Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
what a random question. I suggest you read up about the ongoings before and after kerbala before asking such questions.
mr fraudia: from what i know, abd ush shams and hashim were not real brothers in that Abd as shams was adopted by hashim's father (Abd Manaf). So they werent cousins as such although like armughal said banu umayyah were bitter rivals against banu hashim....aswere the abbasids, and the enmity carried on etc..
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
right, so even if you see the sites yourself, it wouldnt matter, because having the Prophet’s family marched through streets and imprisoned is not a big deal to you.
i can give you sources from Tabari, which I believe is where the one hadis where Yazid blames ibn ziyaad is sourced from. Unfortunately you would deny Tabari as authentic.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
ARMughal is right, Yazid did not persecute any of the killeers of Imam Hussain, hence he cannot be innocent.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
Salam, My Dear Brother & Sisters do not qoute any thing where you dont have ethentic reference, I will explain all story which will opens you eyes .
FIRST WITH HOLY QURAN
"Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein..." (42:23) a group of companions asked "O Prophet of Allah, who are those of your relatives whose love has been made obligatory on us by Allah?" The Prophet replied, "They are Ali, Fatima, Hasan, and Husain." Some hadith contain the words "and their sons," meaning Hasan and Husain.
According to AHLE SUNNAT Great Books and authors that the above verse is for the five only and they have Hadith in the following books.
ABOUT VERSE MUBAHILA: :Of course, our first argument is from the Qur'an, which is the strongest Divine evidence, namely the Verse of Imprecation (Ayah-e-Mubahala) in which Allah says: "And to him who disputes with you therein after the knowledge has come to you, say 'Come, let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves and then let us invoke and lay the curse of Allah upon the liars.'" (3:60) Notable ulema, such as Imam Fakhru'd-Din Razi, Imam Abu Ishaq Tha'labi, Jalalu'd-Din Suyuti, Qazi Baidhawi, Jarullah Zamakhshari, Muslim bin Hujjaj, and many others, have written that this holy verse was revealed on the Day of Imprecation, which was the 24th or 25th of Dhu'l-Hijja in 9 AH and ALSO ASHRAF THANVI in QURAN Tafseer.
YOUR SON: HASSAN AND HUSSAIN
YOUR WOMAN: FATIMA
YOUR SELVES: MOHAMMAD(sws) AND ALI (as).
NOW HADITH:
Bukhari and Muslim in the Sahih, Allama Samhudi in Ta'rikhu'l-Medina, Abu'l-Faraj Bin Jauzi in Kitabu'r-Radd Ala'l-Muta'asibu'l-Anid, Sibt Ibn Jauzi in Tadhkira-e-Khawasu'l-Umma, Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal in Musnad and others quote the Holy Prophet as saying: "If anyone frightens and oppresses the people of Medina, Allah will frighten him (i.e., on the Day of Judgement). He will be cursed by Allah, by the angels, and by all humanity. And on the Day of Judgement, Allah will not accept any of his deeds."
AHLE SUNNAT VIEW ABOUT YAZID:
Mas'udi, in his Muruju'z-Dhahab, Volume II, says that the character of Yazid was like that of Pharaoh, but that Pharaoh was more just to his subjects than Yazid was. Yazid's rule brought disgrace on the fair name of Islam. His wickedness included drinking wine, murdering the Prophet's son, cursing the Prophet's successor, Ali, demolishing the House of Allah (Masjidu'l-Haram), and mass killings. He committed countless transgressions against divine law, sins which are unforgivable.
The majority of ulema have cursed Yazid. Abdullah Bin Muhammad Bin Amir Shabrawi Shafi'i in Kitabu'l-Ittihaf be Hubbi'l-Ashraf Raji' ba La'n-e-Yazid, page 20, writes that when the name of Yazid was mentioned before Mulla Sa'd Taftazani, he said: "Curse be on him and on his companions and helpers." Allama Samhudi in his Jawahiru'l-Iqdain, is reported to have said: "The ulema in general have concurred that it is permitted to curse him who murdered Imam Husain, or who ordered him to be murdered, or who sanctioned his murder, or who agreed to his murder."
Ibn Jauzi, Abu Ya'la, and Salih Bin Ahmad, arguing from the verses of the Holy Qur'an write that, "It is proven that cursing Yazid is permissible. It is the duty of all Muslims that they should know the rights that Imam Husain has over them, and how, with the strength of his suffering oppression and tyranny, he watered the tree of Islam with his own blood and the blood of his family. Otherwise, that blessed tree might have died because of the tyranny of the Bani Umayya. It was Husain who gave Islam a new life."
