//The kind of accusations you put up and they way u do it determines what response you get from people. If you start blaming religion of other people, do not expect a gift in return.
//
I am not talking about a gift. I expect a person to disagree with me without being disagreeable. Hope you understand the difference. But then I dont think you can with your kind of upbringing.
Are you telling me that there were large scale demonstrations in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the like.
My point was not with reference to the demonstrations, it was with reference to your argument that people dont condemn acts of atrocities on muslims. If that was so, why these demonstrations against the US. Go figure..
Here too, I dont think you will understand because ......
//You're doing no favors by supporting Islam or being a Muslim. //
I (we) understand that we are not doing any favours by supporting Islam. I try to raise my voice against injustice. That is all. When you see a bunch of idiots running around proclaiming that democracy is bad and the west is going to the dogs( but still stay in the west) then I have issues.
Still it has not entered your tiny mind that, if u have become so upset coz of few words (supposedly) directed to YOU, how would other people feel when you blame their religion. I won’t be furious if someone criticisez ME but i do get offended when someone accuses my religion of being responsible for terrorrism.
What Quran says…is a compromise with Kufars possible?
We cannot discuss a selective history. Muslims easily consume whatever is written in their favor and reject the antithesis as rubbish, garbage etc.
How the Prophet reacted to the people who rejected the Ayats, the non-Muslims, the unbelievers…. is really interesting as well conflicting at different places. And every time there is only one pretext……the context.
Is the history prior to 10th century not folded into myths? …….Muslims never attacked non-Muslims….I really want to believe this theory but I will have to reject the complete mid centuries Indian history.
Dar-ul-Islam, the land of Muslims and dar-ul-harb, the land of war……how a compromise with kufrs is possible?
Quran, in majority of the Ayats, dictates only one thing…the difference between a Muslim and kufrs……… how a compromise with kufrs is possible?
Sometimes I feel that people like Bin Laden are true Muslims.
We really believe that Jews lived a soft life under Muslims to the point that no one objected to this myth for certain reasons……
Frankly, I cannot agree with you. Muslims are good people. Though, I doubt if they are good people because they are Muslims, but they are good because they are just people like people of any other community.
Discussion board is not a right place to find sincerity. Just, be friend with Muslims….you will find absolutely different people.
Anjjan-- If you could spare 5 minutes of your precious time and read the link I provided, you will find that the pact of Hudaybia was completely endorsed by Quran at that time. Your link is not any differnet than thousands of propoganda websites.
If you are really interested in tollerance of later Muslims then please read the detailed biography a person *Salahuddin Ayubi (Saladin)*by non-muslim historian and kindly tell me in simple words why they admired him so much
In india, Just tell me why muslims (Mughal) ruled for many centuries and majority lived happily and peacefully , yet Britain had face a massive Ghaddar (Mutiny) after some decade of partial rule ?
Rashguy Every noticed (if you ever lived in subcontinent )if there are several hundereds of houseflies sitting at a cheap sweet shop, but only one or two disturbs the owner so much that he gets irritated and find ways to get rid of them all.
Ever witnessed attack of honey bee ?? Are honey bees voilent by nature ??? No. by nature they are most peaceful and work in organised manner .
Ever heard of guy AbduSattar Edhi ?
He save hundreds of lives daily, and provides food and shelter to hundreds of thousands of people , He has the biggest private networked ambulance service in the world. And he and his wife are doing charitable work for last 50 years in Pakistan. His services for humanity beyond the discrimination of race/religion are no less than mother Teresa by any standard.
He is 10 times more deserving candidate for Nobel peace prize than the chosen clowns every year. But wait ! He disqualifies at the first step
He is a muslim, has a long beard and operates in a muslim country.end of story :k:
An article from “Christian today”..Hmm, interesting..How about if was to write an article in an Islamic journal and present it to you? would i be proving a point?
The point which most of us tend to miss is the fact Muslims, Christians, Jews etc can be from diff. backgrounds and different walks of life with their own cultures etc. They may bring in their own beliefs which can be misunderstood for religion.
I agree 100% that there is chaos in the muslim world. I would also blame the Muslims for the state they are in. But i won’t say that it is due to Islam. If a product has a bad representative/s then who to blame, the product or the representative/s?
As for Osama B.L being a true muslims , who are we to say?..If he is really what the western media have portyrayed him to be ( with no sound evidence!!) then i believe him to be a poor representative and a disgrace to Islam..But we don’t even know who the hell he is yet alone where he is. And frankly i give 2 hoots..Its the west that have made him what he is.
I don’t agree that people are good only b’cos of thier personality (according to anjjan) and nothing to do with religion..I see prisoners as part of my profession atleast once/week..Let me tell u that extremely violent criminals have changed thier ways on returning to religion(Mostly to Islam..and i’m not telling u this just b’cos i’m a muslim..i’m giving u facts!!)
Its strange that people synoymise Islam with violence. If that be the case then can some one tell me why it has been & continues to be the fasting growing religion in the past 50-60 yrs.
Not only that, How many of u critics can tell me that during this spread, how often in the past 50-60 yrs has Islam been spread by the sword?..Strange is’nt it?
A violent religion is the fasting growing yet no invasion of other countries or brutalities leading to mass conversions.
