I can understand the logic of Lajawab etc, who do not want to associate, patronize, condone or even appear to codone homosexual behavior in light of strict prohibition of homosexuality in Islam. Although parts of hands-off approach may appear questionable and incompatible with the concept of dawa'ah and compassion, however, thats a personal choice.
However, if you focus solely on financial burden of homosexuals on medical and insurance industry, then its a slippery slope. Smokers, as someone pointed out, are far worse contributors in getting insurance rates up for all of us. Does it mean, that we should hate smokers with a passion too, to an extent of not even communicating with them or listening to them in compassion? I am sure Kaleem will disagree because he pays his own insurance, but the point was that many uninsured smokers are out there, putting a drain on Medicare and other government-funded medical programs, increasing our tax rates.
Coming back to Lajawab, while I think his position may appear laughable or contrary to common sense at least initially. At least he is upfront and only rants on online discussion forums. We hear so many cases on the media where blind hatred for homosexuals lead people to violence and they end up killing gays and lesbians. So while Lajawab is certainly not alone in his hatred, as long as his contempt is limited to posts on GS, he is not in the same league as some others. Which, I guess, is good news for Lajawab and those like him. Thank Allah for small mercies.
I guess its more a case of “handbag large enough”, after-all one in ten men is said to be gay. Something ridiculous like 1 in 5 women have homosexual tendencies. Kiss kiss ko marrai baichara
There are a good many of us who don't want to adopt the patronizing "hate the sin, love the sinner" line. It's bogus, and quite frankly nobody buys it.
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However, if you focus solely on financial burden of homosexuals on medical and insurance industry, then its a slippery slope.
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It's not so much of a burden emerging from homosexual acts, but rather the slippery slope of recognizing n-way unions of any kind, or even definitions of family that don't conform to Western norms. Case and point: I'd like my work to cover medical for my parents. Not going to happen. But then, while we're redefining what a family is...why not?
Fact is, we can't afford to go down that slippery slope. So as far as I'm concerned, it's status quo or all the way baby...anything less is unfair. You see, that quickly becomes an expensive proposition.
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Coming back to Lajawab, while I think his position may appear laughable or contrary to common sense at least initially.
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How so? It's honest...if anything, that's laudable.
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We hear so many cases on the media where blind hatred for homosexuals lead people to violence and they end up killing gays and lesbians.
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Red herring, at least for those of us who live in the West...the law already covers such acts as murder. No sane person is willing to, essentially, forfeit there lives over opposition to homosexuality.
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So while Lajawab is certainly not alone in his hatred
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Hatred is a rather strong term, and connotes an emotion that results from a loss of control, or irrational frame of mind. In fact, disgust is the term that should be used...
Faisal, are you proposing that we should focus our energies on "dawah" tailored for homos? You talk about compassion, I suggest we show the compassion for innocent kids who will be subjected to "house of sin" ala two mommies and two daddys. This my friend is a crime against humanity, not only they are corrupting a young mind...they are effectively destroying the morality for at least the next generation.
I think we should focus on the "lifestyle" not a habit. Smoking is not a lifestyle, G & L definetly is a lifetsyle. Lets face the music:
1. Homos are more susceptible to HIV.
2. Homos cost over 360 million dollars in "Dont Ask Dont tell" program in military.
3. Homos want american taxpayers to foot the bill for their dangerous sexual habits.
I think its a huge leap on your part to equate Lajwab's disgust for homos to hate. Like I told the other "compassionate" wannabe, say it out loud that you do not think that Islamic tenants that prohibit or dispise homosexuality are correct and I will not argue with you any more. Anything short of that is just excuses.
As I said before, I completely understand the reasoning for not associating, or patronizing homosexuals due to the prohibition of the practice by Islam. As a personal choice, thats fine. However, just to point out, there are plenty of very good muslim preachers, who focus on even worse scums of the Earth to convert them to Islam. Its no surprise that jails are a fertile ground to convert convicts into Islam. I think the basic premise is never to lose hope in the mercy of Allah, and given Allah's will, anyone can be converted.
However, to suggest that you are not condoning homosexual behavior due to financial reasons, is very questionable. Some may say, hypocritic, considering the unflattering support for smokers who contribute much more to increase our taxes than gays. Thats why I suggest you stick to the religious grounds and lay off the murky financial argument. Religious argument, at least sounds plausible and consistent, even to the untrained eye.
ps. No one here is saying that Islamic tenants that prohibit homosexuality are incorrect. Despise? Hmmm....
