To you everyone is born innocent ... And you are not against premarital sex ... Are you saying that you are not innocent or are you saying that premarital sex does not remove you of your innocence? Either way ... That is something people need to learn from you ... If they get to know you closely enough.
no im not against premarital sex. but even if i were against it, a child born out of wedlock didn't choose to be born that way so either way, that makes no sense to discriminate against someone whos born the way he/she is.
go with piety if piety means the ability to make a good pie.
if its that prayers and voodoo kind of piety that cant even instill basic morality, no thanks.
But it can and does ... Prayer prevents a person from many sins.
quran.com/29/45
Recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do.
I'm wondering whether the Muslims who agreed with your post knew about this ayat in the Qur'an.
But it can and does ... Prayer prevents a person from many sins.
quran.com/29/45
Recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do.
I'm wondering whether the Muslims who agreed with your post knew about this ayat in the Qur'an.
Prayer is intended to prevent immorality and wrongdoing but does it always? Unfortunately no.
There are individuals who engage in terrible behaviour, such as abusing their spouse, mistreating their family, and backbiting left and right but also pray five times a day and believe that because they pray, they are absolved of all wrongdoings. You can say "oh, well people who pray regularly are not likely to do that" but that does not change the fact that there are most certainly people who do just that. I believe this is what queer was referring to.
Prayer is intended to prevent immorality and wrongdoing but does it always? Unfortunately no.
There are individuals who engage in terrible behaviour, such as abusing their spouse, mistreating their family, and backbiting left and right but also pray five times a day and believe that because they pray, they are absolved of all wrongdoings. You can say "oh, well people who pray regularly are not likely to do that" but that does not change the fact that here are most certainly people who do just that. I believe this is what queer was referring to.
Mez...Allah says in Qur'aan that "salaat protects you from foHashiyaat [immorality and evil deeds]"
however, it is so if iyt is done in the way it is supposed to be done...unfortunately, offering salaat has just become a ritualistic act devoid of any spirituality and concentration. we don't even understand the Quraan's language. how can we concentrate and be sincere to what we pray.
it is said that most people's salaat doesn't go above their heads, let alone reaching the 'arsh [Allah's throne].
sar sajde meN, dil daGhaa-baazii meN
[head in prostration and heart seeking evil]
Prayer is intended to prevent immorality and wrongdoing but does it always? Unfortunately no.
There are individuals who engage in terrible behaviour, such as abusing their spouse, mistreating their family, and backbiting left and right but also pray five times a day and believe that because they pray, they are absolved of all wrongdoings. You can say "oh, well people who pray regularly are not likely to do that" but that does not change the fact that there are most certainly people who do just that. I believe this is what queer was referring to.
If they do these things, you can't blame the concept of prayer itself. The prayer is not the problem, it is the individual. Ibadat doesn't automatically make one perfect. It's a lifelong process of growth and development, there will be mistakes along the way.
^I am not blaming prayer itself nor did I state that prayer causes people to do these things. I stated that prayer doesn't always keep people from doing immoral things as some people allege.
How would you find out that one of them is born out of wedlock? Unless they are not careful enough to hide that fact ... If they were equal in piety, equal in looks, equal in earning power then they would still be unequal in lineage ... So it makes sense to go for the one who is overall greater ... But if the person was the only choice, the only rishta at the time and you found out he was illegitimately conceived ... then the other facts being high are that much more important, but the highest will be his piety even averaging in that on first appearance might not be a risk worth taking.
this is where the problem lies. i mean if two persons are equal on all aspects then why should one select the one whose parents were married and not the one whose parents weren't married.
And how come having a married parents guarantee a good lineage??
Not quite ... Family name earns itself a reputation through time ... There are always black sheep and there are always white doves ... And that is not a racist comment ... But yeah ... High lineage is the prophetic lines. A person conceived and born out of wedlock does not have any lineage ... Their fathers are not recognised.
If you look in past threads regarding children born out of wedlock ... I heavily defended them ... I still do ... So please try not misunderstanding the subtly of what I am saying.
why a person conceived out of wedlock does not have any lineage? the fathers might not be recognized but they do have fathers and hence a lineage as well.
and that lineage could be a high and good lineage, because people belonging and born to very good, pious families can sin too, can have kids out of wedlock, but does that means they have a bad lineage?
suppose a man had R/S with someone, had a kid and then abandoned the kid and the woman. he marries someone, had kids with her legitimate partner. Now these kids and that kid he had, have same father, same lineage, but you will term the kids born after marriage as having a lineage and the one born out of wedlock as someone having no lineage?? i find this mentality ridiculous and baseless.
bro, you can't decide on my behalf. i KNOW what i said...you make that kinda statement because you don't know me personally. right? :)
a child born out of wedlock is NOT illegitimate...illegitimate are the parents who sinned. the child was born innocent like any other child. why anyone would deny the child his/her right to lead a normal and respectable life?
that child has every right in the world to enjoy life given by God, not his/her parents.
one point i would like to make. Even the parents should not be termed as illegitimate. They have sinned but might have repented and ALLAH Might have forgiven them and might have a rank higher than most of the other pious people. i mean we don't really know for sure who stands at a higher place for ALLAH.
one point i would like to make. Even the parents should not be termed as illegitimate. They have sinned but might have repented and ALLAH Might have forgiven them and might have a rank higher than most of the other pious people. i mean we don't really know for sure who stands at a higher place for ALLAH.
i didn't talk about whether the parents repented or not. i said that parents illegitimately brought a child in this world. so, the child was NOT illegitimate [as the word 'Haraamii" is given to them in our culture]. it was the illegitimate relationship of parents who can rightfully be called an 'illegitimate' parent.
btw, some major sins aren't forgiven without kaffaara being paid and having a child out of wedlock is one of the major sins.