Do any of you what is the ruling on females praying in jama’at?
I know that if there is a gathering of men and women, then men stand in front, behind the imam, and women can pray with them in jama’at, in the rows behind.
But the question is, can women pray in jama’at, amongst themselves, if there are no men?
I am quite sure a woman can not be imam (can not lead the prayers).
Is this true?
I know many women that have their own Jamaat. It is said that praying in Jamaat is 27 times more beneficial than praying alone, and as far as I know, this has not been restricted only to men.
Women are allowed to pray behind men, you are allowed to have a jamaat if there are 2 people. This includes just having a man and a woman (brother and sister for example), the woman would stand behind the man, just behind where another man might stand.
Have you ever thought of why this is so? Well, judging by the nature of the way Allah has created men, it is probably easier to pray without any distractions!!
Getting back to the point, i'm sure it is allowed for women to have their own jamaat, i've not heard that an amir can only be a man.
but the person leading the prayer is supposed to have a beard.?
But the question is, can women pray in jama’at, amongst themselves, if there are no men?<<<<
I know its done, one women leads, ie. is the imam, but she doesn’t stand by herself ahead of everyone as its done when the imam is a man, she stands in the middle of the first line…
Hmmmio…but then again the fact that its done doesn’t necessarily justify it, i’ll try to get the reasoning,etc, on whether its allowed or not and why…inshaAllah soon
[quote]
Originally posted by nomaan:
*but the person leading the prayer is supposed to have a beard.?
*
[/quote]
Ummm what?! Thats not true.
hmm..
Women cannot conduct their own jammat.
I know it is done though, but it is not right. Women are supposed to pray solo. A woman cannot be an imam of a congregation, even if the congregation includes just women.
However, in the presence of a male imam and a male congregation, women can join in the back rows as mentioned above.
I will have to fish out the relevant references, but I know this to be true.
[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
** Ummm what?! Thats not true.
**
[/quote]
are you sure about that??
Nomaan.
I think what GFQ meant was that if you have 3 men, and none of them has a beard, it doesnt mean that they cant conduct a jamaat of their own.
However, in a group of men with mixed characteristics, the person who is chosen to lead the jamaat should be the one who knows more Quran. If you have several people who know the same amount of Quran, then you go by sunnats, as to who is fulfilling the most sunnahs. If one of them has a beard, he will have priority over the others.
Regarding women, Prophet SAW was known to have said that as for men, the bigger the congregation, the more sawab each person gets. As for women, the smaller the place where she prays, the more the sawab. The fewer the persons around her, the more her sawab.
First of all o would like to say that I am not a scholar and I can not site the proof at this moment. Secondly i pray that Allah forgive me if what I am saying is incorrect.
I have heard from a friend that women can have their own jamat but the difference is that the leader has to be in the first row as well. I mean that she can not stand in front of the first row like men do but has to stand in the row and recite the prayers.
If i am worng please do correct me with the proof from either quran or sunnah (hadith).
hmmm...eastern analog is right, I am somewhat sure that women cannot do their own Jamaat.
But ofcourse, I will have to search for references...however, it is said in the Quran that a man cannot prevent them from going to the mosque to pray in congregation if they want to. I will give the reference to that verse soon also
[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
**Nomaan.
I think what GFQ meant was that if you have 3 men, and none of them has a beard, it doesnt mean that they cant conduct a jamaat of their own.
However, in a group of men with mixed characteristics, the person who is chosen to lead the jamaat should be the one who knows more Quran. If you have several people who know the same amount of Quran, then you go by sunnats, as to who is fulfilling the most sunnahs. If one of them has a beard, he will have priority over the others.
Regarding women, Prophet SAW was known to have said that as for men, the bigger the congregation, the more sawab each person gets. As for women, the smaller the place where she prays, the more the sawab. The fewer the persons around her, the more her sawab. **
[/quote]
from what i know.. women do have their own jamaat and can have their own jamaat.. but hey have one woman leading the prayers.. but not as imaam. she stands in equality with others.. in the front row if there are more than one .. or side by side if there are only two. (i will try to post confirmation of this.. unless someone else beats me to it)
I would like confirmation of the hadith you have posted.. regarding women having more sawab the smaller the place..
in that case boot of the car may be small enough.. (just kidding .. funnier as i dont have a car)
Here u go Black Zero....from Mishkaat.