Faisal, you know my basic disapproval/disgust for homo lifestyle is due to the religious reasons. As far as financial reasons are concerned, points I made are very much valid. Smoking is not a lifestyle its a habit...just like drinking is not a lifestyle its a habit....G & L is a lifestyle..... wouldn't you agree?
^ Thats a very nuanced position: life-style vs habit. Simply put, as a group smokers have caused far more to increase your taxes due to liver disease and cancer than gays have caused due to HIV and AIDS.
In any case, I am glad you agree that your basic disapproval/disgust is due to religious reasons. As I said before, the religious argument for not associating with gays, dicey as it may be, seems more credible to many readers than the financial argument.
Faisal, I know you are smarter than your comments...Pray tell me how much tax do somokers pay for each pack of smokes? Yes, that is right, we have paid more than our fair share in the tax game....so I will advise you to take a look at that slippery slope and watch out for those left field players who are hell bent on destroying humanity.
I am confident that you have paid a lot of taxes. But this whole line of reasoning is silly. Next time a guy tells you "Oh, I hate all smokers. I don't ever want to talk to them or advise them on any thing, because those schmucks have made my taxes go up, due to all the freeloading they do on my money and having cancer and all that". I am sure you can explain to him the economics of how much tax you pay per packet. Or may be you can tell him to go screw himself because he is being an idiot. :-P
Same goes for those who don't want to associate with gays because they feel gays are a financial burden.
Nope. Faisal you are missing it....If you buy a pack of smoke, you pay over $2 in taxes. That is per pack. (Thanks to a-hole Clinton). Now munshi ji do your math and tell me who is the freeloader here. And yes, the gays are a financial burden because they are not paying any more taxes for their sickening lifestyle which almost always leads them to AIDS.
I am politically incorrect in despising the lifestyle of the homosexuals…I don’t care…What am I? A Muslim…Am I Islamically correct? Yes I am…
Am I too harsh in my approach to homosexuality? Am I, as a Muslim, really turning Homos away from Islam by my staunch attitude? I don’t care…When Isa :as: chased the Usurers and bankers from the Temple of Solomon, I think he was being very unpolitically savvy…Ot how about the Holy Prophet :saw: riding into Makkah and destroying the gods of his ancestors and tribes…Was that an act of hatred? Was that driving away Pagans from the call of Islam?
Faisal bhai jaan, you profess to call yourself a Muslim…As a Muslim you have some obligations to perform and number one is to enforce the Laws of Allah :swt: not only in your life but around you as well…And that sometimes takes not so savvy approaches and sometimes butting your head against straight on like a bull…
Those people are respected in the world and remembered who have taken a stand upon something…Whether it was Rosa Parks who stood her ground by refusing to budge or whether it was Mahatma Gandhi who refused to be swayed by any show of force whatever…These were people who knew where to stop and make a stand…
For me as a Muslim, one of my stops is homosexuality…I have no savvy ways to convey my feelings about it, I just simply say it to whoever in their face what I think of it…That is my stand…There is really no politically correct way to say that you abhor homosexuality and that it is an aberration…Here, I make a stand…I may be hated for it, called intolerant or whatever…Who gives a jack…
Question is, since you profess to be a Muslim, a follower of the Prophet Mohammed :saw:, I am curious, where do you draw the line? Where do you stop to make a stand? Or in the interests of appearing politically correct and savvy you bury your faith which you profess to follow and refuse to stand for its beliefs…
I remember someone’s signature on GS, don;t remember who it was…It said, that if you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for everything else…
What a fantastic quote…Put yourself in it and judge whether you have the guts to stand up in front of the world with your beliefs…
Homosexuality is an aberration and a sickness of the mind…And your faith vehemently opposes it and there is really no sweet or apologetic way to say it…It is wrong, it is unacceptable and it’s not OK to be homosexual and a Muslim at the same time…
Your misconstruing my opposition to homosexuality as hatred for whatever reason is not new Faisal…Hate is a new title which people randomly hang on the necks of those who are supposedly ‘anti-social’ or ‘politically incorrect’…
Well, screw them…And you, with apologies, for that matter…I am a Muslim and my beliefs may or may not make you happy…And for that matter, with all due apologies, you can go suck a lemon…
