You are not a Muslim.

[ahmadjee]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

armughal bhai, I know people who consider 3 namaz formula, with others who totally disregard how majority considers the right of saying salat.

Still, if I go with your suggestion on who is Muslim and who isn't then I have to consider all the women who argue hijab is not neccesary or my 'right' way is unislamic, then they have to be non-Muslims.

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

@picoico

There is such a thing as a bad Muslim.

One only needs to look around at all the boozers or womanizers or fashion model wannabes…they may not practice Islam but it’s easy to think that they may hav some attachment to it.

I suppose the knee-jerk reaction in calling these types non-Muslims has more to do with our inability to communicate a counter message to the one the public appearance of these people conveys…namely, it’s OKAY to be a dunkard or whatever. So, we overcompensate. And there’s no stronger way to condemn these people in an Islamic society than to label them as traitors (i.e. non-muslim).

:k:

[Chel_Chabila_Babu]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

@armughal

as someone said, a person who drinks wine but admits that he does wrong, is still a muslim doing wrong…

but someone who does not drink, but will argue that wien is halaal, does not remain a muslim…

liekwise, if people like salman rushdi, irshad manji, rashad khalifah call themselves muslims, we muslims have to correct it and let them know that they r not muslims…
unless they repent from their actions and beliefs…

:k:

[Pinstripe_Danda]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

:k:

[aishaA]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

@Pinstripe Danda

:k:

:k:

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

:halo:

[system]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

What exactly is 'jhatkaa'?

[system]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

'Normal people' like us can only call someone non-muslim if we have proove, if we actualy see someone commiting a major sin. Or if that person doesn't believe in everything -without singling anything out - written in the Noble Quran, then he/she is a non-muslim too and can be openly called one.

But committing minor sins doesn't make you a non-muslim (yet). Like most of us watch movies ( I personally do anyway), or we waste too much water or food (we will be questioned on wasting even something as small as a sandgrain), or we talk about someone, etc. We often do things like that without even realising it. But when you think about all your actions at the end of the day, you realise you committed another sin without even realising it.

That makes you a bad muslim and trying to improove yourself makes you hopefully a good one. But at that point, nobody can call you a non-muslim (yet).

[Captain1]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

@sadya

What exactly is ‘jhatkaa’?

stunning of animal before being slaughtered

[Pinstripe_Danda]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

@Sharaabi

Pidi, there are many who dont own credit cards, and there are many who do own credit cards, but pay it all off at the end of the month, thats what my dad does.

And then there are those muslims who do deal in interest. Some believe that its haraam, and they still do it cause of the various factors. Allah will be their judge…whilst there are other muslims who will continuously argue that bank interest is halaal, and this is clear kufr.

So owning a creditcard wont make them a kaafir right away.

btw..pidi, the correct statement would have been…“bunch of kaafirs”.

So by your logic someone like Sania Mirza might be wearing a skirt to play tennis and knows that it is wrong but is not arguing that wearing skirt is halaal. So who the heck are you to call her a non-muslim?

All this garbage around retrofitting intent is laughable. if you owna credit card and are paying yearly fees (doesn’t matter if you are paying it off at the end of the month or not, those are still applicable) you are adding to the top line of a company whose major business is dealing interest. If you own a house, if you own a car, etc… invariably you are dealing in interest. The insurance payments you make are tried to Credit derivaives that are all based on the concept of interest.

the fact is that no one has a right to question anothers relationship with god. People do it on their terms. wanna be mullahs like armughal and yourself are products of another time and are irrelevant in a world that is whizzing by.

SO lets spice this up… Muzna, do you own credit cards, have a mortgage on your pad, car payments? If she deals in interest as these products do, sharaabi, armughal–is she a non-muslim? And lets see the conviction of your thoughts…can you call her a non-muslim per your logic, now considering she is one of the head honchos..who comes first..Islam or GS aadministration.

[deedawar]

Re: You are not a Muslim.

@ahmadjee

This is dangerous preposition and one that has led to soo much intolerance in the Muslim world.

Going by the same logic, one can argue that basically everyone who doesn’t follow my school of thought is not Muslim.

Those who argue 3 farz dailay prayers can be regarded as non-Muslims by those who consider 5 to be the actual number. Those who disregard the hadiths will be considered non-Muslim. Those who argue eating jhatka as halaal food will be considered non-Muslim and the list goes on and on and in the end only I will remain a Muslim and no more.

Tell me why a person who clearly says anything against basic Islamic values or rule should be considered Muslim?

Its not like ‘my values’ or ‘his values’ …

Open Quran and it says
wine is prohibited.
Certain meat is prohibited.
Certain acts are prohibited.

If someone openly goes against Quranic teaching, promotes it, says that what Quran says is wrong… then that person is non-muslim. Why that person still wants to cling to muslimhood?
Why can’t that person be bold enough to accept the responsibility and repent?

There are certain important and basic charatstics which makes a person muslim or non-muslim and why there is problem in accepting this rule?

Why should anyone who writes a book making mockery of muslim faith or the Prophet (PBUH) still want to be called as muslim? Beats me!
I care less if S. Rushdi did or whatever he did. If he openly went against Islamic views then nothing wrong calling him non-muslim.

One can be temporarily non-muslim also…when commiting sinful act. As long as the person feels bad about it and tries not to commit the sin again.

A great thing in Islamic faith is its welcoming nature. If one repents, one is given assurance of getting Allah’s blessings.

**Now, one should not be liberal of calling everyone non-muslim if minor differences are present.
**

Please give us an example of any actual fatwa of calling a person non-muslim for the examples you gave?

(By the way, Hadees are categorised into strong and weak by great scholars so one can leave or just stay quiet about those which are weak but should not go against well accepted and strong hadees.)

Illiterate, confused and Jahil Ulema type people keep making remarks time to time (not so commonly as people believe) about other sect being not Islamic.

Please don’t make up things here in order to try some weight to your argument.

**Above all of this, everyone must look into his/her acts rather do fingurepointing.
**