That my dear boy is treason and punishable by death. If you have a problem with the Pakistani state i suggest you firstly change your nationality and then ignore pakistan.
Sadiqaan just because you dont have control or you have military government does not mean you dis-integrate the country.
If you wish for a seperate country by all means fight for it. We will crush you.
[/QUOTE]
If the people are denied rights, it is well within international law to fight for self determination from the occupier. And your generals also thought they would crush the 1971 Bengali freedom movement.
Ping Poon it's gonna happen. Baluchis don't want to be ruled by you guys.
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Who are "you guys"?
So if Balochis don't want anything to do with "us", why are there more Balochis in Pakistani areas outside of Balochistan than inside Balochistan?
Do you think Iran will let go it's part of Balochistan? Not a chance
Somebody here mentioned it before, people are willing to criticize Pakistan all day, but who provides a solution? What is the real problem in Sindh, Balochistan and Southern Punjab for that matter.... It's feudalism. Balochis and Sindhis can blame "you guys" (like they always do) - or they can point the finger at themselves and start making changes to their backwards culture.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
If the people are denied rights, it is well within international law to fight for self determination from the occupier. And your generals also thought they would crush the 1971 Bengali freedom movement.
[/QUOTE]
Bengali freedom movement? pfff! 30 years down the road they are still an LDC. Their leader was killed by his own people. Plus from a personal point of view i personally think there should have been no east pakistan. BD should have been independent from Day 1 of 1947. But its great to see how they are doing.
As for your first sentence. I guess that applies to kashmir, chenchnya, palestine, aceh etc etc. Right? Or no...maybe...wait was the question again?
Sadiqaain, International Law??? if it would have been that easy under international law to gain independence and fight for your right of self-determination, there would have been no kashmir, Chechnya, LTTE... so on and so forth. What are you guys talking about?? Neither Iran or for that matter any country would support and could afford another crisis to emerge out of the blue and that too in this already conflict prone region. The best thing that the leaders can do is to exploit this situation and exract maximum benifit for the Baloch people instead of inciting them to take up arms against the government.
I feel for the CM Jam Yousuf for he seems to be the lone ranger calling the shorts in his province.
Why Ballooch and sindhis see everything from federal govt with skepticism. I agree that there was some unjustice done in past but now that govt is keen on development why you see it with suspicion.
I was not present at that time but i think now that Ayub khan’s decision to build Islamabad was a great decision.
Was it to favor punjab ?
Was it unfair with sindh ?
It was niether. Developing a new city in any country has far reaching advantages. I have not studied economics much but seen and observe this
Shifting the capital, eased the burden on karachi, which was and is most important city of pakistan.And commercial hub in the region.
Generation of work, empoyment, new opportunities invited people to come and settle there and that further eased the burden of poppulation on already big cities like lahore and karachi.
Any economist can write a book on how much great advantages are there for building a new city.
Now if it is happening in ballochistan, which is already late but nevertheless. Why the hell are you people against it.
It is all good for the people of Ballochistan. Cant you simply see the good future holds for you.
Bengali freedom movement? pfff! 30 years down the road they are still an LDC. Their leader was killed by his own people. Plus from a personal point of view i personally think there should have been no east pakistan. BD should have been independent from Day 1 of 1947. But its great to see how they are doing.
As for your first sentence. I guess that applies to kashmir, chenchnya, palestine, aceh etc etc. Right? Or no...maybe...wait was the question again?
[/QUOTE]
So what? At least they are free to speak their mother tongue, write in their language, do with their resources as they see fit. This alone is worth fighting for. Otherwise we would all have been better of under British rule.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Minerva: *
hopeless!
Sadiqaain, International Law??? if it would have been that easy under international law to gain independence and fight for your right of self-determination, there would have been no kashmir, Chechnya, LTTE... so on and so forth. What are you guys talking about?? Neither Iran or for that matter any country would support and could afford another crisis to emerge out of the blue and that too in this already conflict prone region. The best thing that the leaders can do is to exploit this situation and exract maximum benifit for the Baloch people instead of inciting them to take up arms against the government.
I feel for the CM Jam Yousuf for he seems to be the lone ranger calling the shorts in his province.
[/QUOTE]
Jam Yousuf can only read the script handed down from Islamabad. He's not calling any shots. I'm not saying that a freedom movement is the best alternative in the present circumstances, but for most Sindhis living in the deprived areas without any government assistance, freedom from oppression of govnt sponsored waderas is the only choice. Unless Sindhis and Balochs feel as part of the genuine democratic process of Pakistan, no one can extinguish their lust for freedom.
Code_Red, some injustice? Shows how completely the Sindhis have been ignored when the current injustice of water deprivation is not even noticed.
I read Jang newspaper once and a while and to me it seems like a newspaper of another country. The main topics for the columnists and editors are Iraq, Kashmir, India, Al-Qaeda, Afghanistan, all of which a common Sindhi has no interest in. The main topic of interest is the water calamity that Sindh is facing and in Jang you only get to read about this once in a blue moon and that too many times from a biased anti-Sindh perspective.
This year there are less rainfalls, so obviously everyone knows that there is shortage of water. There are representative of all provinces in IRSA. And they decide according to need and supply.
