Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Acknowledging that Yazid killed Prophet's family is not equivalent to cursing Yazid.
Calling a spade a spade is the centerpiece of Islamic teachings. Sometimes not taking a side is as bad as taking a wrong side.

There is no way one can stay "neutral" when knowing fully well Yazid's crimes against Islam. It is the same thing as one cannot stay neutral on Firoun's crimes against Musa or Abu Lahab's crimes against Prophet himself.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

You are talking about events which happened just 1400 years ago. But your religion talks of enmities which existed tens of thousands of years ago. Have you forgotten the stories of Habil and Qabil, for example?
You also need to forget about enmities between Prophet and Abu Lahab as well. And stop calling "may Abu Lahab's hands be broken (tabbat yada ...)" from now on.

If 1400 years is long time to worry about truth and falsehood then why even follow a religion which is so old?

It does not matter how old those stories are. If they are related to Prophet and his family then they will be as relevant as today, AS LONG AS YOU CLAIM TO BE A MUSLIM.

And even after becoming an atheist, the notion of right/wrong, truth/false, remains the same.

People call Faiz a communist and atheist. But even if he was an atheist, he was much better a person that he called a murderer a murderer.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Meray Bhai, what is the reason to praise yazid just because it pisses off the 12ers ? There are numerous other issues that 12ers have for which they can be criticized. Dr Naik did the most immature thing possible but stirring up an unneccessary controvery which definately affected his reputation.Like I said even if he hates hussain b Ali , how can he overlook the sacking and pillaging of medina ? has he lost his mind ?*

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Firstly Quran is full of historical anecdotes too and secondly Tabari's history does not in anyway exonerate yazid of his crimes.There are narrations ( could very well be true) of yazid treating hussains family very kindly in syria, this is very much possible given the kinship between hashimites and ummayyads.It does not in anyway mean that yazid would not approve of his political opponent hussains killing.There are numerous examples of different clans of quraish treating each other's families kindly after cutting the throats of their relatives.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

12er ithna asharis of today are not the same "shia of Ali" refered to in the ahadith
Shia of Ali are the sahaba/Tabaeen who supported Ali in his wars not a distinct ideological sect that evolved 100 yrs later.So the ahadith in favor of "shia of Ali" of the first civil war should not be used to silence criticism of 12ers ithna asharis of today.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

I don't have issue with historical events mentioned in Quran. My point is criticising and devaluing a person's knowledge on religion just because he doesn't follow a particular version of 1400 year history is not justified. Quran got authenticity for me and its part of my belief but authenticity of historical material written a century after the incident of Karbala is not that guaranteed and neither one is required to make that part of his / her faith.

The issue is just not limited to Yazid, but also to other 3 caliphs and Ameer Muawiya too and wives of the Prophet and I would rather opt to be neutral on commenting personality of those, who are otherwise portrayed as evil as per one version of history. Our issue is we always hilight negative aspects of people and forget the positive contributions they made.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

[QUOTE]
don't have issue with historical events mentioned in Quran. My point is criticising and devaluing a person's knowledge on religion just because he doesn't follow a particular version of 1400 year history is not justified
[/QUOTE]

Yes thats true but Dr Naik should not have delved into an issue which he clearly has no knowledge of or intentionally was trying to ignore

[QUOTE]

. Quran got authenticity for me and its part of my belief but authenticity of historical material written a century after the incident of Karbala is not that guaranteed and neither one is required to make that part of his / her faith
[/QUOTE]

But what about the Quranic precedent of learning from history ? is there an alternate version of Karbala and Harrah ?
What Dr Naik is ignoring is mainstream history not just some obscure narrations, events of Harrah and Karbala are well recorded and covered in depth even in the biographies of narraters of hadith.Its not part of the faith to curse yazid nor is it part of faith to praise or defend yazid.The event of Karbala is significant as it is the first major example of "enjoin good and forbid evil" in islamic hsitory and example of rising up against a corrupt ruler this example will be emulated for centuries later by muslims of all denominations.By praising and defending yazid Dr Naik is essentially calling such uprisings redundant and useless, maybe Dr Naik is of that School of thought that muslim rulers are to be obeyed no matter what and there is a plethora of hadith which are narrated to support this view.Clearly there is some disconnect here between history and hadith, did hussian b Ali, Abdullah b zubair, Aisha , talha, Ansar of medina , Qurra of Kufa have not heard of these ahadith ??? as they clearly rose up against their rulers.

