sigh Extremely predictable response.
Thanks anyways for sharing your thoughts. We will all continue to spin and perceive it the way we want to.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ex-Army: *
Long time. 280 million live in the US and less than a handful are protesting. The same world wide, a few million does not even dent the totsl number of people who live in this big world of ours. To think this handful speaks for all is just plain dumb. I support those billions who by silence have spoken louder than all protests combined.
[/QUOTE]
What is dumb and rather arrogant is to think that 280 million or so residing in US, speak for the rest of the world. If they have taken the Fifth Ammendment and are quiet, it doesnt mean they agree with Dubya and his warmongers. It just shows their apathy.
There were gonna be protest in Argentina and Brazil too…I am not sure if you guys mentioned it too…but seeing so many people turning out around the world was…:k:
Mr Imidad, that is such a PATHETIC generalisation. There were people from all walks of life at the protests and they were there because they DO NOT believe the lies and propoganda being spread by the Bush Administration about the threat posed by Iraq’s alleged WMD. They have seen weeks and weeks of unsubstantiated stories emanating from Bush & Co, they have seen sensationalised reporting by pro-war tabloids, they have seen even an Intelligence dossier written by a college student being praised by Mr.Powell at the Security Council. What a SHAM!!! These ordinary people are marching with their hearts and their minds against war. I salute these people. :k:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ex-Army: *
My hats off to the billions who understand that Saddam must be removed at all costs.
[/QUOTE]
Ex-Navy,
Please tell us when the "billions" demonstrated their support for this war i.e. through demonstrations in support, referendums or specific votes (on this issue) in assemblies by their elected representatives?
Also, take note these were the biggest demonstrations in British history, and the biggest demonstrations since the Vietnam war and the second world war in many other countries. Additionally, most of these LARGEST demonstrations occured in the few American allies in this war-mongering e.g. the UK, Australia and Spain.
I am sure it is easy for you to ignore the voice of millions of millions of people around the world, because you believe that American opinion should be world opinion, but you do that at your ignorance and peril.
Malik, If I might add: The "millions" that are supporting Bush for military action against Iraq (some 60% I think) in the polls, do so on one condition that US should go to war thru the blessing of U.N as an international consensus. The question asked in those polls doesnt state if US should go to war w/o the UN backing.
Yes very good point. I don’t believe the vast majority of American people want to go it alone against the rest of the world, which the Bush regime should heed for the good of America.
Here is an article about the HISTORIC demonstrations in Australia, where people are simply awed at the numbers…
Sydney walks in numbers too big to ignore
It’s awesome. The front of Sydney’s march for peace arrived back at Hyde Park while tens of thousands of people were still waiting to join the march. We’re talking twelve city blocks here. As I write, people are still leaving Hyde Park on the walk half an hour into the speeches at the march end! A colleague who marched in Sydney in the 1985 Palm Sunday march (170,000 people) and the Sydney Harbour bridge walk for reconciliation (200,000 people) said it was even bigger. Some are saying 250,000, the biggest protest in Sydney’s history. Some are saying it could be closer to 500,000! City shoppers were dumbstruck, hundreds lining the march route eyes wide, mouths open.
At the head of the protest marched three old, battle scarred men of Australian politics - Laurie Brereton, NSW Labor right hard-man and an opponent of any Australian ground troops if the UN gives the US the tick, Green icon Bob Brown and Peter Baume, Fraser Government minister, all shouting “No war”. The trio summed up the incredible diversity of people there in the stinking, sweating heat - North Shore matrons rubbing shoulders with skinheads, young families with strollers, groovy trendoids angsting over which anti-war T shirt to buy. A friend of said on Friday she knew it would be big because friends kept calling to say, “What do you wear to a protest?” How Sydney. It’s easy to get carried away at the sight of the people of Sydney reclaiming the city to make their point, but something this big has to have an effect. As does a turnout of 5,000 in the country town of Armidale - a quarter of its population.