If there is not enough water then there is no use of crying. It is due course of nature. We can only counter this problem through planning. And what I observe that people of sindh are against any kind of planing:halo:
If you check the record, in last 10 years on avg every year around 25~30 million acre feet water goes into sea through kothri. Why dont sindh utilise some of this water ?
So what? At least they are free to speak their mother tongue, write in their language, do with their resources as they see fit. This alone is worth fighting for. Otherwise we would all have been better of under British rule.
[/QUOTE]
Right so that means you support Kashmir, Chechnya, Aceh, Palestine etc. That means that Israel is an aggressor. That means India is an aggressor. That means Russia is an aggressor.
I readily accept we were at fault. Will you accept that those 3 and the US are at fault and violating basic human rights and heck have no moral values whatsoever.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
......Jang newspaper's ... ..main topics for the columnists and editors are Iraq, Kashmir, India, Al-Qaeda, Afghanistan, all of which a common Sindhi has no interest in. .......
[/QUOTE]
So do a common Punjabi, Balochi, and Pathan. None of them have an interest in MAToo issues of Palis, and Iraqis. Just ignore these commie, leftie, and MAToo slaves.
The topic of this thread was to improve Balochi future. Here is what I said:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Antiobl: *
Some of the possible actions urgently needed are:
Setup technical colleges for training Balochis
Business taxation to encourage entrepreneurship
Development of tourism for uplifting Baloch masses and exposing them to service industry
Following Talib, MAToo, AK47 culture will only bring hardship to Baloch people.
Then tell me why Punjab has no water problem, or at least to the degree that Sindh has? The water shortage is artificial, created by the non-supply of water downstream, and the construction of upper river dams and canals that further divert water from Sindh.
Every Punjab politician blames nature, but the facts speak otherwise. IRSA has been reduced to a rubber stamping authority as the Punjab government rarely follows it’s directives.
Right so that means you support Kashmir, Chechnya, Aceh, Palestine etc. That means that Israel is an aggressor. That means India is an aggressor. That means Russia is an aggressor.
I readily accept we were at fault. Will you accept that those 3 and the US are at fault and violating basic human rights and heck have no moral values whatsoever.
[/QUOTE]
Of course, where did I say that the state has not been the agressors in these conflicts? It is due to Sindh's peaceful nature and sufi tradition that we do not indulge in terrorism.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by elahi: *
So if Balochis don't want anything to do with "us", why are there more Balochis in Pakistani areas outside of Balochistan than inside Balochistan?
[/QUOTE]
Who are these 'us'? And many Balochs tribes are living in Sindh, lower Punjab and DGK because Balochs conquered and ruled over these areas for hundreds of years. FYI, thousands of Balochs died while defending these areas against Sikhs and later against British agression.
Gawadar, what i perceive should be a good port city, with more emphasis on Hotel industory, recreational facilities and business activity, more or less like dubai
Local population should be trained in technical fields so that they may get bigger chunk of jobs in future.
I dont know much how GDA is working, but they should bound the investors to employ atleast 60% of their wrokforce from Gwadar. If there are is deficiency of technical expertise then they (investor) should open a vocational school to train people for job.
You do. Ok what is the difference between the above examples and that of Sindh.
Shawaiz, Treason is punishable by death and that is exactly what you suggest treason. The seperation of a state for no valid reason is treason.
Secondly what is politics 101? I was giving you some advice. You dont like Pakistan. Your problem.
Now please show me the valid greviences that Sindh and Balochistan have. Remember I stipluated valid. Not what your nana told you when you were 2 years old.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Shawaiz, Treason is punishable by death and that is exactly what you suggest treason. The seperation of a state for no valid reason is treason.
Suggesting a clause that would give the provinces right to separate from a country in case of a miltary coup is not treason. But the military dictator Musharaf has committed an act of treason under article 6 of the 1973 Constitution which in punishable with death penalty, hang him.
Secondly what is politics 101? I was giving you some advice. You dont like Pakistan. Your problem.
Don't put words in my mouth. Where did I say that I dislike Pakistan and please keep your advices to yourself I don't need them.
Now please show me the valid greviences that Sindh and Balochistan have. Remember I stipluated valid. Not what your nana told you when you were 2 years old.
Stick to the topic at hand. Don't drag my family members into it.
Who are these 'us'? And many Balochs tribes are living in Sindh, lower Punjab and DGK because Balochs conquered and ruled over these areas for hundreds of years. FYI, thousands of Balochs died while defending these areas against Sikhs and later against British agression.
[/QUOTE]
Thats great dude, I solute them
If you are asking who are "us" that was my exact question to the guy who originally used the term.
In terms of this debate I think the bottom line is that changes are needed in Pakistan, theres no question about it.
1. The army needs to get out of politics.
2. It's time regional sentaments were respected. Local governments should hire local people and use local languages. That does'nt only mean that the government of Sindh and Balochistan use there local languages, but in Punjab, Punjabi should replace urdu.
3. Power needs to be decentralized and quotas should be established in schools and govt that require certain amounts of every ethnic group be hired.
Despite all this, I still think Pakistan is the best solution to the problems of South Asian muslims. I don't think that anybody would argue that if Pakistan were dissolved tomarrow, Hindus would control the destiny of everybody living in South Asia. If the options are to be dominated by the BJP and divided into provinces or the current situation, I would choose what exists now. At least India is still somewhat accountable to Pakistan for it's actions.
