We all love our parents, spouses, children brothers and sisters which cannot automatically be construed as worship. Admittadly, lines are crossed in love, but according to Quranic injunctions and teachings of the Prophet, being a Muslim requires in absolute Onnes of Allah, there can never be any association even thru the beloved Prophet. That would be 'Shirk'. If you know Muslims, then you wud also know how detetstable the word shirk is for any muslim.
Being a Muslim requires us to follow the Sunnah (teachings and actions) of the Holy Prophet, Quran also speaks of the Prophets closeness to the people, then how can we not love and adore the holy messenger? If love of the prophet is a crime, then so be it.
No stuwie its not my tactic. That was just one example of the many (of Jesus depicted as a tranvestite/homosexual/smackhead) from those very people - wait for it - whose ‘freedom of expression’ you seem to defend so eagerly. Why didn’t your ‘security of belief’ extend to my little expression? I can’t understand why you’re upset though. The sheer bloody cheek of it for you to even suggest it could be belittling or insulting!
Jesus is viewed by christians as the son of God, but they won't riot, boycott and demand an apology for this type of insult. Is it because they don't truly worship Jesus or because they are somehow more secure in their beliefs?
They damn well used to. I couldn't even imagine something like that occurring at the turn of the 20th century.
Christian sensitivities have lost sanctity. Christians are licked, that's what it is.
I have no interest in seeing anyone insult Jesus, and I do realize it's no big deal in the West. That's hardly because of Christian action on the matter...more like it's due to the fact that Christianity has been divorced from Western society.
Pardon me, but that's something we don't want to emulate...nor do we see it as a virtue. It's a sign of weakness.
But fine, convince yourself it's all about security and maturity...whatever.
Look, if Christ is the archetype of Christians, disrespecting Christ is in fact disrespecting all Christians. It's nothing I have to tolerate, and I'm not even a Christian. It's just intolerable human behavior, and I do not think that the principle of freedom of expression should take precedence over human decency and civility, especially when it's on that great a level.
It's the same reason I loath the anti-Semitism in the Arab/Muslim press. It crosses the line from being anti-occupation to downright racist and hateful.
What does this kind of speech accomplish other than discord?
Maybe it would be easier to explain how most Muslims' view of Mohammed does not equate to worship? What else could the kneejerk reaction that muslims have when their prophet is "insulted" be called, other than blind devotion?
Muslims view the Prophet (pbuh) as an archetype, hence emulation is a form of worshipping God, not the man. Our affinity to the man is his closness to God. Insulting him is insulting all of us by proxy...yet we would prefer to be personally insulted. The archetype then is the pristine we aspire to, and to have that debauched is emotionally taxing. Hence the heavy emoting.
I do not think Christians have as strong an affiliation with Christ, as with the death of Christ, there is a large disconnect one can't possibly relate to, and should not emulate. The concept of Sunnah would not work in that faith.
Picoico,
I would respectfully disagree. As a former Christian, I can tell you first hand how much of an affiliation church-going christians have with Jesus, and I would say that this extends further than it does in the ummah. The concept of "What would Jesus Do" is one that is (or was) very popular, particularly among younger christians.
I see what Stu is asking, and I think he has a valid point. If we were really to ask ourselves "what would our Prophet (saw) do?" in regards to the cartoons in the Danish media, I think the answer is clear - He (saw) would not riot or threaten to kill someone.
For instance, take the story of the old woman who hated the Prophet (saw) so much that each day she would wait for him to walk by her house so that she could throw her garbage at him. One day, as the Prophet (saw) passed by the old woman's house, she did not throw trash. Concerned about the old woman's well-being, he inquired about her health and was told that she was seriously ill. He visited her immediately, and the woman converted to Islam as a result.
When I accepted Islam, it was primarily due to the fact that I had studied extensively in the Arab world. Unfortunately, when I married a Pakistani man, I discovered that what is practiced in Pakistan, where I think that the reverence of the Prophet (saw) borderlines on shirk, and reminds me a lot of how Jesus came to be considered as divine in Christianity.
I do not think Christians have as strong an affiliation with Christ, as with the death of Christ, there is a large disconnect one can't possibly relate to, and should not emulate. The concept of Sunnah would not work in that faith.
