Women, Sexuality and Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I just read portions of what I thought was an extremely powerful, yet equally controversial book on the subject of women in Islam. I thought I would just provide one quote for general discussion:

“I would like to say to the young men formed in our Muslim civilization that it is highly improbable that they can value liberty - by which I mean, relating to another person as an act of free will, whether it be in bed, in erotic play, or in political debates in party cells or parliament - if they are not conscious of the political import of hatred and degradation of women in this culture.”

Fatima Mernissi, writing as, F. Sabbah (1984), Women in the Muslim Unconscious, Elmsford, NY: Permagon Press.

The book was not an attack on Islam, but rather an attack on what has become of Islam. Any comments from others?

[This message has been edited by Achtung (edited February 13, 1999).]

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Achtung,

Fatima Mernissi is a professor in Morocco University. She is author of "Women In Islam", an excellent book to read. I have read it twice. Though some of its parts, I do not agree with her e.g. mentioning of marriage of Prophet PBUH with Zainab Bint Jash who was also Prophet’s cousin. The graphic representation of her relation with Prophet was writer's imagination rather than a fact. And I hate graphic representation of events of past because they are based on biased perceptions or false emotions.

She has tried to prove in her book that women of Islam in Prophet’s time were enjoying more liberty and power than today because of lack of education and blending of culture with religion. People who later changed their religion and came to Islam in different places on earth, their brand of religion is dominated by the culture of their ancestors. Because of this, today still the Islam is considered as men dominated religion where women have very little role in authority. The writer even criticized Hadhrat Umar, according to her he was very rigid in women liberation, in fact ‘Parda’ for consorts of Prophet PBUH was introduced on account of his pursuance. She goes on criticizing Abu Hurairah (Father of Cat, he loved and always carry cats), who was considered to be one of authentic source of Hadith. In fact the famous Hadith about women that "People who delegate their affairs to women will never see prosperity" was also criticized by her. (Author) She even doubt the authenticity of that Hadith. In support of her claim, she gave a good example of Bibi Aysha, who was very intelligent and always took active part in battles and in peace time. She was an advisor to Prophet Mohammad PBUH who respected and loved her for her intelligence and thoughtfulness.

People who have unnecessarily arguing in favor Shiism and Suniism should read this book to find out the truthfulness of events which ultimately led to tragedy of Karbala.

Sincerely,

FARID M

[This message has been edited by Farid (edited February 13, 1999).]

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Assalam O Alaikum

I don't know why we people are always taking the long cut. If we want to know the status of women in Islam then i don't know why should we bothered about what Fatima Mernissi says about them if we have Quran and books of authentic ahadiths.

The reason for difference is just beause we have lost the source of knowledge i.e. Quran and Sunnah.

Assalam O Alaikum

4

I agree with Abdullah.

For most of us the standard of liberty is westernised and that is why we are complaining for most of the time that women are not free in Islam. But what that liberty has given to the western world? Has detroyed the very basic institute of society i.e. Family. You can very easily observe this destruction in Pakistan also among the families which claimed to be "liberal".

I just wanted to quote an example:
In a posh area of karachi i attended a namaz-e-janaza after regualr prayer. when the namaz-e-janaza was finished no one among the family members know what to do next and they just put the coffin at the footpath and people were scattered in different groups discussing different problems and were waiting for the welfare trust's people to come and take care of the rest.

Is this the type of liberty we need which move us away from our principles?

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Achtung…

I did not realize the fatima mernissi wrote woman in the muslim unconcious.

This is the book that compares the perception of Muslim woman, right?. Sort of like the vamp vs. virgin? It was at that time, slightly shocking for me to read (actually very). If it is the book I remember it was VERY explicit in describing how the Quranic status of woman is interpreted as placing woman on a pedestal, an inanimate object. While other literature in Muslim countries, present woman as super-sexual beings who will go wild when given the slightest opportunity. She discussed the dilemma of how woman are represented. We are at the same time both goodness, jannath at our feet mothers and wanton temptresses.

I don’t remember all the arguments. However, it did at that time resolve a lot of issues for me personally. I found it difficult to understand the contrary views of woman. I was raised with the sense that woman are respected in Islam, Prophet Mohammed SWS cherished women and their status was important to maintain. However, in our communities, there is the sense that if young girls are allowed some fragment of freedom, we will go wild.

