Your childhood: academically

Did your parents prioritize academics? And how? My uncle does not let his kids have eny leisure time and actually bullies them into studying nearly all waking hours. The kids are all “nalaiq”, have not bothered to learn basic English in Pakistan, and have incredibly naive dreams of attending top-notch schools in the West. But another uncle and aunt did the same with their children except they enrolled him in extracurricular activities like golf and polo as well. Their kids are doing fine. They are not academically exceptional but they are confident and intelligent because of all the extra-curric. activities and will succeed because of these qualities.

In contrast, my parents did not stress academics much. My father, who studied physics in graduate school, taught me math and sciences for some time. My mother helped my sister with French but they stopped when we entered our early teens. But learning was always a priority; we were encouraged to read in our spare time, grew up loving the library with our vacations starting when, on the first day after classes, we got a couple dozen books. Though we are girls, my father did not let us do any housework and we were encouraged to spend our time studying. We are in our twenties now and school is our priority though I am married and she will probably be soon. Our parents do not want us to stop studying / working with marriage.

When I have children, I plan to enroll them in extra-curricular activities and make education a priority above everything else, including family I suppose. I want them to do very well in life. I want them to go to top-tier schools or work on something else they are passionate about (e.g. sports or art). I am afraid of being a tyrant like my uncle however.

How should we raise our children so that they are exceptional?

Re: Your childhood: academically

My father and parents didnt go to grad schools, but they had passion to get us there, Alhamdolillah we all three went on different sides from good schools.
until school level they do somehow stress more on to study hard and didnt like us to have any extra-curric activities. but that pressure was relaxed gradually when we started colleges.
we were let free to choose lines of careers and subjects, so all end up in medical, law, and comp sc. careers.

my personal view is to let kids have balanced study and sports in life. and let them choose what they are really good at and have passion about. be it art or science or anyting else.

Re: Your childhood: academically

My parents have always allowed us to mix leisure and school at a moderate level. It's important to have a life out of school.

Re: Your childhood: academically

I’d want my kids to get good grades and study and KNOW what htey’re doing, but i think I would really beat them if they were the type to cry over getting an A minus, or consider an 89 failing. :smilestar: I ain’t raising whiny nerds!

Re: Your childhood: academically

Sara: Considering Ivy League schools are rejecting most valedictorians that apply (I was reading an article which said one particular school rejected 60%), I would want whiny kids who won't be satisfied with 89% In this new age of "super" college applicants even exceptional falls short because of the competition.

Re: Your childhood: academically

so who are htey accepting, if not valedictorians?

gonig to an ivy league school isn't a top priority, it wont make them better ppl and they can get decent education elsewhere. harvard/yale isnt the most imp thing in the world.

Re: Your childhood: academically

Actually, these are the specific questions I'd like to know the answers to:

  • What about girls here who have brothers? How do your parents emphasize academics differentially? I don't have brothers but my father made it a point to treat us like boys even though his family is very traditional. We used to live in small apartments so he could send us to good schools.

  • Do your mothers stress education more than your fathers?

  • Who do your parents identify as role models for you? Of what gender?

  • Did they spend money on extracurric. activities for you?

  • What do you think your parents should have done differently?

  • How do they react when you do poorly in school?

  • For girls, did your parents construct marriage and education as mutually exlusive?

Re: Your childhood: academically

I've heard this a lot; these schools won't make you good people. Schools are not intended for those purposes. Character development is a side effect, not the main purpose of education. The best education should be pursued because it is the highest good and nothing is more important than knowledge and doing something with that. The best libraries, the best faculty are in these schools anyway. Character development is the province of parents.

What's "decent education"? It depends on what you want to do with your life.

It's offensive that you think kids who worry about grades and the "small" increments between an 89 and a 100 are whiny.

Re: Your childhood: academically

-When it came to education, we were both equal on that aspect. For twelve years we both went to private, Catholic schools, tuition was never a problem and now that I think about it, i’m glad I went to Catholic school. I’d never send my kids to public school, at least not if we’re in NYC. It’s the same with college, I don’t go to a top private college, but I know that I’m getting a decent education.

-My mother never got a chance to go to college, in her family it was just not done, and even now, none of the girls have gone past their BA, and that too was just timepass until they got married. I doubt anybody there, has put their education to use. Knowing how much she wishes she could have gone, or at least learn english when she came here, I don’t take my education for granted. My father is very well educated. My dada-dadi were extremely poor but they stressed education for all their children. My phuphos lived and worked abroad, they were nurses and teachers. I can go a whole lot more into this but I think for now, thise answers both the question of who stresses education more and who’s the role model.

-Of I did poorly, my mother would scream and yell that both of us were nailaq (even though only one of us screwed up :hoonh: ). Dad lectured us, he was always very calm and cool. now that i’m in college, they don’t know exactly how I’m doing, I dont’ tell them if i failed a class, if i’m having trouble, etc.

-In our family, marriage was the natural step after graduation. If I preferred I could work or go for a masters or get married, it was all upto me, and IMO I think that’s the best way to go about it, let them decide what they want to do with their lives.

I have a year left to go but I fully intend on graduating. Thankfully, education is very important in my fiance’s family, so I have no worries when it comes to them.

Re: Your childhood: academically

I'm a big believer in fate. I say, **do your best, **and leave the rest up to Allah (swt).

I can't say for people who go to Harvard or NYU, but I do know that alot of my peers have great jobs, and are putting their education to the best use they can. If you have the drive, the ambition, then you can succeed. But if you're a lazy person, going to good schools are of no use whatsoever.