YAZID OWN STAEMENT AFTER MASS KILLING IN KARBALA:
Abdullah Bin Uzza Ba'ri. Sibt Ibn Jauzi, Abu Raihan, and others have written that Yazid wished for the presence of his ancestors, who were all infidels, and were killed in the battle of Badr on the order of the Prophet. Yazid said: "I wish those of my clan who were killed at Badr, and those who had seen the people of the Khazraj clan wailing (in the battle of Uhud) on account of lancet wounds, were here. They would have hailed me with loud cries and said: 'O Yazid, may your hands never be paralyzed' because I have killed the chiefs of his (the Prophet's) clan. I did so as revenge for Badr, which has now been completed. The Bani Hashim only played a game with government. There has come no message from Allah, nor was anything revealed. I would not belong to the Khandaq family if I had not taken vengeance on the descendants of the Prophet. We avenged the murders of Ali by killing his son, a horseman and a brave lion."
OTHER INFOR ABOUT YAZID(Lanatullahe)
Sibt Ibn Jauzi in his Tadhkira, page 63, says that some of the people of Medina went to Syria in 62 A.H. When they learned of the sinful deeds of Yazid, they returned to Medina, broke their allegiance to him, cursed him, and turned out his Governor, Uthman Bin Abi Sufyan. Abdullah Bin Hanzala (Ghusilu'l-Mala'ikat) said: "O people, we did not revolt against Yazid until we verified that he was an irreligious man. He killed the descendants of the Prophet, illegally associates with mothers, daughters, and sisters, drinks wine, and does not offer the ritual prayer."
SOME PEOPLE STILL DEPENDING HIM AND IGNORING QURAN AND SUNNAH.
ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
It is said about Yazid that he denied 'ordering' the killing of Hazrat Hussain RA but as indicated by ARMUGHAL Yazid didn't prosecute the killers which then endorses killers actions. When Yazid was nominated to be the succeeding ruler by his father people objected on that and criticised that act, Yazid is then 'reported' to correct his actions and giveup womenizing/wining etc.... but then there are reports that he didn't really change much to warrant the responsibility of a "Muslim" ruler.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
what are your sources that he was into womenizing\wining
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
I dont think anyone here is saying that he was a righteous ruler or a good person really. I just wanted to share some other info that I found while reading.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
Well you have to go back in history to the civil war that followed Prophet Muhammad's death to fully understand Yazid and his hate for Hazrat Ali's family.Yazid's father and grandfather were against Hazrat Ali and his family because they thought he had a hand in Hazrat Osman's murder,they thought Hazrat Ali profited from the murder of Hazrat Osman as he became the caliph after his death.It was also believed by Yazid's family that Hazrat Ali did not stop the rebels from murdering Hazrat Osman and later these rebels were not caught or punished,also Hazrat Osman's body was not buried for several days after his murder and when they did burry him ,they did so in a jewish graveyard.Following Osman's murder Islamic empire plunged into a bloody civil war which even saw Hazrat Ayesha fight a war against Hazrat Ali in which she was defeated,Hazrat Ali was eventually murdered and Umayads who had opposed hazrat ali came into power as a result of that and Yazid was one of the ummayad caliphs.I don't think he was any worse than the rebels who murdered Hazrat Osman and were supporting Hazrat Ali.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
Yazid was great grandson of the Prophet (peace be upon him)'s uncle.
He was from the line of Hazrat Abou Sufyan Razi Allah Taala who was uncle of the Prophet (PBUH).
There is no historic evidence of Yazeed slaying the family of Hazrat Hussein ( RA) except for shia stories. Even as a child i found these stories exaggerated. I am sure that Hazrat Yazeed was a better Muslim than us.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
true, it is a bit sad that the murderers of hazrat osman are not discussed as much.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
speak for yourself mate.
Yazeed la’een was hardly a muslim, and even if he was it was by name only. Do you guys not read up on anything?
Lahab was also an uncle of the Prophet - didn’t stop him and his wifey from being the fuel of fire.
And Like wise your hazrat la’een will be keeping him company. SO like it or lump it, that’s the ‘bitter reality’.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
My Conclusion on Yazeed:
1st things first:
Hussein R.A. ONLY opposed yazid because Yazid had not yet gained power as the caliph.
**IF **Yazid had gotten his authority right away, then Hussein R.A. would have pledged allegiance to him. This is why when he neared Kufa and realized people had given allegiance to Yazid, he said four things one of which were “Or I give my hand in the hand of Yazid as a pledge of allegiance”. (See: Tarikh al-Tabari, 4/313).
Appointing a successor was not wrong. Abu Bakr r.a. chose Umar r.a. then **after Abu **bakr r.a.'s death the prominent people decided if his decision was right or not.
In the case of Yazid, AbdAllah ibn Umar r.a. opposed yazid's rule as well as Hussein r.a.
So BEFORE YAZID GAINED AUTHORITY Hussein r.a. set out to stop him, because he didn't want a Tyrant Ruler over the muslims.
Anyways, circumstances led to events, and ibn Ziyad would not listen to Hussein r.a. and neither would Hussein r.a. to him. So they fought.
