muslim roots. It is their country. It is their choice.**
[/quote]
Ah ya Nobel? Guess what, I have a lot of Turkish friends and they said the opposite..how strange?!
“WatCh youR tHoughtS; they become words.
WatCh youR wOrdS; they become actions.
WatCh youR aCtiOns; they become habits.
WatCh youR hAbiTs; they become character.
WatCh youR chaRactEr; it becomes your dEsTinY."
[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
** Ah ya Nobel? Guess what, I have a lot of Turkish friends and they said the opposite..how strange?!
**
[/quote]
You are so shrewd. You caught me. You know the real Turks. I only know the fake ones. That is why Turkey is consumed by riots as we speak because the majority are like your friends and don't want a secular state, but these fake Turks (like the ones I know) are a small minority creating trouble.
That’s terrible…
Are there any signs in Turkey showing that things are starting to get better for our brothers and sisters though?
these pictures do seem quite recent…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif
hope that makes sense.
[quote]
Originally posted by jannu:
Is this it? Is what you are saying the solution? I am not fighting what you are saying. I was like you.... full of such feelings since, and before (pull my thread in religion and world), 9/11. We all see incidences like these and utter comments of saddness or explatives. Is that the answer? Don't we realize that we, you and I, today, here and now, have the power to change the world over night? We might not change the hearts and minds of many but, by God, collectively, we have the power to change the world today.
But, alas, we are too selfish. We are too self-absorbed. We are too scared. We are too short-visioned. We are just too stupid. The possibilites are endless. Possibilites are endless for us to face and tear down the walls of tyranny that surround us, that prevent us from living like Muslims, that force the ways of Shaitan upon us. But do we want to rise up and raise our hands, open our mouths, use our brains? Are we even a tiny bit interested in fighting these injustices to whatever extent we, you and I, are capable of?
So, what do we do? Ammarr, what do we do? Do we have to go to the moon to make our case to the world? Do we have to go to the battlefields of jihad to shed our blood? Is dying for the cause of Islam the answer (who will fight if we die? Only stupid people die for a cause)? No. No. No. The answer to what we face is around you. The paths you have to take are right outside your door. They are in your schools. They are in your work. They are in your media. They are all around you. But they shall, fore ever, be hidden from our eyes and minds. For when we think that enough is enough.... we will rise up then and do what's right.
Right now, we, Muslims, haven't had enough. Not yet. Not enough millions have died. Not enough people have been gassed by our own. Not enough have been raped by our own fathers, brothers and family. Not enough have been starved, poisoned, had their throats slit, kept as slaves in their homes, beheaded for crimes that do not call for that punishment, not enough have shed their blood trying to kill other Kalma-go.
Forget the atrocities forced upon us by non-muslims. We are being burried alive by our own. We have to rise up and fight ourselves before we raise a finger of accusation to the West. We must wash ourselves, We must be able to clean ourselves, we must be able to look down our own "greybaan"..... before we raise our heads to see what the non-muslims are doing to us. For, when that time comes, dunya ko us waqt bachaaney waala koi nahiN hoga. Hum hoNgay aur kalma hoga.
Hum hoNgay aur kalma hoga..... hum hoNgay aur kalma hoga..... hum hoNgay aur kalma hoga.
Lekin hamaari gaaRi ka paiyyah jab chaley ga jab hum yeh faisla kareN gay keh .... ab bohat ho gaya hai.
Jab tak woh moqa nahiN aata... you and I will keep dying.... for no reason but to pay a price of saying "La ilaaha il-lallah mohammadur rasool-Allah" aur is kay peechay jo aik kahani hai us ko apnaanay kay lieh hamaarey laakhoN logoN ko apni gardan uRwaany paRti hai.
But Nia... soch lo keh kia bol rahi ho. I was like you after 9/11. Tried very hard. Kept up with media and such. Was heavy on GS:World and General Did not come into Cafe for like 2-3 months. Finally, it dawned on me that we are like a crowd is standing out by a burning house that is expressing anger and frustration.... but no one is willing to do any work.
I am off that track now. I don't care. I go with the belief that jo kuch hota hai qismat ka hota hai. Jo bhi marta hai, woh aik jagha aur waqt peh marta hai... jo us kay liey ta'ayun kardi gai hai.
I may be blunt in saying this.... but it doesn't freakin' matter. Tend to your life, your family, your future. Forget me and others.**
[/quote]
Asalam O Alaikum Jannu,
I havent read what others had to say...becuase i feel i dont find the need to read it more. You have said everything that needed to be said in a very precise manner.
JazakAllah Khairun for that. May Allah give us All hidayat.
All i want to ask is....Why muslims all aroudn the globe are in trouble? whose fault is it that? its definitely not QISMAT. Like you said Jannu, solution is in our hands...its right there in front of us..but we chose to look past it. TOday, we need to work on ourselves. Our imaan. we need to work in our families...on our brothers, fathers, mothers, sisters, daughters, sons. We need to bring Islam back in to our lives. Whats missing is OUR IMAAN. We boast that we are muslims..but what part of "Muslim" identity we follow? We have brought this on ourselves...
Isnt Quran full of anecdotes of how ppl were gone astray, they refused to believe in Allah as THE ONLY ONE. and then came the disaster Allah had promised.
What i'd like to tell everyone to do is..ask ourselves..what are we doing for Allah? WE believe in governments..we believe in human beings...we would, if not literally but figuratively, bow to human beings, but we dont prostrate to Allah!
Dont we know that all the "halaat", all the situations are send by Allah? Dont we believe as a muslim that, whatever good or bad happened it is sent from Allah? that we as human beings are at the mercy of Allah? Yes, most of us would have lenghty discussions on the topics of islam..even on Faith, and what namaaz stands for us. But how much of us actually stop and think and wonder what we are really saying????
