Re: Yazid
also may I add there is little to be explained "Succintly" about these events and personalities anyway since they have such profound religious implications for all sects [except probably the khawarij] ....having said that some events are too wellrecorded and accepted by historians to be dismissed as merely propoganda which is what revisionists authors commonly tend to do
Re: Yazid
and Ali[as] and his sons as ummayyad governers? lol
let us see what the authenticity of this "discovered" diary is which challenges the commonly agreed facts by all historians whether it is tabari, baladuri, ibn hajar, ibn atheer etc
also plz tell me which magian assainated Ali[as] ?
Brother you are rekindling what you told me to stay away from. Anyhow... you say facts of history, even when history is written, rewritten and then morphed overtime.
Re: Yazid
Oh heck no. Don't accuse me of igniting anything. If you folks can't discuss out this piece of history in a calm way, like you would with most other parts of history (I don't see people getting this heated up over Helen of Troy), then that's your own fault.
What I wanted to see is what documented atrocities did he commit - and mention who documented it - simple. I understand that Sunnis and Shias might not agree on the historical aspect, but I was under the assumption that both groups are united in thinking that Yazid was a problematic factor of his time, and a terrible leader. I just wanted to see a concise list of his atrocities as a reference. Which I'm not seeing, and I dont have time to read endless pages of bickering, thanks.
Re: Yazid
PCG-
What most of us know is what our Mullah told us or what we learned from our grandmothers.
I suggest you pick up a book to figure out Yazid or contact an Islamic Studies Professor in some university to ask him the question online. Sometimes they will refer you to reputable publications. Thats how i do it.
Re: Yazid
[quote]
Brother you are rekindling what you told me to stay away from.
[/quote]
okay we are both guilty ....:)
[quote]
Anyhow... you say facts of history, even when history is written, rewritten and then morphed overtime
[/quote]
.
[/quote]
this is exactly waht i mean by revisionists who cast doubts on commonly accepted historical facts by bringing in farfetched theories
Re: Yazid
[quote] Oh heck no. Don't accuse me of igniting anything. If you folks can't discuss out this piece of history in a calm way, like you would with most other parts of history (I don't see people getting this heated up over Helen of Troy), then that's your own fault
some events are not just a piece of history but are of religious as well as historical importance.
Did you ever think why Quran narrates so many historical events?
[quote]
What I wanted to see is what documented atrocities did he commit - and mention who documented it - simple. I understand that Sunnis and Shias might not agree on the historical aspect, but I was under the assumption that both groups are united in thinking that Yazid was a problematic factor of his time, and a terrible leader.
[/quote]
again not ALL authors/historians are agreed on this point either ,but yes the vast majority are
[quote]
I just wanted to see a concise list of his atrocities as a reference. Which I'm not seeing, and I dont have time to read endless pages of bickering, thanks.
[/quote]
1-event of karbala
2-event of Harrah
3-Siege of Makkah
and some other things about his personal character the authenticity of which I am not sure of.....however the one thing which both he and his father did which had the most farreaching consequences was the seperation of religion and state ....from then onwards the reqirement of a muslim ruler to be the a virtuous muslim and to strictly implement the shariah ceased to exist .....
the "endless pages of bickering" is also called historical debate which unfortunately you have to read [or atleast try to] if you want to study history objectively.
Re: Yazid
PCG- What most of us know is what our Mullah told us or what we learned from our grandmothers.
I suggest you pick up a book to figure out Yazid or contact an Islamic Studies Professor in some university to ask him the question online. Sometimes they will refer you to reputable publications. Thats how i do it.
thats a good idea
Re: Yazid
Mind you, dont confuse Yazid r.a the Leader, and Yazid r.a. the Muslim.
Musharraf is a Muslim too, doesn't mean he is an "islamic" leader.
Re: Yazid
^ so how does the (r.a) exactly fit yazid????
at what stage did yazid accept Islam????
dont forget that even the grandfather of yazid falls under the category of "tulaqaa" about whom even the Quran has said that they wud never be equal to those who accepted Islam in the ealier stages....
Re: Yazid
Peace PyariCgudia
Seems as though you still have no proof of Islamic corruption ... perhaps you should move now to the Ottomon empire.
Yazid May Allah give him what he is due, he may or may not have been a good leader, we can't say, for the good reasons that hypnotix-2000 makes, but I don't agree entirely with all his reasons.
Rebelling against Kh. Yazid would have been wrong ... even if it is established that he may not have been good then people should be weary of challenging authority to prevent greater fitnah. That is the reason why even though some Sunni people believe he was not good that he still was Khaliph.
I personally don't know I don't care either unless it suits a purpose of trying to find bad examples of humans within the community if Islam.
For Makrani post #6 ... I do du'a to Allah (SWT) that should Kh. Yazid be from the good that I am raised with him and if he is raised from the bad then I am not, and that Allah (SWT) Knows what I know not and so he gives me humility in never assuming to know a matter when it is based on mere conjecture. Ameen.
Re: Yazid
^ so how does the (r.a) exactly fit yazid???? at what stage did yazid accept Islam????
dont forget that even the grandfather of yazid falls under the category of "tulaqaa" about whom even the Quran has said that they wud never be equal to those who accepted Islam in the ealier stages....
Peace armughal
Even if it is agreed about what you say regarding "tulaqaa" how can you possibly blame the son of a son for any transgressions of his repentant grandfather ... Or else we are saying that sin is inhereted?
Ibrahim (AS) ... his father was an idol creator.
Furthermore since when does a person born in a Muslim family have to 'accept Islam?' Surely, they grow up accepting it?
Re: Yazid
^ was questioning his being regarded as a sahabi.... nothing else....