It’s now hard to see Labor finding a way to support the war if the UN doesn’t endorse George Bush’s war - even if only one country exercises its veto. Simon Crean wasn’t scheduled to speak at any march this weekend, but it looks like the 150,000 people marching in Melbourne on Friday night changed his mind. This weekend could be one of those “turning points”, where suddenly the earth moves, the mood shifts, and politics is transformed in an instant. This morning on the Sunday program, Laurie Oakes said to foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd: “Carmen Lawrence is out there giving fiery speeches to these demonstrations. Why aren’t you and Simon Crean addressing rallies as well?” “Well, Simon will be speaking to the rally here in Brisbane today, Laurie. I’ll be attending that rally as well,” Rudd replied. Labor is getting locked in. It can’t afford not to, unless it wants to throw votes to the Greens.
Rudd also added another refinement to Labor’s policy. Before, it would consider agreeing to a unilateral US strike if one country vetoed a UN resolution for force. Now it will also require the very thing the United States has been unable to deliver so far. “If it gets to the stage where the United States was seeking to advance a case outside the framework of the United Nations Security Council that case would have to rest on establishing a link between al-Qaeda and Iraq and the events of September eleven,” Rudd said. “Or secondly, that Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction capability and threat represent a real and present danger not just a theoretical danger to our security today. As of today, no such case has been made.” That’s very close to a no. Very close. The stage is set for a rip roaring political battle in Australia where the NSW election could become a defacto referendum on the war. Howard’s very legitimacy could be at stake if he defies public opinion to join a unilateral strike. Soldiers do not die for the Prime Minister, of for the Australian government. They agree to risk their lives for the Australian people. If the Australian people say no, there will be calls for the Senate to bring down a government which wishes to defy the people’s will on war. Sydney rarely matches the activism of Melbourne on the really big issues, let alone beats it hands down. Right at the front of the march, behind Laurie Brereton, walked two of his factional opponents, Labor left shadow ministers Daryl Melham and John Faulkner. If the people’s voice isn’t enough, the threat of a split in the Labor Party is. Labor will now take on this cause. John Howard’s work will have just begun when he gets home from his “peace mission”.
“We want our prime minister to listen to us, we don’t want war with Iraq,”
Sydney rallies against war on Iraq](BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Sydney rallies against war on Iraq) BBC News
[thumb=A]sydney300ap.JPG[/thumb] Australians are cynical about US intentions in Iraq
Hundred of thousands of people are attending a huge protest against a possible US-led war in Iraq in the Australian city of Sydney. We want our prime minister to listen to us, we don’t want war with Iraq. It is the latest in a series of an estimated 600 peace rallies around the world this weekend which around eight million people so far have attended. Saturday saw massive marches in New York, Rome, London, Paris, Berlin and many other cities worldwide.
The Australian Government strongly backs US President George W
Bush’s tough line on Iraq. But the Sydney protest is the largest seen in the city since the days of the Vietnam War in the late 1960s, and the BBC correspondent there says there is deep cynicism among the crowds about American intentions in pursuing Saddam Hussein.
An estimated 250,000 people are thought to be present at Sydney’s march, with marchers - many middle-aged with children - waving banners, banging drums and chanting protest songs. I don’t know that you can measure public opinion just by the number of people who turn up to demonstrations “We want our prime minister to listen to us, we don’t want war with Iraq,” marcher Thomas Aitken told Reuters news agency
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Ex-Navy,
Please tell us when the "billions" demonstrated their support for this war i.e. through demonstrations in support, referendums or specific votes (on this issue) in assemblies by their elected representatives?
Also, take note these were the biggest demonstrations in British history, and the biggest demonstrations since the Vietnam war and the second world war in many other countries. Additionally, most of these LARGEST demonstrations occured in the few American allies in this war-mongering e.g. the UK, Australia and Spain.
I am sure it is easy for you to ignore the voice of millions of millions of people around the world, because you believe that American opinion should be world opinion, but you do that at your ignorance and peril.
[/QUOTE]
Silence can speak louder than words and in this case does. Less than 1% of the world population has spoken through these peace rally's. Again less than 1 %. The other 99% have spoken volumes.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ex-Army:
Silence can speak louder than words and in this case does.
