So, all are welcome to contribute. However, as I am no authority on religion, I would expect people to correct/suggest and inform people/me rather than outrightly calling names…
I am not talking about the rights which we usually talk about and for which we are bashed and labeled as feminists and rebels…So, my nieighbor told his kids that they shouldn’t pester their mom. SHe works all day without whinning about it. However, she has all the rights to ask for compensation and hire more masis, which she isn’t..She is not our servant and you ought to keep that in view…We hardly hear such things coming out of desi husbands, eh (hey, i am not being sarcastic here)
Then couple of days back, I was reading Para 28 and Surah ‘Talaq’ and I found more or less the same concept in that. If a women doesn’t want to feed her child, she isn’t obliged to do so. She has all the rights not to do that if she has other means available at her disposal. And if she wants, her husband is liable to pay her for the services rendered.
Whas your take on it guys. I mean our religion has made things so easy for us , yet we don’t even talk about such issues in our patriarchal society.
( Now, we often overlook many things from our glorious Quran. As I mentioned in one of my threads that guys tend to bring up ’ sunnat’ when asking for ‘dowry’ however, they often forget about what rights their women have on them.)
Very interesting perspectives; well-stated, Lost Soul.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by lost soul: *
**Then couple of days back, I was reading Para 28 and Surah 'Talaq' and I found more or less the same concept in that. If a women doesn't want to feed her child, she isn't obliged to do so. She has all the rights not to do that if she has other means available at her disposal. And if she wants, her husband is liable to pay her for the services rendered.*
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Are you referring to the ayat from Surah Talaq - as i understand it, you are discussing about what rights women have over their male counterparts, and what 'recompense' we are entitled to for our voluntary 'services':
[quote] Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then **spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your (offspring), **give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable.
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In the above ayat, when the word 'recompense' is utilized - is it financial recompense above and beyond what the wife is NORMALLY entitled to - if she's nursing the kids, is she entitled to additional monetary support from her husband? i feel stupid for asking something so basic, but i would like to clarify this for myself before i go any further in the discussion.
Yes Nadia, I was referring to that and well, I also think that the 'recompense' entails some additional support, than what she gets otherwise. And well, for most of the services rendered there is no price for that. In my view it is just this extra work that 'is to be acknowledged'... umm .........???
what kinda answer do you want?? when the Holy Qur'an states something it's definitive.. no if's and buts and modifications or additions or wriggling out of it.
btw the verse could be this one and it stresses mutual consent:
[Shakir 2:233] And the mothers should suckle their children for two whole years for him who desires to make complete the time of suckling; and their maintenance and their clothing must be-- borne by the father according to usage; no soul shall have imposed upon it a duty but to the extent of its capacity; neither shall a mother be made to suffer harm on account of her child, nor a father on account of his child, and a similar duty (devolves) on the (father's) heir, but if both desire weaning by mutual consent and counsel, there is no blame on them, and if you wish to engage a wet-nurse for your children, there is no blame on you so long as you pay what you promised for according to usage; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah and know that Allah sees what you do.
Well, Pakistani Abroad, I am not looking for any particular answers to this. All I meant was and I will try to highlight other such factors that we often don't allude to, make references to. YOU take Quran and many of us do too as the prime source from where we derive all the principles and teachings and try to act upon what has been stated therein... however, my premise was,'What if a woman in our kind of society brings this up, where religion is infused with culture and where even the righteous invoke and highlight what goes in their favor...
I mean there is so much in favor of women too, no need to take it as an offence or get defensive about it. Your views are quite welcome but that doesn't mean that everyone who believes in what is stated in Quran would act upon it too... I mean we get to hear about Muslims keeping their women locked up in their homes but even a trivial thing as we would like to believe and take for granted as an obligation of a mother.. has been discussed and no way a man can impose his will in such matters on a women.
Well, if you don't understnd my point than its ok...that was just something I read, appreciated and tried to create a linkage with what my neighbor said to his kids...
Following are some rights, which Muslim women have!
The RIGHT and duty to acquire education.
The RIGHT to have her own independent property.
The RIGHT to work [job or business] to earn money, which she keeps it.
The RIGHT to equal reward for equal deed and/or work.
The RIGHT to express her opinion.
The RIGHT to argue and/or advocate her cause or opinion to be heard.
The RIGHT to vote since 1,421 years.
The RIGHT to provisions from her husband for all her needs and more.
The RIGHT to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.
10.The RIGHT to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply don't like him. In Islaam divorce is suppose to be last resort.
11.The RIGHT to keep all her own money. [She is not responsible for maintenance of family].
12.The RIGHT to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.
13.The RIGHT to get custody of her children in case of divorce [unless she is unable to raise them for valid reasons]
14.The RIGHT to choose husband of her choice.
15.The RIGHT to refuse a proposed and/or arranged marriage.
The RIGHT to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.
EXEMPTIONS GIVEN TO WOMEN IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE.
Women are exempt from:
a.. Fasting when they are pregnant or nursing or menstruating,
b.. Praying when menstruating or bleeding after childbirth,
c.. The obligation to attend congregational prayers in the mosque on Fridays.
d.. They are not obliged to take part as soldiers in the defense of Islam, although they are not forbidden to do so.
But under normal circumstances they are allowed to do all the things that men do.
Even when they are menstruating, on special days, like the two Eid festivals, they are still allowed to come to the Eid prayers, and menstruating women can take part in most of the actions of the Hajj pilgrimage.
Islamic laws does not requires that women should confine themselves to household duties.
Muslim women have [and are as well] headed Islamic provinces [and states as well], like Arwa bint Ahmad, who served as governor of Yemen under the Fatimid Khalifahs in the late fifth and early sixth century.
Name any other religion, political theory, or philosophy which offers such a comprehensiveness to women by giving her total control of her life and affairs ??? NONE
Name any other religion, political theory, or philosophy which offers such a comprehensiveness to women by giving her total control of her life and affairs ??? NONE
Think on this!
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Actually, I think all religions have had similar examples, except of course th catholic church, where the Pope is always a man, but I doubt, the Catholic Church is alone in that.
However, I can name many religions where in practice the women enjoy a much better comprehensiveness and control over their lives.
No offense dude but there is a big difference between what was envisaged and what is in practiced, maybe thats where the reform is needed...
you forgot the most important issue women’s education
female education receives much lower priority in Muslim countries in large part because of the way the Islamic faith has been interpreted by many influential scholars over the last several decades. This is particularly problematic since economists have recognized for sometime now that of the many determinants of economic growth and social change, none is more important than the education of women. Societies that neglect female education are condemning themselves to eternal backwardness. http://www.dawn.com/2003/11/25/op.htm#1
(hey, i am not being sarcastic here)