[QUOTE]
The issue is just not limited to Yazid, but also to other 3 caliphs and Ameer Muawiya too and wives of the Prophet and I would rather opt to be neutral on commenting personality of those, who are otherwise portrayed as evil as per one version of history. Our issue is we always hilight negative aspects of people and forget the positive contributions they made
[/QUOTE]

But here is the point, Dr Naik clearly was not neutral about yazid ! He is trying to be more loyal than the king by praising yazid.No sunni historian praises the "great ummayyad victory of Karbala or Harrah"
12ers may have an alternate version of history leave them to their own devices.The problem is sunnis think their main dispute with 12ers is the opinion of certain personalities, thats not the core issue and thats where the 12ers would like to drag you into.The main difference between sunni and shia is the issue of Imamate and its theological implications.I can show you many personalities in history who hated uthman Ali muawiyah and yazid etc who have no shia roots and are respected narraters in sunni hadith.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

I have no objection for ur view. I respect them. but just a question if U can oblige. Do U believe that it was Yazid who ordered the killing of our third Imam and his family?

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

As I already said that its not the matter of belief. We have different accounts of history which prove Yazeed evil and some accounts not so. I can't say anything with certainity, thats why I opt for being neutral.

You will also find many discussion threads where I took side of ahl e bait when someone raised question about their political decisions, based on historical accounts.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

I guess lets leave it on Allah to decide, who HE wants to send in Jannah!

Its just about what you want to perceive! nd I guess his statement was somewhat like... agar mohabbat karna jurm hay... agar mohabbat kernay wala mulzim hay........ to haan main nain jurm kia hay... main mulzim hoon!!

Peace..

I think you misunderstood his point. I know what Yazeed has done can never be forgotten.. Its been said, Achhi baat jahan se bhi seekhnay ko milay, bas seekh lo.... so I guess, thats what Muqawwee Bhai told me that consider his Good points too... undoubtedly he HAS a vast knowledge.

Even when I knew he has a vast knowledge, didn't I post a thread here on his views about Yazeed??
Why? because I am not blindly believing in him. I am grownup and I know what CAN be logical and what CAN'T be! So dont worry.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

I would like to be neutral on this issue as Muqa made some very valid points.
regarding dr zakir naik, I see hundreds of forums/blog where people bash/criticize dr. Zakir naik. that sort of discussion is somewhat like, one way, or even half duplex communication, where people just fulfil their desire of bashing dr. Zakir Naik. But, one thing i observed persistantly across all those forums/blogs is, that no one dare to reply the comments where someone (basher of Dr Zakir) is asked to challenge Dr Zakir.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

and you mean??

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

^I mean to say, on blogs, people can say anything about Zakir Naik they want; he is not supposed to reply them. People criticize him on forums and blogs but do not dare to ask him a question or challenge him as he provides an open program/forum “Dare to Ask Dr. Zakir Naik”.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

YEAH, THIS^ thats what I think too!!

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Tablighis usually limit their preaching activities to Muslim communities, but they do spread their message to non-Muslims. However, do you think that doing Islah of Muslims is waste of time?

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Peace khoji,

Pardon my ignorance but what Abu Lahab’s incident has to do with the incident of Yazeed, anyway? I think it is not fair to justify one incident by relating it to with any other incident. If so, then there is an example out of manys that our beloved Prophet Muhammad :saw2: forgiven that Habshi who martyred Hazrat Hamza r.a. Why don’t we relate the positive incident incase if we wanna justify an incident?

Also, we are invited by our religion (Quran) to come to a word that is equitable between us and you (others) that we will not worship except One God. We shall cooperate with each others in righteousness and piety, but not sin and aggression as our religion (Quran) teach us.

Lastly, no one force anyone to follow so and so. What I heard that what is good, positive and beneficial for all that shall be taken and what is bad, negative and harmful that should be left.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

@ ajazali... yes but their methodology is wring... plus they have so many strange and wrong things in their books... well a very long discussion it is...

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

The thing people need to remember about him is that he is NOT an islamic scholar. What his area of expertise entails is comparative religion. Comparing christian jewish and muslims beleif plus texts. For that reason, everything he says i take with a pich of salt. And im not for one minute undermining his intelligence or knowledge. He should stick to his area of expertise. If you want proper authentic advice about islam i recommend a mufti

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

Peace midnight express 91,

Well said. Neverthless I heard him saying on many occasion that he's not a scholar but a 'student' so what ever u found good take it or whatever u find wrong just leave it. Same as four Imams of School of thoughts said.

I think rather then blindly following someone, we should further investigate the matter and take what is good and leave what is bad.

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Re: Your Views and Dr. Zakir Naik!

very VERY well said!!