Now about the cultural and political reasoning… well

One good Internet source is the Muslim woman’s league site…
http://www.mpac.org/mwl/pub_sexuality.html

[This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited February 14, 1999).]

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Abdullah,

Have you read the book? She has not only focused on verses from Holy Quraan but she has also referred a number Hadith. Believe me I am reading Quraan with explanation for the third time and still a number of issues linger on in my mind which are not clear to me. This book is of its own kind which some how gave few answers which I could not find in any book or from any aalim.

I am sorry to say that like Bukhari, you have a habit of condemned any thing which does not conform to your thinking. You can only comment precisely when you read the actual material. And if you differ, you give reasons for it.

Kashmirigirl,

I do not know what your are talking about. From your curt remarks indicates that you must have read some other book.

Sincerely,

FARID M

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Achtung,

The correct name of the book is "Women and Islam: An Historical and Theological Enquiry" Written by Fatima Mernissi, Professor of Sociology at the University of Rabat Morroco. She is also author of another book "Beyond the Veil and Women in Muslim Paradise". English translation of "Women and Islam" was published in 1991 by Blackwell Publishers 108, Cowley Road, Oxford 0X4 1JF U. K. It was also published in India in 1993. My apology for the error in my first post.

Sincerely,
FARID M

8

Assalam O Alaikum

Once Hazrat Bukhari RAA went to a person (may be tabieen or taba tabayeen, wallah o alam) to get a hadith of Prophet SAW but when he reached there he say the man showing something to his horse to eat and when he came near he caught him and tied him with the pole. When Bukhari RAA saw that he returned, the reason was a person who can betray an animal can betray a man also and can add a hadith which is from himself. Wallah O Alaam.

Similarly, when you said that the woman i.e. Fatima Mernissi has critisized Hazrat Umer RAA and Hazrat Abu Huraira RAA, that was enough for me not to believe in her, no matter how knowledgeable that lady was.

I just want to ask you a question, if she would have critisized Muhamed SAW, would you have favoured that lady so much. I don't think so, because of your love for Prophet SAW and a believe that he (SAW) was more knowledgeable than Fatima Mernissi. Similarly, my believe is that Hazrat Umer RAA and Hazrat Abu Huraira RAA had more knowledge than Fatima Mernissi. Otherwise believe me Wallah i did not intended anything else.

Sister Kashmirigirl
Allah SWT said in Quran

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. (al-Ahzab 59)

And

"Stay in your houses and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance and offer prayer perfectly and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger" (al-Ahzab 33).

If that fragment of freedom was not given to wives of Prophet SAW who were mothers of believers i don't know where do you or any other young muslim woman stand.

The below i have heard from someone, regardless of what it is, just try to understand the message it gives.

Who people started the worshipping idols:

There were good people among the old nations, similarly, in one nation there was a good person and when he died, Shaitan told the people that since he was such a nice person you should sometime visit his grave. When people started visiting his grave regularly, Shaitan told them to make your homes pure and to make your family safe you should have a picture of the good person, slowly slowly everybody started doing that. Then Shaitan told them since he was such a nice person why don't you make a big statue of it and put it in the center of the city so that everybody should see him and can make dua, they did that also, then he said when ever you pass by this place you much do a salam to the statue or should kiss it (whatever) and then it ended with people prostating the good man's statue.

You start with the slightest of evil and will end up with the worst.

I don't know if anybody will still ask for fragment of freedom from the religion.

Assalam O Alaikum

9

Abdullah,

I appreciate your efforts for providing good information on the religion. In fact your work is equivalent to "Tabligh", for which you will get reward from Allah.

I started my post that I do not agree with some of its parts, including what you have mentioned in your post. But she has also provided a good information quoting authentic references, which include verses from Holy Quraan and Hadith regarding status of women in Islam. She has also touched the subject of Shii and Sunni in detail quoting historical facts, which I did not know before. Believe me acquaintance of such good knowledge is not bad at all. You are than well prepared to deal with people like Bukhari.

Sincerely,

FARID M

10

Farid
I do have my own personal copy of beyond the veil by mernissi. (closet feminist that I am). I also had difficulties with her representation of Islam and analysis of beliefs.

There is a book titled Woman In the Muslim unconscious written by f. sabbah. Do to its graphic nature, I would not be surprised if she wrote it under another name. It was comparison of the depiction of woman in the quran and Arab pornographic literature. This was 6 years ago and I would be unable to give an accurate argument about the books value, thought or theories.
Achtung… where are you?