Prophet SAW said "The Salaat of women in the inner part of their house is more virtuous than the Salaat made in the general part of the house." (Mishkat)
Female congregations are termed makrooh. Females are supposed to read individual salat. There is no precedence of this practice from the times of Prophet SAW, or the times of the Khulafa-e-raashid.
[This message has been edited by Eastern Analog (edited January 06, 2001).]
EA...
Your last post was interesting. I asked another lady and she said that those women who offer prayer in jama'at where a lady is in the middle of the first row... is basically something which Hazrat Ayesha (RA) did once.
However, she said that in Hanafi madhab, this is Makrooh. And that if there are only women, then they should offer individual salat.
U suppose this is what you also said. I would definitely like someone to quote some references from Sunnah or authentic books of islamic rulings on this matter.
Thank you all for responding.
I apologise for this late response…
http://www.understanding-islam.com/rb/mb-055.htm
It is not obligatory for women to offer their prayers in congregation as opposed to men. If a woman wants to offer her prayers in congregation, she may do so. But doing so is not mandatory for her. This is particularly with reference to the five daily prayers and the Jum`ah prayers. As far as the congregation of Eid is concerned, it has been narrated in a number of sayings ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) that he directed and persuaded women to attend the Eid congrgation to the extent that even if one was passing through her menstruation cycle, she should not offer her prayers but should still attend the congregation and listen to the khutbah (sermon/address). For reference, please see Sahih Muslim, Kitab Salaat al-Eidain.
It is very unfortunate, that Muslim women are no longer encouraged to attend even the Eid congregation. In my opinion, it is extremely important that Muslims should try to facilitate the attendance of women not only in the Eid congregation, but also in the five daily prayers and the Jum`ah congregation. The present situation is a very unfortunate and a queer one, where a Muslim woman can visit every place without any hinderance except mosques. This situation needs to be corrected.
We must not forget that the correction of a man, normally results in the correction of an individual, while the correction of a woman can easily result in the correction of the whole family, because of her influence on the household. Therefore, women, in my opinion, should be encouraged and provided the opportunity to make themselves present, without any hinderance or discomfort, at all gatherings where the word of Allah is taught and propagated.
There is no specific directive of the Shari`ah that prohibits a woman from leading prayers. Therefore, we cannot say that Islam prohibits a woman from leading prayers.
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited January 07, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
**Do any of you what is the ruling on females praying in jama'at?
I know that if there is a gathering of men and women, then men stand in front, behind the imam, and women can pray with them in jama'at, in the rows behind.
But the question is, can women pray in jama'at, amongst themselves, if there are no men?
I am quite sure a woman can not be imam (can not lead the prayers).
Is this true?
**
[/quote]
dearest,
i have met with a few females who have been doing imamat even of taraveeh prayers.They do stand in the same line as other women but do recite the holy Quran.
i have asked the same question to a Phd in islamiyat from AL-aqsa university, he said go to perform HAJ or UMRAH and you will see no discrimation among sex as all stand in one line.
i saw that my self in Mecca and Madina.
the basic purpose is to offer prayers and i think god is the most mercifull and give a major considiration to NEYAT of the human who pray no matter which religion humans belong to, as all of us are created by Him.
yes women can be imams as they also have the right to islam as all men have .
Remember islam teaches Equality amongst all humans.
love your muslim brother
doctor
Hmmm…well personally I have never seen or heard about women in congregation being led by another woman.
But I am still curious, does the imam recite everything the way a normal imam does ie…loudly?
i’ve been asking the same questions for the past semester… i recently became friends with girls from my university who are pretty religious (5 times prayer, etc). we all pray behind the brothers during the respective timings of the Salat… however i used to heavily discuss with my mother the importance of women reading in Jamaat.. etc etc
upon reading info from a site, here is what i got :
Participation of Women In Congregation Salaat in Mosque
Ques: Is our Muslim women are allowed to go to Mosque for Prayers?
Ans: During the period of the Prophet of Allah (Peace be upon Him) women used to participate in five time prayers and Eidain, etc. It has been clearly mentioned in the traditions. But it was welfare age which was out of mischief. The Holy Prophet (Peace be upon Him) was alive and it was the age of divine revelation.
In spite of all that the presence of women was not preemptory nor the presence in congregation was necessary. On the contrary, the depth of their homes was termed as better than Mosque for women, as is narrated by Hadhrat Umme Salamh (Radhi Allahu Anha).