[/QUOTE]
Don't take "silence" as consent, because that is the mistake you people made over Vietnam. You have provided no proof to support your claim, except your personal and biased opinion. So I will ask you again please tell us when the "billions" demonstrated their support for this war i.e. through demonstrations in support, referendums or specific votes (on this issue) in assemblies by their elected representatives, and even opinion polls?
P.S. When was the last time in the recent history of the world you saw such HUGE demonstrations?
Failed-Army, Silence has spoken in the opinion polls which show that the vast majority of the worlds population strongly oppose war. :k:
In Europe only a handful of countries have said they would support war against Iraq… even than, the majority of the public within those countries oppose their Governments policy with Iraq.
Polls show European public opposed to Iraq war](Clarifying the Complex | Homepage | Thomson Reuters) Reuters
Pics of protests:
[thumb=A]wy4.JPG[/thumb]
Protesters spell out “NO WAR” in Madrid, Spain.
[thumb=A]wz1.JPG[/thumb]
Several hundred thousand people march past the Westminster Clock Tower (Big Ben) towards Hyde Park in London.
[thumb=A]wz3.JPG[/thumb]
Thousands of Turkish protestors demonstrate in Istanbul.
[thumb=A]ws5.JPG[/thumb]
People pack central Dam square during an anti-war protest in Amsterdam.
[thumb=A]nyc2.JPG[/thumb]
Anti-war protesters rally near United Nations headquarters in New York.
[thumb=A]hollywood1.JPG[/thumb]
Thousands of people march down Hollywood Blvd.
Hungray - 82% against
Spain - 80% against
Denmark - 79% against
France - 73% against
Italy - 72.7% against
Germany - 72% against
UK - 68% against
Czech Republic - 67% against
Poland - 63% against
Those in bold are the “new Europe” that Rumsfeld talks about. I am sure the same is true for practically all the other countries, save a few…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 5Abi: *
Pics of protests:
[thumb=A]nyc2.JPG[/thumb]
Anti-war protesters rally near United Nations headquarters in New York.
[thumb=A]hollywood1.JPG[/thumb]
Thousands of people march down Hollywood Blvd.
[/QUOTE]
Does anyone have the actual numbers who turned up at the US rallies?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Does anyone have the actual numbers who turned up at the US rallies?
[/QUOTE]
Estimated 150 rallies across US, with largest in NYC. Organizers of the New York rally, estimated the crowd at anywhere from 375,000 to 500,000. NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly said about 100,000 people were in the crowd, which stretched 20 blocks deep and spanned three avenues.
In Los Angeles, marchers who filled Hollywood Boulevard from curb to curb for four blocks. Organizers estimated the crowd at 100,000; police put it at 30,000.
Thanks for that info 5Abi. What has surprised many including the organisers is not just the sheer level of numbers, but the unprecedented displays of unity across the world. Especially in ethnically divided places like Bosnia, Cyprus and Israel/PalestineThis article describes this:-
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=378750
**Groundswell of dissent encircles the globe
From Auckland to Amsterdam, from Rio to Rome, millions of citizens poured on to the streets to make their voices heard**
Millions of people around the world poured on to the streets of their towns and cities yesterday to protest against the prospect of a US-led war on Iraq. The worldwide tidal wave of protest began in New Zealand and rolled around the globe, gathering, as it went, momentum, enthusiasm and a sense of being part of a universal movement. The largest turnout was in Rome, where organisers claimed an attendance of three million. By the end of the weekend, demonstrations will have been held in more than 600 places from Auckland to Iceland, and San Francisco to South Korea. In Auckland, marchers cheered as a plane flew overhead trailing a giant banner which read: “No War, Peace Now”. In Australia, where 150,000 had demonstrated in Melbourne the day before, 16,000 activists marched in Canberra, 10,000 in Perth, and 15,000 in Newcastle, north of Sydney.