Abdullah jee

Salams

After RE-reading my post I realize that I didn’t clarify that I read the book when I was having difficulty understanding the dual view of Muslim woman in our cultures. I was 20 and that was 6 years ago. Believe me, I had many questions especially after reading such controversial literature, I went to studying Quran and hadiths, (still working on it :)) . I do know my muslim female rights. Page not found! | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

This isn’t about hijab or non-hijab or woman working outside their home. Its about the manner at which Muslim woman are treated in Muslim societies (not how Islam says they should be) but how it interpreted.

I do agree that Islam offers us protection from the dangers in our world. HOWEVER, I do want you to realize that at times the limits placed on our woman are not perceived as protection from harmful predators but society obstructing woman from their wanton selves. As if we have not enough strength to control our desires and men do. Fatimah Mernissi argues that by Islam’s allowing woman to be sexual beings ( unlike Christianity) created an atmosphere where male dominated societies needed to control in order to maintain the societal patterns. Men are allowed not only allowed freedom to exist outside our homes, they are allowed sexual freedom even if its not openly accepted. Again this is not Islam but how our Muslim societies are. OH yes, just to make sure, I AM NOT CONDONING PRE-MARITAL SEX. Just wanted to clarify.

Another example of this would be the rishta process. Islam grants woman the ultimate choice in her spouse. Yes, she has been given that “fragment of freedom” to choose her spouse. HOWEVER our cultures honors woman who have sharam and respect. The manner in which most rishta are contracted also prevent woman from exercising her rights. A good dessi girl, who is of course ALLAH fearing and obedient, will agree to any man her parents select in order to honor her parents. Freedom, therefore is in the Quran but society norms do not condone it and justified using religion. This happens in des and perdes.

I do have one further question for you, asked with respect. Granted avoiding situations that could lead to sin are good. Yes you do have a point, small lies lead to bigger lies. I know myself and know my limits. Therefore, b4 I say anything is it worth going to hell? Nope well then I don’t do it. Therefore I don’t do a lot.. laugh

My question though…. Why should fear our own capacity to be strong and resist sin? Allah draws you closer when you go to him Shaitan is only as powerful as you allow him to be.

[This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited February 15, 1999).]

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Btother Abdullah jee

One last comment, if you want to answer my last quesetion in length plese do so in another thread. I'd rather not let this thread get off the topic. Thanks

JAK

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Farid M - thanks for the references and your comments, I appreciate that. Fatima Mernissi, is as you mentioned, well versed in both the Qur'an and Hadith. This makes men a little bit uneasy. Her knowledge of Islam is very sound and she can easily debate with any religious male scholar and stand her ground.

Abdullah and JAK - thanks for your comments, they are enlightening as always. Its always nice to hear both sides of the story.

KashmiriGirl - yes I was shocked as well when I discovered that Mernissi wrote "Women in the Muslim Unconcious", the book is very controversial. The books "graphic nature" is the product of countless quotes from Islamic erotic discourse. Discourse, which is still readily available in Mosques in the Muslim world. The quotes utilized by Mernissi (Sabah) in her book are what shock the reader, they are akin to pornography. Women are depicted, as "omnisexual" beings, who cannot be satisfied sexually. They need to be controlled. What Mernissi is doing is pointing out the contradictions which exist in Muslim societies. Islamic erotic discourse is heterosexual, racialized and class based. She links erotic discourse to women's oppression, women are segregated because they are over-sexual. While the erotic discourse sexualizes women, the orthodox discourse subjagates them.

Mernissi's attack is not on Islam, as you mentioned. She believes that Islam celebrates sexual gratification and statisfaction unlike Judaism and Christianity (which merely tolerate sex), yet cultural, political, economic and social factors have determined the role of women in Muslim societies. She argues that women should be granted the right to move about more freely, a right guaranteed to them by Islam.

I think the book is still valuable and an eye opener for all Muslims to read, both men and women. Writing under pseudynm she presented controversial ideas which shock the reader, yet at the same time encourage further thought. After reading the book, most Muslim readers would struggle to come to a better understanding of the role of women in Muslim societies.

"This was 6 years ago and I would be unable to give an accurate argument about the books value, thought or theories. Achtung... where are you?"

I think your analysis of the book was very accurate. Sorry it took me so long to respond, I forgot that I even posted anything in this forum :)