this is a great column by javed ch…i know many of you hate javed ch for one reason or the other but pls do read this column. he has made a million dollar point. Yes we need infrastructure development in Pakistan really badly but what about developing social/organizational/functional/behavioral skills of common people of pakistan? people who are going to use that infrastructure dont even have basic civic sense..who will develop the human capital in Pakistan?
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
You cant develop a civil sensibility if you haven't civil infrastructure through which to develop it.
Should we teach people how to behave on buses, trains, and roads that dont exist ?
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
Many years back when I first visited Karachi after the completion of Mustafa kamal's many projects resulting in signal-free corridors, highways, flyovers one thing was clearly noticeable. Nobody, literally nobody was respecting traffic rules or not even following ethical code which comes with common sense. What I see was a total chaos despite hving the best of structure. And don't forget that Karachi is supposed to be the city of "Parha likha" tabqa. Highly unfortunate it is.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
javeed chaoudry seriously ?
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
You cant develop a civil sensibility if you haven't civil infrastructure through which to develop it.
Should we teach people how to behave on buses, trains, and roads that dont exist ?
not sure what you mean...why are you making it a chicken or egg problem?
today we have buses, we have bridges, we have mosques, we have trains, we have schools, we have restaurants, we have roads
and yes we need more of them, a lot more and no one is saying that govt shd stop building infrastructure until people develop civic sense. it is not chicken or egg problem.
but the question is: are common people using the existing infrastructure appropriately with some decency? i mean mosques are the biggest example. you can go to any mosque (bigger or small) and toilets will be dirty, people will jump over each other, will not shut their cell phone etc. You travel in PIA and you get flavor of this article. our current traffic sense is there for everyone to see.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
javeed chaoudry seriously ?
you probably didnt even bother reading the article.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
Many years back when I first visited Karachi after the completion of Mustafa kamal's many projects resulting in signal-free corridors, highways, flyovers one thing was clearly noticeable. Nobody, literally nobody was respecting traffic rules or not even following ethical code which comes with common sense. What I see was a total chaos despite hving the best of structure. And don't forget that Karachi is supposed to be the city of "Parha likha" tabqa. Highly unfortunate it is.
yes a karachite friend told me about it. he actually made an interesting observation..he said that as the infrastructure improved in karachi and as middle class got a bit more richer over the years, our traffic problems in karachi compounded because more and more people bought cars and scooters but no one had any civic sense or traffic sense and it became a total chaos.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
you cannot instill sensibility, decency and mannerism by making another organization i.e., human capital development authority. this is plain stupid thought. the same people who love to break all rules in this country, obediently follow all laws and rules when they go abroad, pay taxes, act decently and sensibly.
so where lies the problem?
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
simply put, there are rules but no rule of law.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
this is a great column by javed ch...i know many of you hate javed ch for one reason or the other but pls do read this column.....
I don't hate him. It is painfully obvious that he distorts facts, figures and history to make a point. I wouldn't be understating if I'd call most of his 'articles' complete BS and attempts at attracting facebook shares.
This column is another one of his stupid rants. You cannot 'enforce' ethics on people through an organization. Even if you make it, who will enforce their regulation?
Law enforcement is the issue. The things he has mentioned are mostly illegal already. Enforcement is not there, and it can only go top down.
Cleanliness and ethics in mosques: should come from mosque leaders.
Damaging government property: already illegal, police not doing their job.
Cleanliness in public places: Health department.
Mobile phone etiquette: Will an authority come and regulate it? Can't we regulate ourselves?
Traffic rules: Already in place, no one bothers to enforce....
I could go on but don't have time for this BS.
We already have loads of laws and regulations but they are never implemented because the rich and powerful do not want them to be implemented. Would they make an authority to teach bloody civilians how to act like decent human beings while they themselves are at the lowest standards of ethical behavior?
What can we do? Start with ourselves, our family, streets, area, mosque, etc. Surely, we should not need government coming in to tell us that it is not nice to talk loudly in mosque when people are praying nearby?
And finally, this beacon of ethical behavior Javed Chaudhry, himself has been spotted bribing a porter at Karachi airport so that he can bring in his latest purchase (a nice large TV) without paying customs duty. I am sure that many many of Pakistan expats who continue to rant about corruption in Pakistan day in and day out follow the same route when visiting Pakistan (I personally know some who do).
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
Javed Ch lost it...
The same Pakistani people behaves the moment they enter MW domain in Pakistan, they behave the moment they land in foreign lands and they come back to normal the moment they land back to the country...reason???
It canT be HRD, it is something else...if Javed Ch knows it...it is the same thing which got him get his brother to beat the s hit out of Shahzeb Khanzada....
The thing is , we think we are above the law...it is as simple as it can get...
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
this is a great column by javed ch...i know many of you hate javed ch for one reason or the other but pls do read this column. he has made a million dollar point. Yes we need infrastructure development in Pakistan really badly but what about developing social/organizational/functional/behavioral skills of common people of pakistan? people who are going to use that infrastructure dont even have basic civic sense..who will develop the human capital in Pakistan?
don't worry , we can do nothing
because staring of our vehicle is in hand of 12 jummat pass intellectuals
they have no value of human being
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
human capital development authority is a stupid idea as no authority can instill civic sense....it is a long process which will start at home and then at school and or madrassh and then maybe at university level and will finally instill into societal dna....but his other observations are right.
i have also realized that in most of similar discussions we guppies tend to keep our discussion lenses focused on our own class (medium to high class, somewhat privileged)...we need to think outside that zone.. we have 150 million people who live in villages and towns...we shd think how to instill civic sense in them....NGOs shd focus on those type of projects..govt shd do its part....we privileged one shd do something about them as they make up 90% of our society.
