Re: worst in bribery survey
You guys.. go easy on Guy1. He is just a kid 
p.s he also believes Dr. Zakir Naik is not a ‘real’ scholar because he is Indian 
Re: worst in bribery survey
Guy1- You are right, but these “pakistanis” sitting thousands of miles away, think they know the situation in Pakistan better than those that actually live there. 
They support this govt for personal reasons, and will not admit to the corruption and crime that has been rising ever since Mush grabbed power.
You can mention all the ground realities, they will simply stick their head in the sand and pretend it’s not true
Re: worst in bribery survey
empty rhetoric and perceptions of ground reality is all I get here. why do my cousins in Karachi in arwas like FB area abd malir feel that theya re better off now than they were in the 90s? They are not living 1000s of miles away, so theie ground realities seem to be different than yours.
additonally, i referred to reports by economist and IMF etc which indicate that situation although not ideal, is mush better than it was in the 90s.
but what do people have to counter that, just jibes that ppl living 100s of miles away dont know ground realities and aside from their perceptions about ground realities no concrete evidence.
I say once again, pakistan was ranked #2 in corruption globally just a few years back. look it up…have we been even close to it recently?
how da ya like dem apples.
Re: worst in bribery survey
You mean your cousins worked hard and made somthing of themsleves?!.…good for them…we are supposed to be grateful to the dictator for their hard work? What sad reasoning you have given
As for corruption you can keep repeating like a parrot Pak #2 in corruption,the same organisation(TI) says people think its even worse now…something you conveniently ignore, or will make some excuse to justify
Those living in Pakistan are tired of people like you, thousands of miles away, telling us how great things are outside out front door.
The streets are full of crime and corruption, as bad as its ever been.
As I said, you will bark the same pro- Mush rhetoric for personal reasons, not because the country is progressing
How you like dem 'reality'?
Re: worst in bribery survey
Surprise! I live in Pakistan and i agree with Fraudia and don’t endorse your views!
Hmmm, allegations…could we say the same for you and the likes who whine about democracy and BB and Mian and Zardari and Bugti? That you miss them all so dearly because your 'khaataas’ have been closed since the corrupt shayateen have been barred and your survival is hard because there isnt as much nepotism, bribery, loan write-offs and contract awards? Or because you are extremely indebted to the mehrbaanis of these certain ‘good’ leaders…!?
whats not true is not true; head in sand or head in water, but not sure what happens when head’s in a bank locker counting the blessings of the past
Re: worst in bribery survey
Hmmm, allegations...could we say the same for you and the likes who whine about democracy and BB and Mian and Zardari and Bugti? That you miss them all so dearly because your 'khaataas' have been closed since the corrupt shayateen have been barred and your survival is hard because there isnt as much nepotism, bribery, loan write-offs and contract awards? Or because you are extremely indebted to the mehrbaanis of these certain 'good' leaders...!?
You can say whatever you want about me. If you don't like the fact that I want a decent, democratic govt, to progress my country, as opposed to the current crooks, that's not my problem.
You personal allegiance to the Army and Mush will not allow u to admit that the same bribery,contracts, nepotism you are hypocritically yelling about, continues under your dear Mush and Army.
The Transparancy International report showed that the people of Pakistan think it is even worse under the Mush govt than BB or NS....inconvenient for you, i know.
If you do live in Pakistan, you clearly live in a bubble, surrounded by your personal allegiances.
If you don't want to admit the obvious corruption filling the govt pockets, there is nothing anybody can say to you.
Re: worst in bribery survey
You know the difference between think and fact, right?
[quote]
If you don't want to admit the obvious corruption filling the govt pockets, there is nothing anybody can say to you.
[/quote]
There are different levels of corruption, one is street and one is within ministries (emptying govt funds without providing actual service/goods to the real people). I didn't get chance to go through the report or all comments but I see people mixing "crimes" with bribery. The crimes have definitely gone up (i.e. mobile snatching which often comes with shooting the victim) but that doesn't reflect on "bribery index" as that would be covered by corruption in LEAs which have been useless all along for several decades now. But I was positively surprised that the frequency with which police used to stop traffic/vehicles for "checking" (in fact for demanding 'chai-pani') has gone down.
Re: worst in bribery survey
TheRealDeal nay farmaya ..
You mean your cousins worked hard and made somthing of themsleves?!.…good for them…we are supposed to be grateful to the dictator for their hard work? What sad reasoning you have given
the point is the ground reality is different from different people's perspectives. You and your cohort presneted your perceptions as ground reality, i simply indicated that the ground reality is different from the perspectives of ppl living in Karachi.
