95% of our problems today are traced to the Zia era when we jumped on to a war that resulted in militants arriving and thriving on our soil. I’m just curious if the scenario would have been different were there a civilian leadership helming the affairs? If so, then we better do the good deed today and start with absolute civilian control of all our assets, defence included.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
I think the plan had mindshare within the civilian establishment altogether. The only ones opposing were leftists, who would have been all too happy to see soviet tanks in Islamabad.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
^^ Leftists = Bhutto supporters?
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
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Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
95% of our problems today are traced to the Zia era when we jumped on to a war that resulted in militants arriving and thriving on our soil. I'm just curious if the scenario would have been different were there a civilian leadership helming the affairs? If so, then we better do the good deed today and start with absolute civilian control of all our assets, defence included.
Yes unfortunately we cannot dwell on what could have happened. Zia was a dictator who was created by the same external money that created all other elected and non elected oppressors in Pakistan.
KHAD, narcotics, bomb blasts illegal movement of aliens invited under the guise of "brotherhood" by the then "amir-ul-momineen" Mr. Haq, all negatively influenced our society and ppl.
The ppl of Pakistan can do something about their future. They can elect a true leader from the ppl and a non-fuedal and non-industrialist next time. Lets see.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
^^ Leftists = Bhutto supporters?
Not exactly, but certainly radicals and ideologues among them.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
^^ Leftists = Bhutto supporters?
Can you explain how Leftists=Bhutto supporters? Really an idiot would think like that. Had Bhutto continued or some other really elected democratic civilian government in place, he would have never allowed jehadis on its land nor helped Sam to fight his proxy war. That Zia-ul-Haq, prolonging his illegal rule of 11 years, wiping the big fat @sses of Sam and his CIA activists, supported by yet illegetimate polictal parties who were funded by Sam, like JI and co, getting $5 Billions are 100% responsible, yet another humiliation after 1971 for Pakistan army.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
^
Source
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
Can you give more details about what you said? It never says that they recruit jehadis like osama bin laden to fight proxy war of Sam against russians. ZAB was never in good books of Sam right from begining, he was always looked under suspicion of creating Muslim block and initiating the making of nuclear bomb. Before you write something nonsense and stupid like above, read what Henry Kissenger said against him, during 70’s fuel crisis in West.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
Can you give more details about what you said? It never says that they recruit jehadis like osama bin laden to fight proxy war of Sam against russians. ZAB was never in good books of Sam right from begining, he was always looked under suspicion of creating Muslim block and initiating the making of nuclear bomb. Before you write something nonsense and stupid like above, read what Henry Kissenger said against him, during 70's fuel crisis in West.
Are you saying Gulbadin Hikmatyaar was not one of the key players in Afghan "Jihad"? The seed was sown under Bhuuto's watch, Zia nurtured it, and AlQaeeda is the fruit. Denying history will not change the facts. The sooner we learn from past mistakes and grow out of rather ignorant "uncle sam doesn't like this or that" argument, the better future we may have.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
“with blessing of President ZAB” seems to be a lie and subjective reporting. In 1974 Bhutto was PM and not the president as wrongly reported. Further more camps were estabilished with the help of ISI to favour antiDaud movement, the Afghan leader and it had nothing to do with war with Russia. Again I know ZAB, he would have never allowed CIA jehadi agenda in Pakistan like Zia did in the 80’s. Read as follows:
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
95% of our problems today are traced to the Zia era when we jumped on to a war that resulted in militants arriving and thriving on our soil. I'm just curious if the scenario would have been different were there a civilian leadership helming the affairs? If so, then we better do the good deed today and start with absolute civilian control of all our assets, defence included.
A soviet controlled afghanistan and india on another side would have been a strategic nightmare. Think of it as this way: Pakistan has made numerous blunders in kashmir so does that mean kashmir was a stupid cause?
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
Can you explain how Leftists=Bhutto supporters? Really an idiot would think like that. Had Bhutto continued or some other really elected democratic civilian government in place, he would have never allowed jehadis on its land nor helped Sam to fight his proxy war. That Zia-ul-Haq, prolonging his illegal rule of 11 years, wiping the big fat @sses of Sam and his CIA activists, supported by yet illegetimate polictal parties who were funded by Sam, like JI and co, getting $5 Billions are 100% responsible, yet another humiliation after 1971 for Pakistan army.
Pakistan actually started supporting the run away mujahideen leaders (now NA like masood who died 10 years ago) after daoud khan came to power.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
A soviet controlled afghanistan and india on another side would have been a strategic nightmare. Think of it as this way: Pakistan has made numerous blunders in kashmir so does that mean kashmir was a stupid cause?
Zia's jehadi agenda for fighting Sam's war in Afghanistan and kashmir dispute are two different things. Don't compare apples with oranges. What Pakistan did in Kashmir was without the support of any super power. Infact Pakistan had to retract under pressure of Sam and Russia on Kashmir issue. On the other hand Sam was fully involved Zia in this bloody proxy war, Zia being most stupid president in Pakistan history did not realize the long term repurcussions of indulging in this bloody war. And yes he also committed one more blunder by creating mqm in Karachi in the eighties.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
The war against the soviets wasn't stupid by itself, but how Pakistan conducted it was and is the problem.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
The war against USSR was need of the hour, no way Pakistan could have afforded hostility on both sides of its border, the short-sighted one who don't see this, just look at the current scenario where, we have to deal with the American-held-Afghanistan in love with India and India on the other side of the border, and the bombings and the emergence of TTP and other radical movements in Pakistan...
The war was fought well but in the end, when Zia wanted to dismantle this monster, but Americans left, as always, and Pakistan was left with 3 million Afghan refuges (who brought their own culture) and Mujahideen with no front and country to go to...
PS: I won't answer to any rant of the any Jiyala
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
"Responsible civilian leadership?" When did Pakistan have that? Even when we had 'democracy', it has been the military that has dictated our policies. Remember fall of Dhaka? What's going on in Baluchistan?
If we did have a reasonable civilian leadership, we might have bargained for much more in terms of long term support from USA. Our military leaders do not have the vision beyond a few days, Mushy being the recent case of accepting anything daddy Sad demands.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
Responsible civilian leadership? lol yes but I guess it wouldn't hurt to find out now....
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
95% of our problems today are traced to the Zia era when we jumped on to a war that resulted in militants arriving and thriving on our soil. I'm just curious if the scenario would have been different were there a civilian leadership helming the affairs? If so, then we better do the good deed today and start with absolute civilian control of all our assets, defence included.
It was Bhutoo who laid foundations of Afghan Jihad in 1974 and not Zia-ul-Haq. If Bhutto had stayed, he would have done the same what Zia did.
Example, looking at the strategic need for securing country's eastern borders, Benazir Bhutto authorized and supervised support for Taliban takeover of Afghanistan.
Re: Would a responsible civilian leadership have allowed our proxy war against USSR?
Supporting Mujahideens in Afghanistan was the need of the hour. What would have been the other choice for Pakistan?Pakistan handled the war brilliantly and it took Pakistan more closer to the U.S .There was nothing wrong in that.