but we will keep discussing educated people behavior...educated people know the civic sense and act idiotically in pak coz law enforcement is not there and once laws will be strictly enforced, they will behave properly..but what about other 150+ million? bhai sahib unn kee baat karo.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
talking about under-privileged classes of our society, you cannot expect good morals from them unless they are well-fed and not living the life of a sub-human. Government should create such an environment that they can earn a decent living. Usually, when lower classes are considered, aides and stipends etc. are announced. Beggars can never be good citizens. They should be helped to stand on their feet. then a sense of self-respect should be instilled in them that even if they are doing some janitorial job, they are respectable. No thanedaar or richie rich has the free right to insult them just because of the kind of job they are doing or because of their low income. I don't know how this can be done. but once this level is achieved, rest is not that difficult to achieve.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
talking about under-privileged classes of our society, you cannot expect good morals from them unless they are well-fed and not living the life of a sub-human. Government should create such an environment that they can earn a decent living. Usually, when lower classes are considered, aides and stipends etc. are announced. Beggars can never be good citizens. They should be helped to stand on their feet. then a sense of self-respect can be instilled in them that even if they are doing some janitorial job, they should not be insulted at any levels just because of the kind of job they are doing or because of their low income. I don't know how this can be done. but once this level is achieved, rest is not that difficult to achieve.
Cannot agree with you here. Rich and well-to-do people of our country are not icons of morality either. While it is true that poverty or lack of education can induce one to behave immorally but I don't think income levels determine general civic behavior. It is just that most of the illegal, immoral and unethical behavior of the economically privileged class in our country is hidden from public eye.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
the issues of haves and have-nots are different. What I said were points very specific to under-privileged classes.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
don't worry , we can do nothing because staring of our vehicle is in hand of 12 jummat pass intellectuals they have no value of human being
your comment has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
btw, the current 12 jammat pass (according to you) are doing much better than the fake degree holders
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
What an ignorantly classist argument presented by the OP that reeks of age old rotten colonial mentality. Utterly pathetic.
You know what, those poor, underclass illiterate villagers would love to have easy access to all facilities and opportunities without having to pay a penny in bribe at government offices and police stations. They would love to follow rules where they won't be asked to pay bribes, but their work will still be done. Those children in villages would love to go to nice 'English medium' schools to get oh so civilised education and not be beaten black and blue by abusive teachers in semi ghost schools. Those underclass and uneducated villagers would love to have a system where they would feel empowered by genuine civic rights which no local political goon or landlord would be able to steal or abuse! First give those people equal rights, then ask about responsibilities!
I love it how like typical self congratulating "educated" snobs don't realise that it is that dammed "somewhat privileged" class which responsible for giving bribes, misusing their status, abusing their connections to beak all rules and regulation to get easy or lets say go scot free. A poor Rickshaw driver cannot afford to pay Rs5,000 bribe to avoid road ticket, but an educated, urban and somewhat privileged twit can pay any amount or ring any Uncle to get away with anything from breaking road signal to rape!
It's pathetic how easily working class community is so casually and conveniently demonised (or dare I say dehumanised) in Pakistan? Don't you guys have anyone who challenges this crap?
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
Discussing anything from electoral crimes/loopholes, badly followed rules and laws to or genuine backwardness, just blame the uneducated rural population to demonstrate a false sense bourgeois moral superiority, and showcase a complete avoidance of any sense of collective responsibility.
It's getting quite tiring how arm chair critics love to find quick cosmetic fix and punching bags from the population, but the gits like Javed Ch nor his Facebook fans would ever question the deeply rooted social and economic equalities in the country - which is the root cause of all evil in the country - what factors are contributing to it and how can we get rid of it. Yes, we love to scream to about how Western secularism and equality model is so great, but you know what how it came about? When people finally stood up against the Church and Monarchs to wage a war against economic inequalities and social injustice. Read a thing or two about how the whole idea of equal citizenship came about and when State finally found the moral ground to demand greater civic responsibilities from the citizens.
Re: yes we need infrastructure development in pakistan but?
talking about under-privileged classes of our society, you cannot expect good morals from them unless they are well-fed and not living the life of a sub-human. .
chugtai sahib, not sure if this discussion is about expecting or not expecting good morals from under privileged ones or discussing economic disparity. there are many under privileged who work hard and make their livings and will have good morals. i think the article was primarily about instilling certain civic traits in our whole society regardless of class... for examples why are our mosques dirty? if you are born and raised in pakistan and have been to mosques in villages, towns or cities on a regular basis, you would know that every mosque has dirty toilets. why is that? why cant molvis or madrasas teachers make it their no 1 responsibility to teach their students how critical it is to keep cleanliness .
you go to towns or cities which are more economically privileged than villages, you will find the same behavior there as well. Mosques will not be clean. Same behavior about the restaurant cleanliness or traffic. if you go to murree or any other tourist spot, you will find so much dirt, plastic bags everywhere. dumping trash at the right spot is completely alien to everyone in Pakistan
The other strange behavior i have observed all my life..if you travel in wagons or public buses, you will realize people love to tear seats or damage them for no obvious reasons. They will take a blade out and make a cut in brand new seats ( saw this myself few times) or will put the smoking cigarette into the seat. why do they love to damage public infrastructure so much? many metro buses in lahore have already been damaged by such behavior. why?
these are just some examples and question is how can we use social media or tvs or run some public campaigns to change some of these societal behavior. I know in USA for example, they ran a huge public campaign using tv and commercial ads in 70s about raising awareness about cleanliness at public spots and against plastic bags and it was a huge success.