Re: Your childhood: academically

I was internally motivated, so they didn't push me too much. But at some point, I think they found out that if I do really well I can get a scholarship to go to school, and that would mean they would save money...so then they started pushing me. At which point, it got annoying and I wasn't having so much fun at school anymore. But I still had some internal motivation, and I am now where I am, ma'shallah se.

It gets annoying when parents push and force. They shouldn't do that. They should let you do whatever the hell you want. I joke with my parents that if they just let me do that, I might be in marketing or designing right now. I wouldn't be studying still, and I'd be making a crap load of money right now. But whatever.

They didn't encourage me to do extracurric's. I did that on my own, because I couldn't just study ad nauseum. I need to do other stuff with my life. They were stuck in the Pakistani convent school mentality that if I get good grades, it'll be enough to get me into places. It doesn't work that way in American education. And its cool, makes you a better person to do other stuff beside earn A's.

Re: Your childhood: academically

You know this reminds me of Colin Powell and his biography "Soldier". There's scant mention of his personal life in the book, not because of privacy but because he didn't have any, especially in the later parts of his career. I find people's claims questionable that this can take a toll on an individual - if you love to do something, there can be no greater pleasure. Even family.

Though I am close to my family and care about them, I don't consider them primary. This leads me to question the definition of a good person everyone bandies about, which primarily denotes being good to your family, being giving and so on. These are good qualities but when people talk about being a good person, the implicit assumption is that someone who is driven to the exclusion of everything else in his/her life is not a good person. That by being so foused on career or education, he or she is selfish.

But this is not my definition of selfish at all. Selfish is the person who devotes his or her time to their family. Your time to a handful of people? How's that admirable? Isn't it more laudable when every moment is spent toward an academic or career goal that will actually better the world? Who is the more selfish person? Albert Einstein who till his last days was struggling to find a unified theory for the betterment of humanity (bettermind of the mind) or a woman whose days and nights revolve around her family? What has she done for the world? Her contributions have been limited to a small entity. I don't remember what my great grandfather did for his family, I don't remember what my great grandmother did. But Einstein's contributions are global and eternal. They are for the planet. And to my dying days I will remember what Powell did, though it's arguable, of course, that what he did was good for the world. The point is, the drive is for something beyond oneself.

I think the intention of learning is to do something for the world, for its collective knowledge and for the knowledge we have of ourselves and our existence. People who do that are "good" and "better" people.

Re: Your childhood: academically

Educating yourself, doing something for hte world, for ourselves is fine. But it's simply preposterous to suggest that those who devote htemselves to their families are selfish human beings. You want to devote your life to education and career by all means go ahead, but why marry and have children then, if all you're going to do is neglect them? THAT IMO is pure selfishness and an overinflated ego. To you, family might just be "handful of people" but they are the ones who brought you into this world, who raised you, who made you everything you are, whether you accept that or not. Without them you'd be nothing. I'm sure it's selfish of women to give birth when they could have just gotten abortions and found cures.

Re: Your childhood: academically

Yeah. I don't think the quality and pathology you speak of is absolute. It is relative. Relatively, she was more selfish than, say, Einstein.

Re: Your childhood: academically

Right OK.
I think Mom helped me alot more than Einstein ever did.
And i know i'm selfish :)

Re: Your childhood: academically

I said it is relative. And I am talkin about acts that transcend time. You will agree with me that Islam has transcended the moment in hostory in which it arose, so it is all the more greater for that. Yet, say, the Assassins in medieval Islamic history did not transcend time, and they are all the poorer for that. How is knowledge subject and a constraint to time? I am also talking about the collective human being: knowledge advances, but (and don't restrict this to mothers) what do short acts of relatively selfish love advance?

Re: Your childhood: academically

You ask what do "short acts of relatively selfish love advance"? I'd say they advance a person's quality of life. Would life even be worth living if there was nobody to love you, to take care of you, someone for you to love and take care of? To do that would require an absence of the heart.

Re: Your childhood: academically

Getting into an Ivy League school these days almost requires that one be exceptional at extra-curricular activities and community service in addition to exceptional grades. I just began working at a high school for gifted students in the admissions department, and was surprised at how difficult it is to meet the criteria. It isn't enough anymore to have good grades and high test scores - universities and even prep schools want well-rounded students who are successful in multiple areas.
I am a gori, so my answers may be a bit different because we were raised differently.

  • What about girls here who have brothers? How do your parents emphasize academics differentially? My parents expected me to work just as hard as my brother.

  • Do your mothers stress education more than your fathers? My mom was the disciplinarian when it came to schoolwork, but education was important to my dad as well.

  • Who do your parents identify as role models for you? Of what gender? My parents never neccesarily said that we should look up to certain people, but they were always around interesting people!

  • Did they spend money on extracurric. activities for you? Absolutely, I played the piano, was in band, played field hockey, swam, had summer jobs, etc. My mom always said that "idle hands do the devil's work!"

  • What do you think your parents should have done differently? I think that my parents did a great job with us. One of my brothers was less "academically inclined" than the rest of us, so my parents encouraged him to join the military, and he found a success in that area and eventually graduated from college while enlisted.

  • How do they react when you do poorly in school? I was grounded, lost privelages, lost my allowance if I didn't maintain an appropriate average, etc.

  • For girls, did your parents construct marriage and education as mutually exlusive? Yes. My parents never pressured me to marry, or made me feel that it should be my lifelong goal. My mom did often say that I should work before marriage and that it was especially important for a woman to have marketable skills and to keep those skills current after marriage. She was a stay-at-home mom while we were growing up, but went back to work part-time when we were in high school

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