There were further marches in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India, East Timor, Pakistan, Taipei, Hong Kong, Kazakhstan, Singapore, South Korea and Japan. Some of those involved were experienced veterans of protest, but many were taking their first uncertain steps on a protest march. Mariko Aoyama, who described herself as a Tokyo housewife, said: “What the United States is doing now is wrong. We are on the brink of World War Three.” The only trouble was in Athens, where several hundred anarchist protesters broke away from the tens of thousands on the main rally, smashed windows, threw a gasoline bomb at a news office and overturned a car. Riot police cordoned off the city’s US embassy. In South Africa, thousands marched in Cape Town and Johannesburg, where Ivan Abrahams, a Methodist minister, said: “We are saying to Bush, you are not the saviour of the world, and we will not bow down to you.” In the Middle East the protests were more muted, but even so, in Damascus 200,000 marched through the streets. In Baghdad, the crowds were strongly encouraged by the extensive military presence around the demonstration. “At times the fervour was almost messianic: as if in a kind of ritualistic tribal worship,” Independent on Sunday reporter James McGowan observed.
Europe’s demonstrations began in sub-zero temperatures in Russia and in Kiev in the Ukraine, and spread, via Berlin, to dozens of cities across the continent, including Amsterdam, Budapest, Lyon, Marseilles, Sofia, Brussels, Stuttgart, Toulouse, Thessaloniki, Warsaw, Bern, Paris and Copenhagen.
In Mostar, Bosnia, Muslims and Croats united for an anti-war protest, the first such cross-community action in seven years in a place where ethnic divisions still remain strong. And in Cyprus, Turks and Greeks marched together, briefly blocking a runway at a British airbase. In Tel Aviv, too, usual conflicts were forgotten as Israelis and Palestinians marched side by side against a war.
In Rome, a vast, dazzlingly colourful tide of people estimated by the organisers to number three million swamped the city yesterday afternoon, practically encircling the ancient heart and uniting monks and nuns, communists and anarchists and hundreds of thousands of ordinary Italians in protest against the policies of Bush and Blair. “Stop the war” read a huge banner on the stage at march’s conclusion on Piazza San Giovanni above a blow-up of Picasso’s Guernica. Air-raid sirens wailed above Rome’s streets in a reminder of the war fears agitating this country which today has a Muslim population approaching one million. One reason for the massive numbers was the strong support given by the Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, to the American line. But the Vatican’s outspoken opposition to the war has sent tremors through Berlusconi’s Forza Italia party.
In Berlin, the biggest peace demonstration seen by Germany for 20 years brought much of the capital to a standstill. More than 350,000 people – more than three times as many as organisers had expected – took part in an event which culminated in a mass rally at Berlin’s victory column, near the Brandenburg Gate.
In France up to 400,000 people, many carrying posters denouncing US President Bush as a “warmonger” and chanting anti-American slogans, marched through Paris and 50 other cities. Gerald Lenoir, 41, of Berkley, California, said he came to Paris, where 100,000 marched, specifically to demonstrate alongside the French. “I am here to protest my government’s aggression against Iraq,” he said. “Iraq does not pose a security threat to the States and there are no links with al-Qa’ida.” As night fell in London, no fewer than 15 marches were underway in Brazil, nearly a million were demonstrating in Madrid, and an expected 100,000-plus were beginning to assemble in New York.
Why only Europe? Most of US people are also against starting war without fully exhausting all other options. People are being a little kind to Bush right now but if he does any more stupid speeches and take any precipitary action, he is going become very unpopular.
What worries me is that his cronies Chainy and Rummy are unpatriotic fellows who won't mind stooping down to any extent. I don't think they even care about re-election. But Bush cares about re-election and so hopefully wiser counsel will prevail.
Colin Powell has been so ineefective! Condi Rice doesn't have a real job.
What a bunch of jokers!
If events continue as they are, and the diplomatic deadlock continues, Tony Blair will have to choose to go it alone with Bush and then Mr Blair may end up as a PM without a party](http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/alan_watkins/story.jsp?story=378670)
Its fantastic seeing people from every creed, colour, religion and political affiliation gathering in their thousands in the US to march against War. It sends a powerful message to the pro-war camp. :k:
not just Blair I am telling you! Bush will also be left without support! the bloody fools in the US senate are spending day after day filibustering the Estrada nomination while all this is going on! I really wish we can impeach Chainy, Rumsfeld and a bunch of useless democrat and republican senators! Wake up America! the mediocrity in the Exec and Senate are choking us!