However this permission was attached with few conditions. Such as that women should not come as well decorated, with best cloths, perfumed and with sounded ornaments, rather they should come shabbily. As it is known by a narration of Ibn-e-Majah that the Prophet (Peace be upon Him) saw a woman of Maznia tribe, who was walking in the Mosque well decorated with dalliance. On that the Prophet addressed the people and said that people should prevent the women to do like that because the Bani Israel were caused and disgraced as their women started to roam in the Mosque with dalliance after wearing elegant cloths. (Sunan Ibn-e-Majah, Chapter Fitna-tun-Nisaa, page 297) It is clearly proved that women were allowed to enter in the Mosques with certain conditions as narrated above. Moreover that permission was before the mischievous period.
Accordingly in the period of Hadhrat Umar (Radhi Allahu Anhu) when the carelessness comes visible and mischief feared then Hadhrat Umar and other companions ordered the women not to come in the Mosques. This was appreciated by all the companions. (Al-Badai’; page 157 vol.1, 'Ainee, page 228 vol.3)
Similarly Hadhrat 'Aishah (Radhi Allahu Anha) felt this mischief then said “If the Prophet (Peace be upon Him) had seen that condition then he would had prevented the women to come in the Mosque as was done by the Bani Israel”. (Bukhari vol. 1 page 120) Similarly much has been said in Fiqh and traditions.
The conclusion is that as nowadays women are involved in disapproved activities, innovation in religion and fashionable hair styles and cloths which are entirely mischievous. Due to these reasons it is necessary for them to perform prayers in their homes and completely refrain themselves by going in the gathering of males.
Congregation Salaat of Women Only
Ques: Is it permissible for a woman to be an Imam, leading other ladies, during the Salaah? And if so, does the same apply to a woman as a man Imam i.e., does she say the Iqaamah?
Ans: Only women forming congregation (Jamaa’ah) for prayer is not advised to be good. It is must to avoid it.
If some woman who has learnt the Qur’an by heart and recite the whole Qur’an in Taraawih so that she may not forget it, or some other women want to perform the prayer and if the place of prayer is out of the way of people coming and going, then in this situation the woman leader of prayer (woman Imam) must stand beside the other women in the line (Saff) of Jamaa’ah rather than standing ahead of line.
Even now the women congregation for prayer would not be advisable. Therefore, it is better not to have a prayer congregation by women only.
(ref: Ash-Shaamiah; vol.1 p-566 & 588)
Istifta No. 17233
http://www.binoria.org/q&a/salaat.html#congregation
i believe this is with regard to the Hanafi school of thought.
As far as the beard is concerned:
Salaat behind a person who does not have Beard
Ques: I am unsure of some issues that we come across living here in the US where different madhaahib are being followed. Sometimes one comes to a Jamaa’at where the Salaat is already established and one sees the Imaam doesn’t have a beard or has a trimmed beard (but knows Masaa’il of Salaat and reads Qur’an well). Or even if Salaat is not yet established, they have already chosen who should lead and that person doesn’t have a full beard. What course of action should one take?
Ans: One who use to cut his beard or keeps it less than one fist, is a Faasiq (Transgressor) according to Shari’ah. To pray Salaat behind such person is Makrooh Tahreemi. Hence such person should not be appointed as Imam with authority.
However if one has to perform Salaat behind such person unwillingly then it is better to perform Salaat behind him than to perform alone. (ref: Ash-Shaamiah; vol1. p-560)
http://www.binoria.org/q&a/imam.html#beard
i hope this was helpful… May Allah forgive me for any errors I made.
-mehndi
doctor: I really appreciate your opinion. I had some opinions of my own on this topic, which I gave in the first post. But I am always aware that these could be wrong, as indeed they probably were. The idea was to get proper, authentic, references, scholarly ruling on this issue.
partypooper & mehndi: Much thanks for the rulings you provided, and the efforts you made to research this issue and post it here. Jazak Allah.
Just to answer a side question raised by prince_x. It is my understanding that the women do not recite the verses of quran in raka'at. Rather they only say aloud takbeers (Allah Akbar), Samee Allah ulaiman..., and Salam (at the end). They stand in the middle of the front row with other women, with proper saf-bandi.
[quote]
Originally posted by doctor:
i have asked the same question to a Phd in islamiyat from AL-aqsa university, he said go to perform HAJ or UMRAH and you will see no discrimation among sex as all stand in one line.
[/quote]
No they don't ...
[quote]
Originally posted by TTank:
** No they don't ...**
[/quote]
dearest,
do tell me are there different rows for men and women in mecca or madina??
well during all my visits they were in one line,male and females stand in the same row. or it is very much possible that you have been to some other place.