If there don't have as strong of an affilitation, then how can Muslims accuse Christians of shirk or false worship?
Emulating Christ does not mean striving to be crucified. If one were to follow the teachings of Christ (which of course many Christians don't) - love, compassion, tolerance, reverence, pacifism, forgiveness, humility and charity - then they are living a spiritual life that God surely approves of.
Actually, they are indeed living the spiritual life according to the Bible…But not what you claim, but what;s happening in Afghanistan and Iraq:
“I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children.” (Leviticus 26:22)
“Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man.” (Numbers 31:17-18)
"The Lord commands: “… slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women” (Ezechial 9:4-6)
“When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males … As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves.” (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)
“You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.” (Deuteronomy 28:53)
"The Lord said to Joshua …] ‘you are to hamstring their horses.’ " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6)
“… Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones… every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy.” (Judges 21:10-12)
“This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass … And Saul … utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.” (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8)
“The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open.” (Hosea 13:16)
“A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD’s work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!” (Jeremiah 48:10)
Want more examples of **love, compassion, tolerance, reverence, pacifism, forgiveness, humility and charity **as you claim?
And they are not even taken out of context like non-Muslims do with the Quran…
True, such **love, compassion, tolerance, reverence, pacifism, forgiveness, humility and charity **can only be practiced by the loving, compassionate, tolerant, reverent, pacifists, forgiving, humble and charitable people like you say…
We saw it in WWI, WWII, during the wars of the Empires, Inquisition, witch trials, settling of the Americas, Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia and today in both Iraq
and Afghanistan…
Sorry Sem…I can’t be a peace and loving Christian like that…I’d rather be the violent Muslim that people believe me to be…
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What else could the kneejerk reaction that muslims have when their prophet is "insulted" be called, other than blind devotion?
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why is it blind devotion?
A knee jerk reaction is a natural reaction if someone you revere is insulted on a regular basis. Where worship comes into all of this, i've yet to figure out.
If Christians said, follow Christ as his actions are pleasing to God, and his way of worshiping is plesing to God, we wouldn't have squat to say to the Christians. BIG difference is in saying Christ IS God.
You say you defend democratic rights everyday yet it doesn't mean you agree with all of them...I don't get it...You defend rights which you know are wrong? Why?
Defending free speech is not wrong. While the message of the speaker or artist might be wrong or offensive to me personally the right to freedom of speech trumps that.
Sorry Sem...I can't be a peace and loving Christian like that...I'd rather be the violent Muslim that people believe me to be...
You are either dishonest or you really do not have a clue. Either way you are insulting and arrogant. I speak of the teachings of Jesus and you quote the Old Testament from an atheist site. I suggest you study the teachings of Jesus before you try to answer again. You are now insulting someone else's prophet.
No one is pulling quotes from Islamic scripture that portrays it as hateful and violent. You pose as a meek, misunderstood victim, your religion and prophet being insluted, and then do the very thing that you are imagining others are doing. Have some integrity.
I do apologize for suggesting you post in cafe, they are no more deserving of your deception, insults, pomposity or inability to stick to the topic instead of playing self righteous victim. So stick with video games until you can discuss honestly.
So you're saying that instead of idolizing the Prophet (sws) because we have an image of him, Muslims are idolizing him because we DON'T have an image of him? Please explain.
I never said the Danes 'were in the right'. I said they 'had a right'. By trying to put thoughts and intentions in others' words, you are either being intellectually dishonest or intellectually clueless. Simple question: which is it?
"had a right" to do what....insult a religion? emmm i don't think so somehow, freedom of speech does not mean insulting other religions, that is clearly what that publisher intended on doing and did. what else was he intending on doing by publishing the cartoons? its clear as crystal that he only did this to insult Islam and to insult muslims....
So sensitivities, feelings of other people, hate speeches, respect, sensibilities can all be ignored for this idiotic notion of freedom of speech?
I vividly remember you supporting Shaikh Yassin's murder...Where was you notion trumping then? Or is it sort of selective, let's say, a Muslim says it, then it's not freedom of speech but if someone else says it, we should support it...
I don't call this hypocrisy...I call it hate...When you deny the others the rights which you entitle yourself to, that is biased hate...