We call ourselves muslims..but we dont follow the path of islam. we worry more about what humans have to say..then worry about what our Amaals are like.
Again, maybe i have gone right off the track. doesnt matter...
Reason why there is so much hardship..ie in Afghanistan..in Turkey, in Chechniya, in Palestine...because we dont have namaz's in our lives. We dont believe anymore that Allah can do everything..if v say it with our tongue, then we dont believe it with the depths of heart.
Because if we did...then after hearing such things we would have turn to masjid. we would have dropped in prostration in front of Allah, and beg HIM to make things right.
We commit sins, adultary, we eat haram, we lie, we steal, we do be-imaani..we dont follow any of the commandments of Allah and then we complain why all this distress comes to Muslims.WHY MUSLIMS! because muslims have placed there faiths in Materialistic world.
We beleive that if we were to work hard...that is the only way we get money, and money can buy food, and our zaooriat. We forget...that even if we didnt have money, Allah would still give..IF WE HAD THAT FAITH IN OUR HEARTS!!!
So from now on...lets not start saying.."oh this is so sad", lets do what we are here for...lets beg Allah for our forgiveness...lets bring Allah in every minute of our lives..lets implement islam in every dimensions of our lives...and InshAllah Allah will make things better. Whatever is happening around the world is an indication to Muslims..to turn back...to turn back to their LORD. the one who is so Mercifull..He is showing us signs, He is giving us chance to earn jannat...but we are too ignorant..we have gone so far in Kufar..we dont see clearly anymore. Our hearts, our faiths are clouded by the fake beauty of this world!
SO pls, if there is some maseebat, some probalem..or even any khushee...lets do wadoo, and pray two nafal. JUST FOR ALLAH. lets beg him...cuz George Bush, or Pervez Musharaf cant do anything..they are just human beings like us. They are just as much at the mercy of Allah as we are....Lets place our faith in the right way..on ALLAH.
Lets not underestimate the Power of Sincere dua.....!!!!!
JazakAllah
I assume u r a westerner and confused. Just imagine the muslims living in muslim countries when they see and hear these things. I was brought up with such passion for Turkey ( i still love the Turkish people) but when i read things like these in the open media i was like
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/pagal.gif
I had almost similar reactions when i read a little about Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Iraq, Jordan and so on.
I have enough respect for the intelligence of many who post here that I feel confident to write truth as I see it. It is an amazing irony that this is true of Turkey and the West. Today there was a report that a turban wearing Muslim wielding a shotgun went berserk due to harassment against him because of it. There may be a small chance of negative circumstances occuring to Muslims, but compared to violence done by Muslims to Muslims, it is indeed small. The main thing is that Kemal Atta Turk wanted to modernize Turkey for a chance of keeping step, though may have done so in a misguided manner. The orthodox Muslims would resist the part of change that would really be within the constructs of Islam. The British may have had a hand in damping the aspects of Islam it didn't like. Turkey still exists with much of it's culture intact so Islam is strong. If the majority want to reimplement what they perceive as proper, they should do so through government.
Yeah, right you know the “fake” Turks, whatever that means.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
The State is oppressing not the public.
I hope you know the difference.
“WatCh youR tHoughtS; they become words.
WatCh youR wOrdS; they become actions.
WatCh youR aCtiOns; they become habits.
WatCh youR hAbiTs; they become character.
WatCh youR chaRactEr; it becomes your dEsTinY."
Ums:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif
hope that makes sense.
No, the army will not allow any Islamic influence on the federal gov’t by constitutional law. If Islamic figures get too powerful they are removed by hook or crook. Conditions there are akin to those that existed in Russia against the Muslims. There have been Islamic parties and gov’t recently but they have been hounded by the gov’t for sedition… if the islamic parties get people to vote for them then they are charged for going against the constitution and, thus, charged with something like treason (or a similar charge).
Qaswah
What you are saying is fine. I have a slightly different thinking and view. Many of the Muslims who do not practice religion but are worried can also work for Islam. What you are saying is paramount, no doubt, but the lack of religious adherence does not stop many Muslims to work for Islam. Many have skills, knowledge, etc. that can be used for this purpose. I know many who are concerned Muslims but do not practice Islam as you outlined. Everyone can work for Islam in their capacity. But to state a requirement to be fulfilled before anything else can be done is, in my opinion, negating many chances that we have to work for Islam.
Your stand is on purely technical basis but the real world does not necessitate (sp?) that approach.
Khan Sahib
*I had almost similar reactions when i read a little about Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Iraq, Jordan and so on. *
Don’t forget Taliban keh baap: Saudi Arabia.
Ali
You are right… the state is oppressing. But that’s because the constitution dictates it. To change what Turkey does… to a large extent… the constitution of the country needs to be changed.
But there are other things we can do to show our distaste. Aren’t Turkish businesses in Pakistan? We can approach our local gov’ts to lodge complaints, we can write the the HR commission, we can write to the Turkish embassies or the Turkish gov’t itself. We can find ways to give a vocal representation to the Turkey’s Islamic parties. These are the small, individually, achievable steps, in my opinion, that can be followed.
Voices count, votes count…
You guys might be taking Atta Turk, President Musharaf and Secularism the wrong way here...
Atta Turk was a good man, he thought about his ppl, that was good. He tought them how industrialization and education can help them...
Musharaf wants Pakistan to be a developed state. I fully support him in that. And when he said secular he meant idealistically secular, where everyone has equal rights, just like what the Koran and the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) tell us.
Secularism... what you see in the picture is not secularism. It's plain opression, just like they demolish Mosques in India. Girls of all ages wear hijab to schools here in the U.S. And no one stops them from entering everyday.
You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.