And anjjan, you have mentioned that Quran differentiates b/w a muslim and kuffar..Of course it does. What else do u expect a book that gives a complete way of life to say..If there was a book written on heart conditions it would tell u what to do and what not to do to look after your heart with case scenarios..basically, advice on how to look after your health.
Similarly hte Quran tells us the difference between being a Muslim and Kuffar ( literally meaning non-Muslim).
Finally some of us like using the word extreme and moderate Muslims..This i believe has been a successful plot by the west to cause a divide ..And i tell u, we have fallen for it badly..Islam is a religion of peace and moderacy in everything ( even in worship) is advocated and extreme in any form abhored..If someone has taken things to extreme then he has fallen out of the tenets of Islam so calling him her an extremist Muslim is absolutely wrong as it has nothin gto do with Islam..Unfortunately, what has now been portrayed is that whoever has a beard or wears a hijab is labelled an extreme Mulim even if they abhore violence and eevn if they’re getting on with thier lives like everybody else..I follow the basic fundamentals of Islam..I’m proud to say that i follw the 5 pillars of Islam..Does that make me an intolerent extremist?
Perceptions are often deceiving..We need to look at the bigger pictuer and see what all this is really leading towards.
Code_Red…I make this point earlier that only admirations are acceptable as per your logic. You cannot analyze criticism. Why non-Muslim historians remain silent against Muslim atrocities is well noted in the web link…..
// given is a point of historical importance. A very solid argument……
The Mutiny of 1857 took place in North and Central India. The soldiers were servicing under one command, a soldier of one state was posted in another state and the communication and interaction helped them to prepare a ground against the atrocities by the British.
What was the setup of Mughal (or earlier Muslim) rulers…….The Mughal (or earlier Muslim) empires were based on Subas or Riyasats and every Suba/ Ryasat had its independent army. Army of one Suba/ Ryasat had no connection with the army of another Suba/Ryasat.
Can you tell me a single decade when a Suba/ Ryasat did not revolt against the centre during Muslim rule, including the Mughals?
Punjab, Rajasthan, Maharastra never give up to the Islamic rule….they were always on revolt.
Why the Mughals had to kill Sikh Gurus, burry their minors alive into walls? Was that not for crushing revolts?
The Mughals (or earlier Muslim rulers) never appointed any Indian Muslim to high posts, armed or ministerial. In fact the Indian Muslims had no approach to the palace.
Shahjahan built the Jama Masjid and appointed the Imam of Bukhara as its Mufti and not some Kanpurya or nagpurya.
What you are proud of for Muslim rule?
Precisely my point anjjan. In this age of the more educated, literate and well versed in worldly affairs, there are more turning to Islam.
And by the way, You are right, in the middle ages, the spread of diff. religions did take place via invasions and mass conversions.
Thanks for verifying my point!!!!
But you cannot tell me why mass conversions have become a thing of past? Why it was easy to convince or compel the illiterates, uneducated of Arab countries, central Asia……..Today in our age of education and communication we find no mass conversions?
And if you do not mind…… after so many centuries of Islamic acceptance why many Arab countries, central Asia and Afghanistan are still living in dark ages….hence Islam is religion of knowledge?
Anjjanji, I cannot but more than agree with u that the Arab and middle eastern countries are living thru dark ages..but is it right to blame Islam for that? I personally have lived and seen the ways the arabs like to live their lives and the only word i have for them is "Hypocrites".
However, it is equally important to remember that after the birth of Islam in those regions, scientific advancements were at their peaks ( this is the time the westerners like to call "The Dark Ages", as we know that history only revolves around the west)..and many of the the west innovations of today are still based on the basic concepts laid down by the Muslims of the day...To put it in a nutshell, Muslims have suffered and are suffering as they have moved away from true Islam.
Regarding your other point about why mass conversions cannot take place..well, like i said in my previous ( and i'll repeat again)..it is precisely the reasons u have given.
1. Education
2.Human Rights
3. Communication
And on top of all this the US of A would tear the country to shreds ( unless it was Israel) whoever attempted to do so.
Looking back into history we'll notice that different eras had different ways of doing things.When mass conversions took place it was not considered evil to attack and invade another country.We are an an age of Supercomputers and and advanced Sci-fi know how.
My point is that even with all the muslims shorts comings, predicaments,hypocrisies, lack of education, accusations of it being a terrorist religion etc, Islam remains the fasting growing religion..and i'm not talking about illiterates converting. I'm talking about it being the fasted growing religion in the west, ie in the more educated, communicated part of the world.
Hope that satisfies your query.
It would be interesting to hear your viewpoint or what exactly point u are attempting to make.
Doc_2000….Islam-a fastest growing religion thru conversion is a myth spread for different reasons, sometimes even by the Western and Christian press.
I will not argue if you convince me that Islam is a fastest growing religion thru birth rate.
For that reason I raised the issue twice why the mass conversions were possible among illiterates.
Next point is that you want to credit Islam for scientific progress among Arabs and for all irregularities that have remained intact among Arabs and in central Asia even after centuries of Islamic supremacy…..you do not find reasons in Islam……is not it funny or a little hypocritical?
By the way some Arabs were interested in scientific inventions and astrological studies much earlier to the invention of Islam. Islam is more or less credited for a halt in the progress.
Do you credit Christianity for all scientific progress in the West? An honest answer is expected!