As for corruption you can keep repeating like a parrot Pak #2 in corruption,the same organisation(TI) says people think its even worse now…something you conveniently ignore, or will make some excuse to justify
and therein lies the dilemma, if we were worse off than we were in the past then we would be ranked much worse on the corruption index, but we are not. At the same time people's perceptions of corruption of 90's indicates that they now think that 90s were great. Well unless they went back in a time machine and changed the reality noting changed in the past just their perceptions of the past.
So where to look to see how we are doing. I suggest again that studies by IMF and worldbank etc have indicated Pakistan is doing better.
*Those living in Pakistan are tired of people like you, thousands of miles away, telling us how great things are outside out front door. *
Actually only those with a chip on thier shoulder are tired, as I deal with ppl living in Pakistan, ranging from my cousins and friends all the wayu to my new friends on GS like Haris, I dont see anyone being tired.
*The streets are full of crime and corruption, as bad as its ever been. *
show me stats on crimes, and not just cell phone snatching, I want to see stats on violent crimes, murders, dakoos from inetrior sindh stopping buses and robbing ppl, houses being broken into and ppl being robbed on gunpoint.
come on, you are in Pakistan, dig up that info. show us peopel living thousands of miles away that there is substance behind your assertions and I will have no problem admitting that i was wrong. So far all that I have in terms of proof is the personal 'ground realities' of two posters who have a bias against teh current regime to start with. I also have a TI survery, which is eing touted without people going back and looking to the clarification by TI to note what it means and with ppl missing the inherent issue that a regime that 70% ppl thought was corrupt is noe considered to be corrupt by only 8% :) see the flaw there..
As I said, you will bark the same pro- Mush rhetoric for personal reasons, not because the country is progressing
Barking may be how you communicate, among civilized circles we converse and speak.
sadly the ppl in Pakistan who are shouting about increasing corruption and crime rate are not looking at the facts, but have an axe to grind with Musharraf on his foriegn policy, his handling of local idiots in waziristan and idiots like that baluch jackass who was blown up. That taints their entire view of the situation..and such is the case here.
How you like dem 'reality'?
nothing there to like, empty rhetoric, big on statements and lacking substance as before so no reality here to react to :)
Re: worst in bribery survey
abay haris zuberi
You must be a liar, because guy1 knows that there is not a SINGLE person in pakistan who says corruption has gone down.
so either you are NOT in Pakistan contrary to your claims
or
you are not a person
pick one.
Re: worst in bribery survey
Your right! The fact remains… as is in post #1.
Re: worst in bribery survey
this is not surprising at all given that all of the world's most corrupt nations, including india's neighbors, did not qualify for this survey. it was restricted to countries ranking in the top 30 list of exporters.
Re: worst in bribery survey
too late the hero..
Re: worst in bribery survey
After much contemplation I humbly conclude I can doubt option 2 more than 1 in this case and I’ll inevitably & humbly have to go with option 2–as I’m quite sure I cant doubt where I am at the moment
Re: worst in bribery survey
People who say corruption in Pakistan has gone up are missing all the convictions under the NAB.
Re: worst in bribery survey
You have defeated your own argument, NAB is a standing joke in Pakistan, a political weapon used against those who oppose the govt
Re: worst in bribery survey
a billion in bank defaults, 200 convicted politicians, 400 convicted bureaucrats and all this in the first two years of it. Former Army officers have also been charged with corruption offences, such as the the person who was chief of the naval staff.
Re: worst in bribery survey
'Convicted' politcians like Chaudry Shujaat, Faisal Hayat, Sherpao etc?
You mean the Navy chief they picked up because he was Zardari's man...then let go after a nominal payment? Army officers held accountable?....don't make me laugh!
Re: worst in bribery survey
You mean the Navy chief they picked up because he was Zardari's man...then let go after a nominal payment? Army officers held accountable?....don't make me laugh!
You call US$7.5 million from one Army officer not being held accountable? In fact the Army of Naval Staff's case was the first time in the history of Asia that someone living in another country was held accountable. A total of $1.5 billion that's been recovered already, and hundreds of convicted politicians (most of them lower ranking admittedly) show that the NAB has done a lot better than in the past and is putting corrupt people on trial.
The list of politicians you give is incorrect. Sherpao was convicted (2001, entered into a plea bargain later), the rest are probably the same. Just because the NAB gets it wrong sometimes, it doesnt mean it's not doing a good job.