THERE IS NO CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT YAZID KILLED OR ORDERED THE KILLING OF HUSSEIN r.a.
Therefore we cannot curse someone without having any evidence towards him.
ANother thing is that, **LETS ASSUME **for a second he did kill hussein r.a. We still cannot curse him because he is not a kufr, he only committed a grave sin.
Lastly, cursing someone won't give us reward in the hereafter, Allah swt won't ask us "did you curse yazid!:O"?
see what I mean?
On a side note, this is the only thing i don't realize about shias .... why attach religious significance to the event at kerbala? Why?
Your deen was completed by the Prophet pbuh, so why make up new rituals and practices based on what happened years after his demise?
Thats what I don't understand.
For me, History is History, I focus on my Quran and Sunnah, not on things that happened afterwards...my deen was completed for me.
If two individuals had a dispute, so be it, they're sitll muslims, and that dispute is between them. I mean you had incidents where Ali r.a. would bury Muawiyah r.a.'s soldiers and vice versa, when the fighting stopped.
So in my opinion, cursing anyone would not get us anything...and attaching religious significance to things not part of deen (disputes etc) is not our job.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
Read in history book... these were mentioned aside from wasting time in hunting, being a care-less person etc.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
you are hypocrite...thats what you really are...stop pretending that you have respect and love for Prophets Family (pbuh&up)
shia sunni historians both have recorded what really happend to Bibi Zainab (a.s.) and Imam Hussain's (a.s.) other relatives after his death..yet you come here and defend this low life
you have no shame
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
^ actually sunni historians, and normal historians do not speak the same things shia historians might speak.
I have shame, i don't blindly curse people for no reason. This is the reason i set out to investigate this.
Thanks for calling me a hypocrite, really i thought that was Allah's job.
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
Historical View of Yazid aside from Sunni and Shias:
Although presented in many sources as a dissolute ruler, Yazid energetically tried to continue his father’s policies and retained many of the men who served him. He strengthened the administrative structure of the empire and improved the military defenses of Syria, the Umayyad power base. The financial system was reformed. He lightened the taxation of some Christian groups and abolished the tax concessions granted to the Samaritans as a reward for aid they had rendered in the days of the early Arab conquests. He also paid significant attention to agriculture and improved the irrigation system of the Damascus oasis.
hmm interesting. (Yazid I - Wikipedia)
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
I more or less follow the same approach as Cresent.
As muslims we cannot curse a Sahabi or Taba Taabi. We don't know what happened back then and should show restraint in blaming anybody.
The Legend has it that the imperial persians did treachery and they wanted to see either Hazrat Hussein or Yazeed getting killed. We very well know that Persians never liked the Arabs
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
couple of points.
The whole tone of this thread is disengenuous. This post
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=4467668&postcount=32 was
your point of view before you started it in the name of getting information. But it is easier to get people to respond to queries than advocacy, thus the pretence of innocuous investigation and the whole “im just asking” tone.
To take the high moral ground and say that you dont “curse” Yazid because hes still a Muslim who committed a sin, is the same logic as not “cursing” Salman Rushdie, or not “cursing” Irshad Manji, or not “cursing” Ibn Saba. If your objection is merely the “cursing” then you can condemn people without using street language.
What reward would you get from “cursing” Salman Rushdi?
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
Cursing is not the Islamic way. If cursing was Islamic...the Holy Prophet instead of preaching Islam to Kuffars ...would have cursed !
If the Prophet didn't cursed the kuffars who can we curse Muslims? A muslim does good deeds n bad deeds and please dont take the divince whip in your hands! only Allah will decide who goes to hell and who goes to heaven.
Yazeed was a Muslim and we pray to Allah for his Maghfirat
Re: ~! Yazid? Was he really what they make him out to be?
What is the definition of Kufr? There are two things that put someone outside the fold of islam.
1. Committing shirk (or anything related to it)
2. Making something halal - correct or right. (Which is already condemned as haraam)
Salman Rushdie and Irshad Manji are not muslims, becuase they’ve obviously done the above mentione 2 (or either one).
I still wouldn’t curse them. Because Allah knows their state better. Prophet pbuh didn’t teach us to curse and hate people…thats something we developed on our own.
Secondly, I did start of knowing nothing, then ivestigated, and i’ve concluded on that post you just quoted. I agree with everything in that post.
I’ve read shia texts on it, and i’ve read sunni texts , and even texts from nonmuslims.
and i’ve concluded it on that basis. Shia texts do get a lil exxagerated tho… some stuff just doesn’t seem to compile up… sorry. for me anyways.
Yazid was a Muslim, and we have no clear evidence of his act in killing hussein r.a. and his family. And assuminghe did kill them, its a grave sin, and Allah will punish him for that, it still doesn’t give us rights to writing qasidas about his tyranny, and cursing him day and night.
Because Allah knows best.